Research Missing DOD or DOB for League players (AFL)

[GreyCrow]

Bloody hell! That section of the book will obviously have a new look come next year's edition!

It looks as if Keith Rae is still going at least:- http://blueseum.org/Mac+Wilson
"For 10 days Carlton had two former players that were aged 100 with the other being Keith Rae who turned 100 on July 30, 2017."

I wonder if 'Mac' can still claim footballer of greatest age?

I checked a few sites for Keith Rae and agree its highly likely he is still here

 

[35Daicos]

I wonder if 'Mac' can still claim footballer of greatest age?

I checked a few sites for Keith Rae and agree its highly likely he is still here

Newton Chandler lived longer than any former player, at least according to that Blueseum article (with Wilson now the second oldest ever):-

On Wednesday, July 9, 2014, Mac Wilson reached the grand age of 100. At that time he remained the oldest former living player at both Carlton and the AFL. He died on Wednesday August 9, 2017 when aged 103 years and 32 days old. At his death he was the second oldest ever League player behind Newton Chandler who was 153 days older when he died in 1997. For 10 days Carlton had two former players that were aged 100 with the other being Keith Rae who turned 100 on July 30, 2017.

http://blueseum.org/Mac+Wilson

I don't think it's very well worded when it says "oldest former living player"! "Oldest living former player" would probably be better!

Edit: From Football Record Rd. 22 Carlton vs. Hawthorn:- Last week Carlton mourned the passing of Andrew McDonald ‘Mac’ Wilson, who played nine games for the Blues in 1943-44. Wilson, who had been the club’s and the AFL’s oldest surviving former player, died aged 103.

 

[ThePope]

Again I'm staggered that we all missed the oldest living VFL player dying. Must put Tony de Bolfo's tweet notifications back on. What was I doing in August??

 

[GreyCrow]

Thought I might spend a few lines sorting out what we know and what we can surmise with a few names. ie sort out the wheat from the chaff hopefully. I am probably going over old ground but figured it would help me get to sleep.

83 James "Jim" Reginald Morton b:25/10/1905 Nth 1927

Anyway I think I found him after looking around. It seems James is Joseph and was known as Joseph from Birth through marriage and death. Except maybe a missed reference of a Jim Morton playing for Nathalia or Cobram

Vic BDM has Jos Reg cert 9824 registered in 1906
A Joseph Reginald marries an Irene Ethel Milner in 1935
A Joseph Reginald Morton is listed in the Herald Sun as passing in 1999 with a notice by his son Harvey
http://tributes.heraldsun.com.au/archivenotice/2558152/view?random=1514643816596

BillionGraves then supply a picture of a Joseph Reginald and Irene Ethel placed by son Harvey
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Joseph-Reginald-Morton/6346570

Anyway, what say you?

 

[the croucher]

Thought I might spend a few lines sorting out what we know and what we can surmise with a few names. ie sort out the wheat from the chaff hopefully. I am probably going over old ground but figured it would help me get to sleep.

83 James "Jim" Reginald Morton b:25/10/1905 Nth 1927

Anyway I think I found him after looking around. It seems James is Joseph and was known as Joseph from Birth through marriage and death. Except maybe a missed reference of a Jim Morton playing for Nathalia or Cobram

Vic BDM has Jos Reg cert 9824 registered in 1906
A Joseph Reginald marries an Irene Ethel Milner in 1935
A Joseph Reginald Morton is listed in the Herald Sun as passing in 1999 with a notice by his son Harvey
http://tributes.heraldsun.com.au/archivenotice/2558152/view?random=1514643816596

BillionGraves then supply a picture of a Joseph Reginald and Irene Ethel placed by son Harvey
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Joseph-Reginald-Morton/6346570

Anyway, what say you?

Yes, I agree. You have found him.

When a search of Vic BDMs is made for Morton J* R* with year exact as 1906, two entries show up with same certificate number [9824 as you note] - Jos Regd....and Jas Reg ! Father is Jos Jacob and mother is Ethel May [nee Job]. Cannot find a death notice in 1944 on Trove for her, but when the father dies in 1948 his notice identifies whole family https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/22676137

We need to have the player's name altered in the official records too, because both in the family list in 1948 and in his son's tribute in the Herald Sun in 1999, the man is clearly i.d. as "Reg,"
not "Jim" or "Joe."

 

[GreyCrow]

In all the excitement over McCartney and Neeson James Kenneth McDonald was overlooked. This is another look at a name.

*James "Jim" Kenneth McDonald - Melb 1942 b: 24/6/1916 Orig club: Leongatha. Brother of Alan McDonald who played Richmond 1939-1943, and coached Richmond 1957-1960 (Rhett - I'm seeing if the Richmond Museum has a contact for the McDonald family who could assist)

No problem with the note he played for Leongatha as it as mentioned in this note on Trove http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11983314
Yet ironically that para opened up some concerns for me. The use of the word ''Leongatha boy in his first game'' doesnt that indicate someone younger than 26?

Clearance for a J McDonald of Leongatha http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article225565747

Still playing 2nds in August http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article206813126

1943 and something must have happened ie injury or move as he is touted as playing more games in 1943
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article206839604

Was listed in 2nds team end of May but by this game end of June he is nowhere http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11344567

Hmm interesting, does this change anything?? http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11334908
A permit to Richmond of a JW McDonald (Melbourne) in June 1943 ie surmising Jim/J joined his brother there?

Just a query for rbartlett , I note McDonald (no initial) plays 2nds at Richmond in 1943 and also starts 1944 in the 2nds.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11809700

In 1943 it is said that Alan McDonald plays at Richmond and Jim doesnt. So where did JW play and who was at Richmond in 1944 if Alan was serving overseas at that time. Nominal role has an Alan Joseph McDonald born of the date enlisting 1943 serving till 1946. The lack of an initial in 1943 confuses me as I would have thought the club would have indicated which of the 2 brothers were playing
ie this article says Alan played in 39,40,41 and not 43 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article22409826

Ironically this names Alan McDonald as playing 2nds but the newspaper report ( to me ) reads as if it was a drop in opportunity not an every week thing.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11359067

 

[35Daicos]

Hmm interesting, does this change anything?? http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11334908
A permit to Richmond of a JW McDonald (Melbourne) in June 1943 ie surmising Jim/J joined his brother there?

Just a query for rbartlett , I note McDonald (no initial) plays 2nds at Richmond in 1943 and also starts 1944 in the 2nds.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11809700

In 1943 it is said that Alan McDonald plays at Richmond and Jim doesnt. So where did JW play and who was at Richmond in 1944 if Alan was serving overseas at that time. Nominal role has an Alan Joseph McDonald born of the date enlisting 1943 serving till 1946. The lack of an initial in 1943 confuses me as I would have thought the club would have indicated which of the 2 brothers were playing
ie this article says Alan played in 39,40,41 and not 43 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article22409826

Ironically this names Alan McDonald as playing 2nds but the newspaper report ( to me ) reads as if it was a drop in opportunity not an every week thing.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11359067

J.W. McDonald went from Richmond to Camberwell in 1945:- https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/1090960 (3 May 1945)

This has "McDonald, wing, from Richmond" training well at Camberwell in early 1945:- https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/178596369 (11 April 1945)

I see Camberwell also had an A. McDonald playing for them in 1945:- https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204022309

Indeed the article you posted a link to:- ( https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/22409826 ) confirms Alan McDonald was at Camberwell. This makes it seem more likely that there was a connection between JW and Alan McDonald, but why is it JW?

 

[rbartlett]

Just a query for rbartlett , I note McDonald (no initial) plays 2nds at Richmond in 1943 and also starts 1944 in the 2nds.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11809700

In 1943 it is said that Alan McDonald plays at Richmond and Jim doesnt. So where did JW play and who was at Richmond in 1944 if Alan was serving overseas at that time. Nominal role has an Alan Joseph McDonald born of the date enlisting 1943 serving till 1946. The lack of an initial in 1943 confuses me as I would have thought the club would have indicated which of the 2 brothers were playing
ie this article says Alan played in 39,40,41 and not 43 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article22409826

Ironically this names Alan McDonald as playing 2nds but the newspaper report ( to me ) reads as if it was a drop in opportunity not an every week thing.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11359067

This is what the club has at the moment regarding Alan McDonald
Seniors 1939-1941, 1943
Reserves 1939-1942, 1944

Of course that may be incorrect based on subsequent research.
https://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=Alan+McDonald


My 1943 Reserves research https://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=1943+Reserves

My 1944 research indicates that J McDonald played some early Reserves games. There is also a 'McDonald' no initial, which could be Alan
https://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=1944+Reserves

Let me check the 1943 Minute Book and see if it mentions anything about Jim

 

[rbartlett]

Yes, I agree. You have found him.

When a search of Vic BDMs is made for Morton J* R* with year exact as 1906, two entries show up with same certificate number [9824 as you note] - Jos Regd....and Jas Reg ! Father is Jos Jacob and mother is Ethel May [nee Job]. Cannot find a death notice in 1944 on Trove for her, but when the father dies in 1948 his notice identifies whole family https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/22676137

We need to have the player's name altered in the official records too, because both in the family list in 1948 and in his son's tribute in the Herald Sun in 1999, the man is clearly i.d. as "Reg,"
not "Jim" or "Joe."

I've been away for a bit. Has AFL been told of this one
Rodgers said he is away til Feb so to hold off any emails to then

 

[35Daicos]

This is what the club has at the moment regarding Alan McDonald
Seniors 1939-1941, 1943
Reserves 1939-1942, 1944

Of course that may be incorrect based on subsequent research.
https://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=Alan+McDonald


My 1943 Reserves research https://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=1943+Reserves

My 1944 research indicates that J McDonald played some early Reserves games. There is also a 'McDonald' no initial, which could be Alan
https://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=1944+Reserves

Let me check the 1943 Minute Book and see if it mentions anything about Jim

I see you have a McDonald named for the first Reserves game of 1943 (but then none for a fair few rounds), so perhaps Alan McDonald played that one? JW McDonald didn't join the club until June so was possibly the one playing later in the season.

 

[GreyCrow]

49 Charles "Charlie" Herbert Jenkins b:17/6/1878 Fitz 1898

Charles is tonights search/review

Charles Herbert is listed in BDM being born 1878 to Jemima Jenkins ( father unknown) in Ca RL ( I assume Carlton) reg: 7626

There is no death of a single Jemima under Jenkins. Understanding Jemima could be a secondary name , looking for marriages we see a Mary Jane Jemima Jenkins marry Walter Fred Henry Biggs ( no not Briggs ) in 1881 reg: 1174

Looking for a death Jemima Biggs doesnt register but a Mary Ann Biggs in 1930 does , father Edward Jenkins at Ivanhoe aged 72 reg: 10053

-----------
1898
We can confirm a C Jenkins at least played at Fitzroy in 1898 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article144637566

Then again so did an E Jenkins http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article138666756 against Essendon

Both named against Essendon http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article138666616

1897
If we accept the NSW reference then we need to find the appropriate team . A best guess would be a river Murray town on either side of the border and I think this fits http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article69542642 Bethanga v Wodonga in 1897

A Jenkins plays in 1897 for Fitzroy and the assumption is its Ernie http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article144642350

Jenkins plays for Albury (NSW) against Wodonga http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article69542589

An interesting thing is Jenkins doesnt play football in the Albury/Wodonga area in 1898.

(not suggesting these players ARE C Jenkins but only offered as possibilities)

Thats where I will stop for now, if anyone has anything to add or comment please do so. Always happy to be corrected or shown other possibilities

 

[GreyCrow]

Finally found his mother , which might further a clue for Bill . http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article71777074 Louise ( Green on BDM) Jan 15 1957 in Bulawayo South Africa. No mention of Bill, only husband and sisters and brother. Of these the Brother died in 1945 and no mention of Bill. Alice Mason (sister died 1958 so no notice to see)

But its a direction

Found a Death Certificate hoping for further info but no luck. Just confirmed death date and birth in Australia to confirm one and same


If anyone can find a possible headstone : certificate states Bulawayo Cemetery is intended burial site

 

[GreyCrow]

Found a Death Certificate hoping for further info but no luck. Just confirmed death date and birth in Australia to confirm one and same
View attachment 449924

If anyone can find a possible headstone : certificate states Bulawayo Cemetery is intended burial site

I am 99% certain I have found where William F Leahy was after 1948. Have a shipping record of a William F Leahy 36 from South Africa born Australia



Line 16 , ticks all the boxes. Sailed Jan 2 1948 so any birth year would be 1911 not 1912. Lived in South Africa , nationality Australian born Melbourne. His mother lived in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe in 1948. Sadly I think he missed or escaped his mothers death by 2 weeks. I wonder if he stayed in the US or he returned to Bulawayo

 

[GreyCrow]

There is an entry at Vic BDMs for Edward Page Heffernan in 1869 #8881
parents Thomas and Mary (Minogue - search for M*g* to cover spelling variation)
Children listed as being born to those parents are registered in 1853, 1857, 1858, 1861, 1867, 1869, 1871, 1873

There is a death for a Richard Heffernan (aged 34) registered in 1904 #6277
his parents are listed as Thomas and Mary (Minogue)
The list of births noted above does not include any child named Richard.

Some family trees on Ancestry list 16 May 1869 as DOB for Richard, some abt 1870.
None that I have seen list a child named Edward.

I acknowledge there is more to do on this one, but perhaps a year of death has been found.

I would like to add the following and suggest croucher was on the right track. Searching for Edward Page Heffernan on FamilySearch with wildcards brings up a Richard Page Heffernan born 30/3/1869 and baptised 30/4/1904. Given the above death noted in 1904 it would seem ( to me ) he was baptised just before his death. ie he knew or his parents knew he was gravely ill.

Parents listed as Thomas and Mary

Name Richard Page Heffernan
Gender Male
Christening Date 30 Mar 1904
Christening Place Christ Church, South Yarra, Victoria, Australia
Birth Date 30 Apr 1869
Father's Name Thomas Heffernan
Mother's Name Mary

The issue of course is the different DOB.

 

[GreyCrow]

22 Frederick "Fred" Rowland Coulsell b:17/12/1905 Nth:1927,Ess 1931

Went to the State Library today and looked through Sands & MCdougalls ( man I want a set) and looked at a heap of names. Chose 1952 , 1954 , 1897 and 1901 and 1906

Found Fred listed as Coulsel. 11 Bondi Rd Chelsea/Bonbeach I assume. A son in trouble 1963

1965-1970 Fred Coulsel is still listed at Bondi Rd. But in 1974 FR Coulsell is on Nepean Hwy Mordialloc. At least we have narrowed it down

Marjory Susan Coulsell (m 1937 ) dies in 1980 in Prahran . The only Coulsell in the Cemetery Search for 1980 is a Gladys Maud who is buried 3/4 (which happens to be an Easter Weekend and the Age paper isnt covered. ) No prior death notice ie 2/4

Does this help?

 

[GreyCrow]

95 Raymond Paul Ross b:2/5/1900 Ess 1921

Found something that caught my eye and wanted some feedback. Now this is all speculation the only connection is the names and dates.

Raymond Paul Ross born May 1900 (relevant) to Mary Alice Ross and Unknown father

Family name ROSS Given names Raymond Paul Father's name Unknown Mother's name Mary Alice (Ross)

Place of birth HOTHAM WEST

There doesnt look to be any relevant marriages of Mary Alice to anybody to investigate.

Excluding Ross and entering Raymond Paul in Deaths only brings up an interesting coincidence.

Family name ELLIOTT Given names Raymond Paul
Father's name ELLIOTT Frederick William Mother's name Alice (Ross)

Place of birth Northcote Place of death Essendon Age 80

----------------------------

There is no corresponding Birth record for Raymond Paul Elliott in Vic BDM yet the above death notice suggests there must be.
There is no corresponding Marriage except for a Min(n)ie Ross to Fred Elliott in 1895. Yet I think that could be Jemima Minnie Elliott

Looking on deceasedsearch- GMCT site we see the interment of RP Elliott at Fawkner. Interred June 1980 (relevance) aged 80 ie May birthday celebrated

--------------

Once again this is only speculation and subject to further check.

Any thoughts?

 

[rbartlett]

Hi, I thought I'd re-bump this in the slim hope that something comes up.
The RFC club are just missing 2 former Premiership player descendants. We will be awarding posthumous life membership to these players and we are trying to find a descendant/relative to contact.
WHL has helped with the below data, but I'm still missing that final piece of the jigsaw.

Any assistance will be so appreciated. Even if I make contact with a branch of the family- I can then work my way inwards.


Royston "Roy" Duggan Quinn (18 June 1919 – 25 May 2001)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Quinn
(Royston's father was William "Billy" Quinn - a treasurer for Richmond and a Melbourne player. (He was born 27 July 1890 - 1 November 1969) http://demonwiki.org/Billy+Quinn
Now, Royston had a daughter - Roslyn Kathleen Quinn (b1954) who married Peter Anthony Thompson
They had the following children

Trent Duggan Thompson, born 27 JAN 1978
Corey Anthony Thompson, born 10 MAY 1980

Now, a google search shows an ABN registered in Mt Eliza to Corey Anthony Thompson.
I tried the C Thompson in the Whitepages living in Mt Eliza and that's not Corey.

A Trent Duggan Thompson appears in google search as operating a business trading as Auscom Electrical & Data .
I rang a number, but no response. There's a residential address of 35 Stanley St Frankston VIC 3199, but I sent a handwritten letter a month ago and no response.


John Yates “Jack” Anderson (b; 29 Oct 1908 - 25 May 1958)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Anderson_(footballer,_born_1908) (also played with North)
He died on the job as a fireman http://www.mfb.vic.gov.au/About-Us/Our-History/Honour-Roll.html
His son was a 3DB announcer. I spoke to Mal Waldron who remembers him but doesn't have any family contact.

According to WHL, At Jack's death notice it lists:
Elsie (wife)
John (son) (the 3DB announcer, is deceased, as confirmed by Mal Waldron)
Ian (son)
Lindsay
David (deceased)
, as well, Brother of Colin, and Ron.
and eldest son of Margaret and the late Frank Anderson of Traralgon.

Now I've tried a few Lindsay Anderson's but without success. The surname is so common which isnt helping.

Any assistance or leads will be so appreciated.

Rhett

 

[the croucher]

<snip>

John Yates “Jack” Anderson (b; 29 Oct 1908 - 25 May 1958)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Anderson_(footballer,_born_1908) (also played with North)
He died on the job as a fireman http://www.mfb.vic.gov.au/About-Us/Our-History/Honour-Roll.html
His son was a 3DB announcer. I spoke to Mal Waldron who remembers him but doesn't have any family contact.
<snip>
Any assistance or leads will be so appreciated.
Rhett

Rhett, I wonder if you know the DOD for the 3DB announcer.
His death notice might reveal other clues.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

<snip>
John Yates “Jack” Anderson (b; 29 Oct 1908 - 25 May 1958)
... as well, Brother of Colin, and Ron.

I've had a look at his brothers Colin and Ron - both of whom were born in Traralgon and served in WW2.

Colin was Colin Frank Roddan Anderson (4 JUL 1917 - 20 AUG 1996) m Florence Adelaide Parks (31 AUG 1917 - 8 APR 2005)

Florence's death notice is here and describes her as "Beloved wife of Colin (dec.). Loving mother of Rick and Maureen; Phyllis and Shane. Dearest Nanna of Rebecca, Jennifer and Matthew. Great Nan of Maddison, Natasha and Nikita." If anyone can trace any of these (particularly the children whom I take to be Rick and Phyllis) it may be a good lead to make contact with the family...

 

[RedmanWasHere]

I've had a look at his brothers Colin and Ron - both of whom were born in Traralgon and served in WW2.

Colin was Colin Frank Roddan Anderson (4 JUL 1917 - 20 AUG 1996) m Florence Adelaide Parks (31 AUG 1917 - 8 APR 2005)

Florence's death notice is here and describes her as "Beloved wife of Colin (dec.). Loving mother of Rick and Maureen; Phyllis and Shane. Dearest Nanna of Rebecca, Jennifer and Matthew. Great Nan of Maddison, Natasha and Nikita." If anyone can trace any of these (particularly the children whom I take to be Rick and Phyllis) it may be a good lead to make contact with the family...

Further to this, if on Facebook, Rick would be more achievable as he has the surname.

 

[rbartlett]

Email from Stephen Rodgers regarding Bill Hearn RFC 1935
"As you're aware he called himself Bill, but his correct given names were Roger Musgrove.
From memory, haven't you or the other guys sighted newspaper articles - about him in the 1930's?
I think you've seen his WW2 Nominal Roll entry.
He called himself William;
and the date of birth he gave was a year out - 4/3/13; where it should have been 4/3/14.

Still don't know any death details, which is unfortunate having such a distinctive name!
The reason I'm mentioning all this, is that in the Herald Sun recently (on March 2), there was a death notice for a Roger Hugh Hearn.

It's just pure speculation, but Col and I were wondering if this bloke could be the son of Roger Musgrove Hearn. From what the death notice says, as you can see, it seems this guy was born in 1937, at a time when R.M would have been 23, and 2 years after his Richmond stint - so, hypothetically, that seems to fit doesn't it.

Again by the War Nominal Roll, the next of kin of R.M. (William) is given as Sarah; hopefully he means that as his wife; so she would be the mother of the guy who's just died.

We could be completely on the wrong track - who knows, haha!!
But just thought I'd mention it to you, for you to contemplate."

 

[35Daicos]

Email from Stephen Rodgers regarding Bill Hearn RFC 1935
"As you're aware he called himself Bill, but his correct given names were Roger Musgrove.
From memory, haven't you or the other guys sighted newspaper articles - about him in the 1930's?
I think you've seen his WW2 Nominal Roll entry.
He called himself William;
and the date of birth he gave was a year out - 4/3/13; where it should have been 4/3/14.

Still don't know any death details, which is unfortunate having such a distinctive name!
The reason I'm mentioning all this, is that in the Herald Sun recently (on March 2), there was a death notice for a Roger Hugh Hearn.

It's just pure speculation, but Col and I were wondering if this bloke could be the son of Roger Musgrove Hearn. From what the death notice says, as you can see, it seems this guy was born in 1937, at a time when R.M would have been 23, and 2 years after his Richmond stint - so, hypothetically, that seems to fit doesn't it.

Again by the War Nominal Roll, the next of kin of R.M. (William) is given as Sarah; hopefully he means that as his wife; so she would be the mother of the guy who's just died.

We could be completely on the wrong track - who knows, haha!!
But just thought I'd mention it to you, for you to contemplate."

According to this Sarah was the mother of Roger Musgrove Hearn:
Birth Certificate

Record information
Event Birth
Event registration number 1405
Registration year 1914

Personal information
Family name HEARN
Given names Roger Musgrove
Sex Unknown
Father's name Richd Wm
Mother's name Sarah (Dempsey)
Place of birth W RIDING BUNGAREE

It looks like she died at Ballarat in 1947:
Death Certificate

Record information
Event Death
Event registration number 19645
Registration year 1947

Personal information
Family name HEARN
Given names Sarah
Sex Female
Father's name DEMPSEY James
Mother's name Annie (Hunt)
Place of birth MELBOURNE
Place of death BALLARAT
Age 69

A Richard William Hearn, who died at Heidelberg in 1974 (age 73) and appears to be the Richmond player's brother (BDM reg. # 6851) died on 19 March according to Ancestry, which may prove helpful in tracking him down. Edit: I see it says "Died prior to 1976" back a couple of pages in this thread.

 

[35Daicos]

Email from Stephen Rodgers regarding Bill Hearn RFC 1935
"As you're aware he called himself Bill, but his correct given names were Roger Musgrove.
From memory, haven't you or the other guys sighted newspaper articles - about him in the 1930's?
I think you've seen his WW2 Nominal Roll entry.
He called himself William;
and the date of birth he gave was a year out - 4/3/13; where it should have been 4/3/14.

Still don't know any death details, which is unfortunate having such a distinctive name!
The reason I'm mentioning all this, is that in the Herald Sun recently (on March 2), there was a death notice for a Roger Hugh Hearn.

It's just pure speculation, but Col and I were wondering if this bloke could be the son of Roger Musgrove Hearn. From what the death notice says, as you can see, it seems this guy was born in 1937, at a time when R.M would have been 23, and 2 years after his Richmond stint - so, hypothetically, that seems to fit doesn't it.

Again by the War Nominal Roll, the next of kin of R.M. (William) is given as Sarah; hopefully he means that as his wife; so she would be the mother of the guy who's just died.

We could be completely on the wrong track - who knows, haha!!
But just thought I'd mention it to you, for you to contemplate."

I don't think Roger Hugh Hearn can be the son of the Richmond footballer. The chap who died recently was from Drouin. According to his death notice he had sisters by the name of Shirley and Wendy. It looks like the father's name was Hugh, and Jean Ann (?) was the mother, according to this gravestone photo:

http://australiancemeteries.com.au/vic/bawbaw/drouin/HTML/hPix/h334.jpg
http://australiancemeteries.com.au/vic/bawbaw/drouin/HTML/EtoK.html

 

[35Daicos]

Email from Stephen Rodgers regarding Bill Hearn RFC 1935
"As you're aware he called himself Bill, but his correct given names were Roger Musgrove.
From memory, haven't you or the other guys sighted newspaper articles - about him in the 1930's?
I think you've seen his WW2 Nominal Roll entry.
He called himself William;
and the date of birth he gave was a year out - 4/3/13; where it should have been 4/3/14.

Still don't know any death details, which is unfortunate having such a distinctive name!
The reason I'm mentioning all this, is that in the Herald Sun recently (on March 2), there was a death notice for a Roger Hugh Hearn.

It's just pure speculation, but Col and I were wondering if this bloke could be the son of Roger Musgrove Hearn. From what the death notice says, as you can see, it seems this guy was born in 1937, at a time when R.M would have been 23, and 2 years after his Richmond stint - so, hypothetically, that seems to fit doesn't it.

Again by the War Nominal Roll, the next of kin of R.M. (William) is given as Sarah; hopefully he means that as his wife; so she would be the mother of the guy who's just died.

We could be completely on the wrong track - who knows, haha!!
But just thought I'd mention it to you, for you to contemplate."

Interesting to note that both AFL Tables and AustralianFootball.com have 4 March 1913 as the DOB:

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/B/Bill_Hearn.html
https://australianfootball.com/players/player/bill+hearn/5937

It also says/said 04-03-1913 on the Historical Statistics site Club Player Lists page for Richmond 1935, so it was changed at some stage it seems. The Encyclopedia (old edition, still waiting on the new one) does have 4 Mar 1914. As that edition of the book came out in 2014 I'd say the AFL must have amended the DOB in their records some time between when the AFL stats site "disappeared" and 2014.

For mine, this is another example of how difficult it makes it that the AFL doesn't at least have a web page where "official" changes they make to the records can be announced. The likes of AFL Tables, AustralianFootball.com and anyone that keeps such records will most likely still be using the DOB that was shown on the Historical Statistics site pages many years ago, as they aren't going to check every entry in The Encyclopedia to see if there's been any changes since the last edition came out!!

*Paul*
australianfootball

 

[rbartlett]

News from Stephen Rodgers

Something else to pass on:
the Essendon player of 1920-21
George Faulkner, is now a new man.

It wasn't the right chap, that we had in our records.

The descendants of the player, fortuitously, contacted Essendon.

He was born illegitimately under a different name.
(Of course I didn't know that, when I was looking for who could be the right bloke, in the birth records, 20 to 25 years ago!)
He eventually became George Michael Faulkner.
His correct d-o-b is 4/2/1901.
(Not 4/2/1903, as he states - as you'll see - in his WW2 Nominal Record.)
(Another add-on for Barb!!)
He later dies 25/5/1985.
The family also told us, his half-brother was Ross Faulkner of football manufacturing fame.