MJ does it again

[Shermanator]

Geez....how does a 39 year old Mr Jordan pop 41 against my boys - Indiana in double OT and dunk on Jermaine in the clutch?!

If it was anyone else I would be pised but because it was his Airness in his farewell regular season match, I can't get too upset.

Farewell #23 and thanks for showcasing us your unbelievable career as the greatest of all time. Memories I shall tell my grandchildren about.

 

[jod23]

The man, to put it simply....is a freak. Nobody can do what he can do, he is just amazing.

53 minutes
41 points
12 rebounds
4 assists
3 steals
2 turnovers
14-26 FG
3-4 3PT
10-12 FT

What a freak. 53 minutes of game time and just 2 turnovers! 12 rebounds! Shooting over 50% from the field. 75% from behind the arc!

The best...what more can you say.

 

[Booze Hound]

Well past his best days but he can still do this.

A legend of the highest order.

Whenever anyone discusses the 'Best Ever' put him first then start talking.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by Booze Hound
Well past his best days but he can still do this.

A legend of the highest order.

Whenever anyone discusses the 'Best Ever' put him first then start talking.

Exactly!

Oh and notice how all the "Jordan Haters" disappear when something like this happens. Which is more often than they would like. Every night in his prime

 

[WoD]

i dunno how anyone who loves thwe game of basketball can hate jordan

 

[CURVE]

Originally posted by WoD
i dunno how anyone who loves thwe game of basketball can hate jordan

I don't hate Jordan, but I do dislike him. I respect him and everything he has acheived, but I still dislike the guy. My dislike is directed more towards his fans who seem blinded by his acheivements, and by some of the stupid comments they continually make, such as:

1. He is the greatest player of all time. That is subjective, because it's impossible to compare players from different era's. But to have obuse heaped your way just because you have a different opinion is poor form on their behalf.

2. He is the greatest Offensive player of all time. See above. Also every statistic points to this being untrue, yet is fans refuse to listen.

3. Chicago would have won 8 straight if Jordan didn't retire. I think Houston would beg to differ, especially the players from their second Championship who by the end of the season were playing some great basketball. The addition of Drexler made them an awfully strong outfit.

And the one that annoys me the most.
4. Chicago won their championships during the toughest era in NBA History. Again it's subjective and cannot be proven. But surely when a competition increases it number of Franchises it dilutes the quality and depth of every Franchise in the league, especially in the first 4 or 5 season when they have to adjust to the new climate.

Aaahhh... I feel better now.

 

[jerry springer]

Originally posted by DEVO
I don't hate Jordan, but I do dislike him. I respect him and everything he has acheived, but I still dislike the guy. My dislike is directed more towards his fans who seem blinded by his acheivements, and by some of the stupid comments they continually make, :
D

There is nothing wrong by being "blinded" by his acheivements as you put it.Most fans,like myself just appreciate that we are fortunate to be living in a era where Jordan has dominated and played fantastic basketball.Without looking at any of the statistics it is obvious that michael Jordan plays with a passion and a will to suceed that few in basketball(or any other sport) history have matched.

 

[CURVE]

Originally posted by jerry springer
There is nothing wrong by being "blinded" by his acheivements as you put it.Most fans,like myself just appreciate that we are fortunate to be living in a era where Jordan has dominated and played fantastic basketball.Without looking at any of the statistics it is obvious that michael Jordan plays with a passion and a will to suceed that few in basketball(or any other sport) history have matched.

I too consider myself fortunate that I was able to watch one of the greatest players in history at his peak, even if it is for team that I despise almost as much as the Knicks. I feel even more fortunate and previliged to have lived in the earlier era when an entire nation would stop to watch two of the greatest players in history battle against each other.
Micheal Jordan is an all-time great, but is no better or worse than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird. Watching Micheal Jordan play was an experience, but I enjoyed watching Magic and Bird even more, especially playing against each other.

 

[Carmelo Anthony]

How about Bulls fans sucking on MJ'S nuts still even though he convinced several free agents to stay away from Jerry Krause and the Bulls in 2000.

What a sell out.

 

[Dingster]

Originally posted by DEVO
Watching Michael Jordan play was an experience, but I enjoyed watching Magic and Bird even more, especially playing against each other.

Enjoyed watching both eras and took them on face value. It`s a shame that MJ didn`t have an equal to create a rivalry like Magic/Bird and LA/Boston.

The my **** is bigger than yours debate doesn`t interest me. All three players consistently made their teams better, lead them to championships and made the big plays. That`s good enough for me.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Dingster

The my **** is bigger than yours debate doesn`t interest me. All three players consistently made their teams better, lead them to championships and made the big plays. That`s good enough for me.

The man has a point.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by DEVO
I don't hate Jordan, but I do dislike him. I respect him and everything he has acheived, but I still dislike the guy. My dislike is directed more towards his fans who seem blinded by his acheivements, and by some of the stupid comments they continually make, such as:

How you can dislike the man because of what others say about him is beyond me.

Originally posted by DEVO
1. He is the greatest player of all time. That is subjective, because it's impossible to compare players from different era's. But to have obuse heaped your way just because you have a different opinion is poor form on their behalf.

It is subjective but to be honest I think every basketball fan knows deep down that Michael Jordan is the greatest the game has ever seen. He doesnt own every record, he hasnt won the most titles but the way he played, the way he dominated and his will to win....nobody could beat him in his prime, nobody could even touch him.

Originally posted by DEVO
2. He is the greatest Offensive player of all time. See above. Also every statistic points to this being untrue, yet is fans refuse to listen.

Your argument here is of course Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt played in a completely different era and the things he accomplished back then just dont happen in today's game. Even MJ couldnt average 50ppg in a season or score 100 points in a game. But that doesnt change the fact that MJ is the best offensive force you will ever see. Not only could he score from anywhere and do anything, he most importantly would score when it mattered.

Originally posted by DEVO
3. Chicago would have won 8 straight if Jordan didn't retire. I think Houston would beg to differ, especially the players from their second Championship who by the end of the season were playing some great basketball. The addition of Drexler made them an awfully strong outfit.

Oh come on.... Houston were good but certainly no competition for MJ and his Bulls. Had Jordan not retired he would easily have rolled on to 8 straight. A lot of people say Jordan never had to beat a great center to win a championship. This is crap, every championship he ever won, he had to go through one of the greatest centres the game has ever seen. Ewing and his Knicks. Oh and on Drexler, he was very much in decline then, still good but not the player he was when he dueled with MJ in 92.

Jordan's Bulls would have made mince meat of Houston.

Originally posted by DEVO
And the one that annoys me the most.
4. Chicago won their championships during the toughest era in NBA History. Again it's subjective and cannot be proven. But surely when a competition increases it number of Franchises it dilutes the quality and depth of every Franchise in the league, especially in the first 4 or 5 season when they have to adjust to the new climate.

Aaahhh... I feel better now.

The toughest era was certainly the 80's and 90's. It started in the 80's with this amazing influx of talent which continued throughout the 90's. All the great players who came into the league in the 80's played throughout the 90's making it just as difficult to win a championship from year to year. But lets be honest here, winning a championship in any year is incredibly difficult. Each is worth it's weight in gold. MJ just happened to get 6.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by Carmelo Anthony
How about Bulls fans sucking on MJ'S nuts still even though he convinced several free agents to stay away from Jerry Krause and the Bulls in 2000.

What a sell out.

As much as I love the Bulls...you cant blame MJ for warning guy's to avoid the hell that is Jerry Krause. What a **** that guy is, the quicker he leaves Chicago, the better the franchise will get.

 

[Carmelo Anthony]

Originally posted by jod23
As much as I love the Bulls...you cant blame MJ for warning guy's to avoid the hell that is Jerry Krause. What a **** that guy is, the quicker he leaves Chicago, the better the franchise will get.

Jod you are a ********, and you show your not a Bulls fan.

 

[WoD]

i agree with the fact jerry krause is a ****
absolutely shocking

neways with the chamberlain argument he played in much easier times, ok he played against russell and the likes, but it was very rare for the centre to be double teamed, imagine how much shaq would score if he wasnt double teamed..... yeh exactly

theres no doubt chamberlain would average 30 and 15 nowdays because of his athleticism, and his passing abilities were rivalled by no other centre in history, he did lead the league in assists one season, but jordan is the greatest player in history and the greatest offensive force in history

 

[WoD]

Originally posted by Carmelo Anthony
Jod you are a ********, and you show your not a Bulls fan.

u dont agree with that?
that shows u have no idea wot jerry krause has done to the bulls

 

[Carmelo Anthony]

I know why Jordan would hate Krause, I mean

- He did recruit players to play around him
- He gave him $35 million for his last season
- The statue

People that said MJ was underpaid... well Krause (Yes Jerry Krause) told MJ before he signed the contract that in a couple of years the contract would be outdated, Jordan still signed it..

Pippen hates Krause because of the long term contract. Pippen once again was aware the contract would be un-negotiable, and that it would be a poor deal in a few years. He also bitched and moaned because the Bulls were offering Kukoc alot of money. Didnt Krause help Pippen get his huge contract when he left in a sign and trade??

------------------

I dont care what any of you people think about Krause breaking up the dynasty. It was the end for that team, and it was time to rebuild a new great team. Even Pippen stated in a recent interview before the Portland @ Chicago game that the team had been burnt out, and had to go its seperate ways.

The Bulls mightve won 1 more title, but would leave them dead for over a decade. Krause and Reinsdorf decided its time to start again. The Bulls right now are an above average team, and will be playoff certainties next year.

---------------------

The Bulls have gone through the theory "Theres nothing worst than Mediocrity". Sure the Bulls could make the 7th or 8th seed this year (through trades), but unlike the Wizards, they arent cheating rebuilding. Why take shortcuts, lower your picks and end up in stage 1 again when the oldies retire or begin to fade.
----------------------

Jerry Krause built the dynasty, he broke it up, and now he is starting a new one. 2 time GM of the year, one of the best talent scouts in the game of Basketball. If you dislike Krause, its only because you dont have any idea what hes done for the great franchise known as the Chicago Bulls.

 

[jod23]

I have read an awful lot about the Chicago Bulls (Ive read like every book that was ever written about them) and there Dynasty and all I ever read paints a real nasty picture for Jerry Krause.

 

[WoD]

theres no doubt he built the dynasty, and theres no doubt the dynasty would of finished with him there or not, but the only problem is he left it one year too late to call an end to it, if he had finished it a year earlier they could of got someone at least half decent for pippen, and the bulls mite be in the playoffs this season, instead of the usual oh next year when they get another top 5 pick he will push them to greater things
same story every year

 

[Dingster]

Jerry Krause is to the NBA what Greame McMahon is to the AFL...arrogant pricks...

 

[Carmelo Anthony]

Originally posted by WoD
theres no doubt he built the dynasty, and theres no doubt the dynasty would of finished with him there or not, but the only problem is he left it one year too late to call an end to it, if he had finished it a year earlier they could of got someone at least half decent for pippen, and the bulls mite be in the playoffs this season, instead of the usual oh next year when they get another top 5 pick he will push them to greater things
same story every year

Krause wanted to trade Pippen to Boston prior to the 1997 draft for picks 3 and 6. And he wouldve drafted Tracy McGrady and Ron Mercer. But Jordan stepped in with his whinging and saying he would retire if Pippen was traded. So the trade was called off.

The Bulls wont have a top 5 pick this season, and the only thing thats holding them back from being a solid team is inexperience.

Theyve beaten some bery good teams this year, and have lost to bad teams. Inconsistency comes with youth.

 

[WoD]

jordan doesnt run the team
and it didnt matter if jordan retired neways, the dynasty would of been over no matter what

how do you know the bulls wont get a top 5 pick? its a lottery remember

 

[Carmelo Anthony]

Jordan had a say in what happened in Chicago. It was Jordans team.

And unless the Bulls get extremely lucky.. they wont be getting a top 3 pick.. and it wont be top 5 because they have too many wins

 

[CURVE]

Originally posted by jod23
Your argument here is of course Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt played in a completely different era and the things he accomplished back then just dont happen in today's game. Even MJ couldnt average 50ppg in a season or score 100 points in a game. But that doesnt change the fact that MJ is the best offensive force you will ever see. Not only could he score from anywhere and do anything, he most importantly would score when it mattered.

A couple of season ago an NBA journalist wrote an article stating that to find the true offense supremo, you needed to add a person points per game, with his assists per game. Multiply his assists by two to get the true points value to each team. There is a great deal of merit to this, as offense is more than just scoring, it's also a person's ability to create easy points for your team mates. Anyway using his theory, the top ten offensive players (at the end last season) are:

10. Rick Barry 23.2ppg/5.1apg - 33.4
9. John Stockton 13.2ppg/10.7apg - 34.6
8. Elgin Baylor 27.4ppg/4.3apg - 36.0
7. Larry Bird 24.3ppg/6.3apg - 36.9
6. Isiah Thomas 19.2ppg/9.3apg - 37.8
5. Wilt Chamberlain 30.1ppg/4.4apg - 38.9
4. Jerry West 27ppg/6.7apg - 40.4
3. Micheal Jordan - 31ppg/5.4apg - 41.8
2. Magic Johnson - 19.5ppg/11.2apg - 41.9
1. Oscar Robertson - 25.7ppg/8.9apg - 43.5

It's a shame I can't find the article, because it was very interesting.

 

[Portmanteau]

Originally posted by DEVO
A couple of season ago an NBA journalist wrote an article stating that to find the true offense supremo, you needed to add a person points per game, with his assists per game. Multiply his assists by two to get the true points value to each team. There is a great deal of merit to this, as offense is more than just scoring, it's also a person's ability to create easy points for your team mates. Anyway using his theory, the top ten offensive players (at the end last season) are:

10. Rick Barry 23.2ppg/5.1apg - 33.4
9. John Stockton 13.2ppg/10.7apg - 34.6
8. Elgin Baylor 27.4ppg/4.3apg - 36.0
7. Larry Bird 24.3ppg/6.3apg - 36.9
6. Isiah Thomas 19.2ppg/9.3apg - 37.8
5. Wilt Chamberlain 30.1ppg/4.4apg - 38.9
4. Jerry West 27ppg/6.7apg - 40.4
3. Micheal Jordan - 31ppg/5.4apg - 41.8
2. Magic Johnson - 19.5ppg/11.2apg - 41.9
1. Oscar Robertson - 25.7ppg/8.9apg - 43.5

It's a shame I can't find the article, because it was very interesting.

I find such a system of ranking a little unrealistic, simply due to the fact its completely biased towards guards, with Chamberlain the obvious exception. Basically, this tells me that points and assists are the only worthwhile components of offense, not picks, dummy cuts etc. etc. I'm not saying these are the only factors of an offensive player, but surely they deserve some weight. Offense is not simply scoring and passing, but moving without the ball and shiznit.