Remove this Banner Ad

Mitchell Johnson

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Alpha1 said:
Thats why comparing MJ and Sharma is a joke. Sharma has just turned 20 and MJ is 27, we have a world class bowling coach and yet our fast bolwers can't even get the seam up and straight. Who is India's bowling coach? He has done a great job with their bowlers even when they were in Australia.
Click to expand...
The worry is that this has happened before. It's not too hard to remember England's awesome bowling attack from 2005, swinging the ball all over the place and having our batsmen in all sorts with basically anything they bowled except for Giles' rubbish. We took their coach in Troy Cooley. How come we still can't swing it, considering England were doing the exact same thing as India are now? Sadly, I'm putting it down to talent.
 
potatomasher said:
The worry is that this has happened before. It's not too hard to remember England's awesome bowling attack from 2005, swinging the ball all over the place and having our batsmen in all sorts with basically anything they bowled except for Giles' rubbish. We took their coach in Troy Cooley. How come we still can't swing it, considering England were doing the exact same thing as India are now? Sadly, I'm putting it down to talent.
Click to expand...


I don't think it's talent I just think that MJ is not listening to the coach. And he is not willing to change, he is comfortable bowling the way he is and knows he is not under pressure of getting dumped from the team.
 
Alpha1 said:
Thats why comparing MJ and Sharma is a joke. Sharma has just turned 20 and MJ is 27, we have a world class bowling coach and yet our fast bolwers can't even get the seam up and straight. Who is India's bowling coach? He has done a great job with their bowlers even when they were in Australia.
Click to expand...

Venkatesh Prasad, I think. Funny really, because I always viewed him as a 'green-top' specialist - potent on green-tops or otherwise favourable conditions, much less so in subcontinental conditions.
 
blackhead&boil said:
not really. an established test average of 30 for a frontline bowler isn't really good enough. most bowlers will start out with a high bowling average at first, then bring it downwards as they gain experience. 30 is a good starting average, but to finish a long career at that mark isn't all that great.
Click to expand...
Yes really.

Kapil Dev 29.64
Ian Botham 28.40
Makaya Ntini 28.22
Chaminda Vaas 29.31
Brett Lee 30.45
Craig McDermott 28.63
Matthew Hoggard 30.50
Javagal Srinath 30.49
Andy Caddick 29.91
Darren Gough 28.39
Steve Harmison 31.42
Merv Hughes 28.38
Andrew Flintoff 32.21
Zaheer Khan 34.29
Geoff Lawson 30.56
Sarfraz Nawaz 32.75
Danny Morrison 34.68

Some pretty handy bowlers in that list. When you start getting to the 27's and below you start getting to some of the best bowlers of all time. Johnson certainly not a genuine gun but I find it ridiculous that people criticise a bloke for averaging 30 with the ball in test cricket. We could be picking plenty of bowlers instead of Johnson who would end up averaging more than that.
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

Carl Spackler said:
Yes really.

Kapil Dev 29.64
Ian Botham 28.40
Makaya Ntini 28.22
Chaminda Vaas 29.31
Brett Lee 30.45
Craig McDermott 28.63
Matthew Hoggard 30.50
Javagal Srinath 30.49
Andy Caddick 29.91
Darren Gough 28.39
Steve Harmison 31.42
Merv Hughes 28.38
Andrew Flintoff 32.21
Zaheer Khan 34.29
Geoff Lawson 30.56
Sarfraz Nawaz 32.75
Danny Morrison 34.68

Some pretty handy bowlers in that list. When you start getting to the 27's and below you start getting to some of the best bowlers of all time. Johnson certainly not a genuine gun but I find it ridiculous that people criticise a bloke for averaging 30 with the ball in test cricket. We could be picking plenty of bowlers instead of Johnson who would end up averaging more than that.
Click to expand...


You have to remember with Kapil he bowled mostly on Indian pitches. He was a great and very underestimated by a lot of people. Especially lots of people on there boards.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Yes really.

Kapil Dev 29.64
Ian Botham 28.40
Makaya Ntini 28.22
Chaminda Vaas 29.31
Brett Lee 30.45
Craig McDermott 28.63
Matthew Hoggard 30.50
Javagal Srinath 30.49
Andy Caddick 29.91
Darren Gough 28.39
Steve Harmison 31.42
Merv Hughes 28.38
Andrew Flintoff 32.21
Zaheer Khan 34.29
Geoff Lawson 30.56
Sarfraz Nawaz 32.75
Danny Morrison 34.68

Some pretty handy bowlers in that list. When you start getting to the 27's and below you start getting to some of the best bowlers of all time. Johnson certainly not a genuine gun but I find it ridiculous that people criticise a bloke for averaging 30 with the ball in test cricket. We could be picking plenty of bowlers instead of Johnson who would end up averaging more than that.
Click to expand...


I hate to be a nit picker, but most of those bowlers average below 30. I would also argue that a lot of those bowlers either a) were all rounders, or b) were a bit overrated/underperformed for their role.

for example, a lot of those bowlers are english, and while they may well have been englands best options at the time, english cricket hasn't exactly been kicking loads of goals over the last 15 years.

I stand by my statement that whilst averaging 30 as a bowler isn't exactly a disgraceful fail, over a long career it isn't really what you'd call "pretty ****ing good", either...
 
Pevers-Legend said:
Taking wickets and batsmen getting themselves out are two different things.

I can recount at least 3-5 of his wickets being dumb shots by the batsmen.

Johnson is the new Peter Taylor. Bowl rubbish for long enough and the batsmen will get greedy or careless.

If we continue with our current attack we will not win much. We need a changing of the guard - ala the Windies tour in 95 when McDermott went home.

Selectors have been weak for too long. He is 27 as has not done enough. He has been a project player for so long - its like he is the Mark Bolton of the Australian cricket side. We have put so much time in him, we can't give up on him.

And Brett Lee will be finished very soon. Clark is also looking like he is on the way out. This summer will be an interesting one, if nothing more thna the make up of our bowling line up.
Click to expand...

OMG

HOW ****ING THICK ARE YOU... IT DOESNT MATTER HOW THEY GET WICKETS, AT LEAST HE IS GETTING THEM. MYYYYGODDDD:mad:
 
BluesMan said:
OMG

HOW ****ING THICK ARE YOU... IT DOESNT MATTER HOW THEY GET WICKETS, AT LEAST HE IS GETTING THEM. MYYYYGODDDD:mad:
Click to expand...

What are you 5 years old?

Johnson never really has the Indian team worrying about his presence. When Sharma gets reverse swing going its intimidating for the Australian team, imagine being next in to bat and seeing the ball reverse swinging like Sharma has? It puts doubt in the in-coming batsmans mind.

Johnson has got at least 3/4 of his wickets with wide deliveries that have been slashed at or caught down the legside, hardly menancing to the Indian batsman.

It's all well and good he's taking wickets like this but it can only last for so long. Unless he can continually produce those in-swingers that bring LBW and bowleds into play, he will never be feared at Test level, which is disapointing considering the pace he can generate.
 
meh said:
What are you 5 years old?

Johnson never really has the Indian team worrying about his presence. When Sharma gets reverse swing going its intimidating for the Australian team, imagine being next in to bat and seeing the ball reverse swinging like Sharma has? It puts doubt in the in-coming batsmans mind.

Johnson has got at least 3/4 of his wickets with wide deliveries that have been slashed at or caught down the legside, hardly menancing to the Indian batsman.

It's all well and good he's taking wickets like this but it can only last for so long. Unless he can continually produce those in-swingers that bring LBW and bowleds into play, he will never be feared at Test level, which is disapointing considering the pace he can generate.
Click to expand...

Ok say jono got a five wickets but all of them were poor batting. But Lee got two great bowling wickets. What would you take?

If you have played cricket before you would know what im talking about. You just don't get it. If he is being successful for what he is doing, why criticize him. How can you sit their as an aussie fan and put down our best bowler atm. And you know no-one is perfect, he can still learn:thumbsu:

any wicket is a good wicket, because it still helps:thumbsu:
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Hopefully this is his last Test for a while. He's fast but average. Can't pressure the bats, so important in Test cricket, because he can't put 2 balls in a row anyway close to the right spot. He got 3 wickets in the last match but what for......near 150???? With Lee underdone and not suited by Indian conditions hence bowling like a dog Johnson is not stepping up. All India have to do is see off Stuart Clark, who averaged less than 2 an over from near 50 overs in a very high scoring last Test and the rest are cannon fodder.
 
Alpha1 said:
You have to remember with Kapil he bowled mostly on Indian pitches. He was a great and very underestimated by a lot of people. Especially lots of people on there boards.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? I'm saying that the guys I listed are good bowlers, despite averages near the 30's.

blackhead&boil said:
I hate to be a nit picker, but most of those bowlers average below 30. I would also argue that a lot of those bowlers either a) were all rounders, or b) were a bit overrated/underperformed for their role.
Click to expand...
Well don't be one then. One or two runs here or there in a few cases... the point remains. Only the absolute elite bowlers in test history average 25 or below. The vast majority of test match bowlers average in excess of 30, even some of the pretty handy list of 150+ test wicket takers I listed, some of whom are regarded as top quality bowlers.

If Johnson had come into the team after Lawson, Gilbert, Rackemann... we'd be raving about him. He followed McGrath. Big error on his part. Will the fact that Australia had McGrath and Warne for so long render every up and coming Australian bowler as average?
 
Gunnar Longshanks said:
I reckon Johnson could go either way.

He could develop into a world-class quick, but I just wonder how long he has to deliver.

He'll turn 27 in November. Still young enough, but he's not a kid. By now, he should be able to bowl line and length and put the ball in the right areas.

I hear all the arguments for his retention. He's a talent. He adds variety. We have to persist with younger cricketers. He's only played a handful of Tests. That's all well and good, but surely those considerations shouldn't keep him in the side indefinitely. At some point he actually has to justify his selection with performances.

I'm not a Johnson-hater. It might all click for him once he's played 15-odd Tests. I think he's shown a bit, but it's been patchy, and a lot of his Test wickets have been cheap ones or tailenders.

And it's not as though the fast bowling cupboard is bare. There are quite a few guys behind Johnson who seem pretty capable, many of whom have superior FC records:

Mitchell Johnson
Ashley Noffke
Shaun Tait
Nathan Bracken

And there are others who aren't far behind:

Doug Bollinger
Ben Hilfenhaus

If Johnson continues to blow hot and cold, nursing an average in the low 30s, surely one of these other guys deserves a crack at some stage.

Johnson may yet come good - I'm not drawing a line through him. But these other guys might well offer more. We can't continue to pick Johnson based on what he might do forever.

It will be interesting to see if Johnson's curve heads upwards over the next 12 months. Is he likely to be part of our best attack come the Ashes in 2009?

If I had to make a prediction, I would probably lean towards Johnson continuing to frustrate. That said, I am prepared for him to embarrass me.
Click to expand...

I think he has well and truly embarrassed you Gunnar.
 

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Love the way he goes about it and he is a GUN.Its good to see the bowlers standing up and doing well without there more senior bowlers around them.Its amazing wat happens when you are given a good shot at it.
 
ahhhhhh said:
You are embarrassing yourself LTD
Click to expand...

No he isn't.

I had a similar argument with Gunnar about 18 months ago when he went on a 3 page rampage telling me I was stupid and how Bracken should be in the test side ahead of Johnson.

Obiously he can't because he's banned but it's funny how all the people that shit canned him don't seem to post in Johnson threads anymore. Nothing loses respect more than people who can't admit they were wrong.
 
I voted no in the poll originally...

Credit has to goto the selectors, and Punter.

I remember howling about how Johnson was being over bowled and he sucked etc.... well They stuck with him and look how it turned out.
 
I voted 'yes' in this poll back in the day - I'm glad that I did. He's truly repaid the faith.

Now that we look back, Gunnar Longshanks' arguments seem a little silly, but that's what hindsight can do, I guess.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top Bottom