Mixed Messages

[iscah]

This year is mixed messages. On one hand the squad was undoubtedly top 4 material and at least equal to WC at the start of the season. WC had a year that will never be equalled, top 3 in terms of being favoured by umps (had an incredible +47 tally on free kicks), lowest 4 in terms of injuries, most wins by under 2 goals (5) and most wins by under 4 goals (10). If we had half that luck we would have had the extra 3 wins comfortably to make the top four.

But being the Freo way, we never get things handed on a plate and we will have to earn our top four spot when we get there. Two years ago we missed on just % from making the top 4 so it is not far away.

That is the optimistic side.

The pessimist side is that CC is not the person to take us the step of actually playing the right type of footy once we get there anyhow. I can see us making the top 4 going out early and then being told that it is part of the learning process.

Then the realy pessimistic side is that it matters sweet FA what we think as Hart and Schwab love the bloke and are cacooning themselves from the real fans views. So what is the point in even giving our opinion.

 

[Sailor]

So why do the CEO and President like him so much? Reading a number of the posts one must conclude that many of the punters don't know a lot about football (bring back Bandy, Woewoden etc) so I think that given their positions are ultimately on the line that thye have real belief in what he is doing.
Should we be so supportive?

 

[dominguez]

So why do the CEO and President like him so much? Reading a number of the posts one must conclude that many of the punters don't know a lot about football (bring back Bandy, Woewoden etc) so I think that given their positions are ultimately on the line that thye have real belief in what he is doing.
Should we be so supportive?

Connolly and Schwab have been mates for 20 years (CC made a speech at Schwab's 21st) and it is unlikely that he will sack him unless things go horrendously wrong, which with the list we have is highly unlikely. Rick Hart only took up the job of Chairman to increase his profile to sell more electrical goods. Schwab runs our football club and would rather let the club wallow in mediocrity than sack his mate, because he knows that if Connolly gets the boot then he must go aswell since he pushed so hard for the extension. Their positions aren't really on the line, which is the most frustrating part. The board and chairman aren't elected by the supporters so they are safe from a supporter base aspect. It's also highly unlikely that the WAFC will step in, unless it's costing them money and there is a mass exodus of members, which won't happen because of the passion of Fremantle supporters.

 

[Mead]

most wins by under 2 goals (5) and most wins by under 4 goals (10).

Brilliant call, very well spotted Now I'm no statistical guru, but do you think perhaps those stats and this one - 2nd most wins by more than 4 goals (8) could be at all related to this following stat- most wins (18)?

 

[Mr Q]

So what is the point in even giving our opinion.

I don't know, but when 90% of your opinion is about how "lucky" the Eagles were this year, I can see why noone at Freo would bother listening to you....

Here's a stat for you, in 2003, six of Freo's last seven wins were by....(you guessed it).... less than four goals (16, 3, 1, 23, 1, 14). Note that there were two one point wins in there as well, a bit more "luck" for the opposition, and Freo would have gone close to missing the finals again that year.

Moral of the story - in most cases the higher up the ladder you finish, the more close wins you're likely to have had.

But to help you out, in West Coast history, we've played 446 games, with 177 having results of four goals or less. We've won 91 of those, and lost 81, which means we actually win these "close" games less often than we win games overall. In the 55 games we've played decided by a goal or less, we've actually only won 20 and drawn 5. Based upon those figures, I'd think it was obvious that we were due a bit of luck eh?

 

[iscah]

Why do you even bother coming on our boards Q. It is like you need your tyres pumped all the time to get through the day.

WC have had a great run with injury, close wins and around 45 free kicks more than the opposition in 2005. Then they win a final which involved some crucial wrong decisions. They may go 20 years without that combination of good fortune so they will want to make it count.

Now go crawl under your rock or get back to your own board and stop coming here to get your air.

 

[theGav56]

There's a few posts about "luck". I think it has nothing to do with it (although WCvSyd could be a case where it does). Winning close games is not about luck. Neither is losing them. Injuries of course has an element of luck, but the whole idea of having a list of players is to cover injuries, as is the bench (partly at least). Rain coming down in the last quarter and favouring a particular team is not about luck, just as it not raining for the previous four quarters is not about luck; a team is picked to play in particular conditions. Perhaps injuries to key players on the day is influenced by luck, but equally it can be about preparation, style of play, physical pressure.

I'm a CC supporter, but can't justify that we missed finals due to "luck". We weren't good enough. No excuses. And the coach is part of the not good enough and he needs to improve. But the most improvement will come from the players, if we're lucky.

 

[Slacker]

There's a few posts about "luck". I think it has nothing to do with it .....
But the most improvement will come from the players, if we're lucky.

I'm convinced.

 

[Mutant]

This year is mixed messages. On one hand the squad was undoubtedly top 4 material and at least equal to WC at the start of the season. WC had a year that will never be equalled, top 3 in terms of being favoured by umps (had an incredible +47 tally on free kicks), lowest 4 in terms of injuries, most wins by under 2 goals (5) and most wins by under 4 goals (10). If we had half that luck we would have had the extra 3 wins comfortably to make the top four.

But being the Freo way, we never get things handed on a plate and we will have to earn our top four spot when we get there. Two years ago we missed on just % from making the top 4 so it is not far away.

That is the optimistic side.

The pessimist side is that CC is not the person to take us the step of actually playing the right type of footy once we get there anyhow. I can see us making the top 4 going out early and then being told that it is part of the learning process.

Then the realy pessimistic side is that it matters sweet FA what we think as Hart and Schwab love the bloke and are cacooning themselves from the real fans views. So what is the point in even giving our opinion.

I get sick of hearing from the dockers comments like "we have a top 4 list" " undoubtedly top 4 material and at least equal to WC"

We do not, we have not, just look where the dockers finished, time to grab some realism stop focusing on WCE and recruit to improve. We have to prove it not just pretend our list is soooo good.

 

[Slacker]

Not sure I agree mutant. Maybe we don’t have a top 4 list, but I’m pretty bloody sure we don’t have a 10th position list.

The most likely conclusion is that we have at least a 5-8 position list and they are not playing to full potential.

 

[Ripper]

We do not, we have not, just look where the dockers finished, time to grab some realism stop focusing on WCE and recruit to improve. We have to prove it not just pretend our list is soooo good.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3784903#post3784903

Please explain.

 

[Undertaker]

I get sick of hearing from the dockers comments like "we have a top 4 list.
We do not, we have not, just look where the dockers finished, time to grab some realism and recruit to improve. We have to prove it not just pretend our list is soooo good.

I could not agree more, Freo supporters are just like most other club supporters. We think our players are better than they actually are and the reality is they are not that good.
Let the coaching and the recruiting staff get on with the job of recruiting the right players to improve the squad. Hard decisions need to be made with the current list so don't get on their back when they delist your favourite player because the reality is he probably isn't good enough to improve the overall team performance.

 

[Mr Q]

Why do you even bother coming on our boards Q. It is like you need your tyres pumped all the time to get through the day.

This is *your* board? With all the posts you make about the Eagles here, I thought it was the West Coast board! My mistake!

Seriously, I'm just here for a bit of friendly banter. That's why I don't seriously bag your club, nor do I get vicious when I post here. But hey, if you can't handle it, you can always just ignore my posts.

WC have had a great run with injury, close wins and around 45 free kicks more than the opposition in 2005. Then they win a final which involved some crucial wrong decisions. They may go 20 years without that combination of good fortune so they will want to make it count.

Again with the comments on West Coast. Our injury run, or luck in close games has almost no impact on Freo's season. We haven't kept you out of the finals or anything, you did that to yourselves. Even the close game we had was only close because you were fairly accurate (12.8) and we were fairly inaccurate (12.16) during the game - although inaccuracy is a curse we've put up with for much of the season. If both teams had kicked at 50% accuracy, it would have been a 28 point margin...

Basically, if you don't want Eagles supporters commenting on your threads, stop mentioning our club every second line, you'll find it helps.

Now go crawl under your rock or get back to your own board and stop coming here to get your air.

Nah, I think I'll come back from time to time. Just to annoy you....

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

I could not agree more, Freo supporters are just like most other club supporters. We think our players are better than they actually are and the reality is they are not that good.
Let the coaching and the recruiting staff get on with the job of recruiting the right players to improve the squad. Hard decisions need to be made with the current list so don't get on their back when they delist your favourite player because the reality is he probably isn't good enough to improve the overall team performance.

With a few exceptions I find Freo people are very harsh on individual players when they are generally very good players in their own right.

Where I think Freo is not a top 4 list is that it is not a top 8 team. 9th and 10th over two seasons means we're not a top 8 team. I used the expression a while back about us being well-drilled. Rarely do we look a well-drilled, professional AFL level football team. We win games on guts and emotion not systematic play. Where our players seem to fall down, or the game plan falls down, is that the players do not execute the game plans well. That means we don't have a top 4 list.

I think CC's game plans are well thought out but we don't have a midfield that can win enough of the ball to effect any game plan. We don't have enough skilled players to give our better players a chance.

I think we have the makings of a top 4 list but are still a season or two away. Next year will require a big improvement otherwise CC is gone. Pesonally I think we will either have the big improvement which is what my heart wants, or we'll stay the same which is what my head is telling me.

 

[iscah]

This is *your* board? With all the posts you make about the Eagles here, I thought it was the West Coast board! My mistake!

Seriously, I'm just here for a bit of friendly banter. That's why I don't seriously bag your club, nor do I get vicious when I post here. But hey, if you can't handle it, you can always just ignore my posts.


Again with the comments on West Coast. Our injury run, or luck in close games has almost no impact on Freo's season. We haven't kept you out of the finals or anything, you did that to yourselves. Even the close game we had was only close because you were fairly accurate (12.8) and we were fairly inaccurate (12.16) during the game - although inaccuracy is a curse we've put up with for much of the season. If both teams had kicked at 50% accuracy, it would have been a 28 point margin...

QUOTE]



Probably a tad of research before you post would be good. The 8 extra points you had in the 1st derby match up pretty well with the 8 rushed behinds, not misses at goal.

The opinions of WC supporters matter little really, any club that does not even let their supporters on the board and treats fans as spectators rather than supporters is worth jack. I just thought I would point out that this is a Freo board and for Freo supporters. Not for WC supporters looking for a cheap thrill. If we want to bag WC for being a claytons 'football' club then it is our choice, not an invitation to join in from those who don't share the passion.

 

[iscah]

I get sick of hearing from the dockers comments like "we have a top 4 list" " undoubtedly top 4 material and at least equal to WC"

We do not, we have not, just look where the dockers finished, time to grab some realism stop focusing on WCE and recruit to improve. We have to prove it not just pretend our list is soooo good.

Who the heck do you support ?

 

[Mr Q]

Probably a tad of research before you post would be good. The 8 extra points you had in the 1st derby match up pretty well with the 8 rushed behinds, not misses at goal.

Several of which were your team running the ball over after it fell just short when they were surrounded by Eagles. Had the kick been on target in the first place, the ball wouldn't have been there to rush over. If you look around, I was probably one of the first people to point out the margin=rushed tally back when the game happened.

The opinions of WC supporters matter little really, any club that does not even let their supporters on the board and treats fans as spectators rather than supporters is worth jack.

You could also point out that its the clubs that don't have elected boards that seem to have the least numbers of problems (FYI, that's West Coast and Adelaide). When you compare the relative stablility of WC, Adelaide (or even Freo) with the bickering of the fully elected boards of most Melbourne clubs, I know which one I'd want.

Anyway, Freo only has token representation, so I don't know why you'd feel some sort of moral superiority about that....

I just thought I would point out that this is a Freo board and for Freo supporters. Not for WC supporters looking for a cheap thrill. If we want to bag WC for being a claytons 'football' club then it is our choice, not an invitation to join in from those who don't share the passion.

May I suggest www.dockerland.com if you don't like the right of reply? Just consider me as a friend that's helping you out when your misconceptions get the better of you.