Moon landing

[Ochre]

Has anyone involved in the "conspiracy" ever come out and said it was faked? Surely after all this time, at least one person would've said something? Especially seeing as there were 10,000s working on the moon landing for NASA.

Mythbusters episode on this is quite good too. http://mythbustersresults.com/nasa-moon-landing

 

[Silent Alarm]

Politics have so many egos attached. How could this seriously stay quiet? It's pretty hard to keep things a secret, when you deal with something as huge as this. It'd be political dynamite to accuse the opposition party of such a hoax. And additionally, there's a plethora of well explained, logical, and coherent facts that back it up – we landed on the moon.

And I say this as someone who, for a while, was taken aback by the conspiracy theories and thought they were well argued.

 

[Tex_21]

It was a fake because mantis' son said it was. What more evidence do you need people?

 

[Ed_Gein]

IIRC Mythbusters did a whole episode on the moon landing a while back and everything they tested turned out to be true.


Not saying that is the be all and end all of the argument but still...

Yeah i think one of the photos they tried to bust is actually the one i posted on the previous page that bumped the thread. The weirdest thing about it is, that they doctored the set and ended up getting it to look a lot like the photo in question because they used a massive stage light to emphasize the shadowing. Doesn't that sort of add fuel to the conspiracy theorists fire? If it was filmed on the moon, wouldn't the distance of the sun have a negligable effect on the direction of the shadows given the distance away from the moon?

 

[neroblack]

At least we aren't living in denial lol.

Seriously tho, the thing is, there's a lot of credible evidence on both sides. By that I mean that still holds up, no rock solid debunking for one, and no rock solid smoking gun. But I lean towards fake.

Some people's brains explode at the thought the moon landing was faked, their whole 30 years of living by that belief far too hard to deal with the notion it was a lie.

There is not a lot of credible evidence on both sides. Every theory listed by people who think it was fake has been explained. You'll be able to go and find the answers very easily. Go and read them.

 

[hayes]

One thing I've learnt over the years is Americans are absolutely obsessed with conspiracy theories. Nothing can ever be as simple as it seems. There's the moon landing, 9/11, batman theatre shooting, even something like Jim Morrison's death has a conspiracy theory. Looking forward to hearing the Mars probe conspiracy theory.

Don't get sucked in.

 

[Tex_21]

mantis

 

[Silent Alarm]

Yeah i think one of the photos they tried to bust is actually the one i posted on the previous page that bumped the thread. The weirdest thing about it is, that they doctored the set and ended up getting it to look a lot like the photo in question because they used a massive stage light to emphasize the shadowing. Doesn't that sort of add fuel to the conspiracy theorists fire? If it was filmed on the moon, wouldn't the distance of the sun have a negligable effect on the direction of the shadows given the distance away from the moon?

Film sets made Russel Crowe fight, rather than slap and throw phones. Does that make Rusty a fighter?

 

[Ochre]

Yeah i think one of the photos they tried to bust is actually the one i posted on the previous page that bumped the thread. The weirdest thing about it is, that they doctored the set and ended up getting it to look a lot like the photo in question because they used a massive stage light to emphasize the shadowing. Doesn't that sort of add fuel to the conspiracy theorists fire? If it was filmed on the moon, wouldn't the distance of the sun have a negligable effect on the direction of the shadows given the distance away from the moon?

1. They doctored the set because the moon itself isnt a flat surface with a few rocks on it. They distance of the sun did have a negligible effect, initially the shadows were parallel, it was the topography of the moon/Mythbusters set that caused the different directions.

2. The one singular stage light was the scale representation of the sun.

 

[Ochre]

1. They doctored the set because the moon itself isnt a flat surface with a few rocks on it. They distance of the sun did have a negligible effect, initially the shadows were parallel, it was the topography of the moon/Mythbusters set that caused the different directions.

2. The one singular stage light was the scale representation of the sun.

Here's the clip.

 

[exe ex machina]

All I reckon is like what I said before succinctly...."just find it hard to believe"

There are certain events that I find hard to believe as per the 'official story'....Kennedy assassinations, Moon landing, 9/11, to name a few big ones.

The very fact we have big conspiracies proven like MKULTRA, WMD, Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin, Operation Northwoods, WW1, the Reichstag fire, to name just a few, shows to me the power-mongers of this world have always been involved in a lot of 'world events', pulling strings, manipulating and fabricating history, and it goes back hundreds of years thru the Dark Ages, Romans, etc, as a key facet of those in power.

 

[Tex_21]

... Pearl Harbor ...

Please tell me you're not claiming the conspiracy that the US deliberately allowed the Japanese to bomb Pearl Harbour has been proven?

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Nope. But one thing i think is certain - there are people that believe in the moon landing and there are people that don't. You won't find anyone who sits on the fence with it. I don't eat up every bit of video the conspiracy theorists have put together. Maybe some of them have doctored the videos to suit their argument.

But in any case i don't see the problem with questioning it either. I mean to me, it really does look like in some of the videos (in particular the 2 i posted above) that they are suspending on some sort of cable support. Then there is the surface temperature, van allen belt, the technology on board the apollo 11 is no more powerful than a calculator etc etc....

Except all the EVa's were conducted just after the Luna dawn and so avoided the really extreme temps.
van Allen himself worked out that the amount of radiation absorbed as they passed through the belt and said it wasn't anywhere near lethal.

As for the computers you realise A) they were dedicated systems with very little in the way of multi-tasking which is the main drain on hardware.

B) the astronauts constantly made corrections using of all things a sexton because the computer was often off on calculating its position. at the time getting a manned rocket to the moon was actually easier (albeit more expensive) then sending a drone for this very reason.

 

[exe ex machina]

The US high command knew well beforehand of the Japanese attack. That's proven. There's a lot more evidence etc, but that alone proves it.

 

[NitroFan]

All I reckon is like what I said before succinctly...."just find it hard to believe"

why? simply because the government says it happened?

 

[exe ex machina]

I explained why in that same post.

 

[Ochre]

I explained why in that same post.

So because some things were conspiracies, basically everything else must be a conspiracy?

 

[Tex_21]

The US high command knew well beforehand of the Japanese attack. That's proven. There's a lot more evidence etc, but that alone proves it.

So the US High Command knew the Japanese were planning some kind of attack? Did they know it was scheduled for December 7, 1941 at whatever time? (I think I got the date right?). Knowing Japan was planning an attack is one thing. Its pretty useless info without knowing when/where.

I have no problem with people being initially sceptical on the moon landing. But half an hour's research (or even just watch the Mythbusters episode) and the conspiracy is debunked.

 

[exe ex machina]

So because some things were conspiracies, basically everything else must be a conspiracy?

Pretty much all big decisive world events, world altering events, are all acts manipulated and fabricated by those in power, (politically, religiously, financially). People fail to appreciate the entire world revolves around money and control/power. There's no smiley rainbow aspect to life whatsoever. It's all about people in power attaining more power, people without power trying to attain the power, and all revolves around money, big money. The majority of mankind are just pawns and cows. That's the reality of life. Life is all just bullshit. A movie.

 

[exe ex machina]

So the US High Command knew the Japanese were planning some kind of attack? Did they know it was scheduled for December 7, 1941 at whatever time? (I think I got the date right?). Knowing Japan was planning an attack is one thing. Its pretty useless info without knowing when/where.

I have no problem with people being initially sceptical on the moon landing. But half an hour's research (or even just watch the Mythbusters episode) and the conspiracy is debunked.

Yes, the US high command knew exactly when and where. Research this particular topic, and get back to me with info that disproves it. Because as far as I'm aware this has been outed.

 

[Tex_21]

I might look into it in a week or so. I've seen it claimed, but proven is a massive call.

There is also psychological evidence that people who believe one conspiracy theory, are significantly more likely to believe another, even when the two are not at all related, and from memory it also depends on the order in which they hear the theories (if you hear the more 'plausible' theory first, you are more likely to entertain the more 'outlandish' one)

Found the article http://kent.academia.edu/RobbieSutt..._Beliefs_in_contradictory_conspiracy_theories

 

[exe ex machina]

I might look into it in a week or so. I've seen it claimed, but proven is a massive call.

There is also psychological evidence that people who believe one conspiracy theory, are significantly more likely to believe another, even when the two are not at all related, and from memory it also depends on the order in which they hear the theories (if you hear the more 'plausible' theory first, you are more likely to entertain the more 'outlandish' one)

Found the article http://kent.academia.edu/RobbieSutt..._Beliefs_in_contradictory_conspiracy_theories

It's also true of people who disbelieve a conspiracy
They continue to "can't believe a government could do 'that' to its people" type of failure or avoidance to even genuinely consider something big could be a lie/hoax. Becomes pathological. That subconscious/unconscious sense of fearing a lot of what they believe about the world to be untrue. The word I'm looking for is specifically -- weltschmerz

 

[Tex_21]

It's also true of people who disbelieve a conspiracy
They continue to "can't believe a government could do 'that' to its people" type of failure or avoidance to even genuinely consider something big could be a lie/hoax. Becomes pathological.

Read the article. It shows that people believe even inconsistent theories (those that believed Diana faked her own death were more likely to believe she was murdered).

I don't doubt there have been conspiracies/cover-ups in the past and there will be in the future (the Reichstag fire was a great example you used earlier), just that they are rarer than claimed, particularly of the size the Moon landing would be. With regard to Pearl harbour, is there any info regarding how credible the threat was regarded as? Looking at it from a Game Theory perspective, the better strategy for Japan would always have been to leave the US out of the war as long as possible, especially considering their supply lines were already stretched at that point - if I received info on a threat, I'd certainly be checking again.

 

[exe ex machina]

I understand and agree with the article. There is certainly credence to that. Just like there is credence to the bit I edited into that post you quoted. Those are the extremes of the two sides. Not everyone falls to that extreme tho. For instance, I believe Diana was killed. No fake death. For instance, I believe Jim Morrison died of a heroin overdose, and dad (military general) wanted to cover it up (no autopsy) which obviously creates the opportunity for fake death theories/myths, like with many other stars. Etc. Tho I believe in a number of conspiracies, it doesn't mean I embrace inconsistent theories, or "want to" believe every single type of conspiracy. But a conspiracy by definition is when two parties collude to enact a crime and cover it up. There are so many of such that happens -- COVER-UPS -- on a large (and small) scale world-wide, changes the course of history, profits certain people, profits certain ends of a mean. When something big happens, people start noticing things don't add up, find inconsistencies, people doing due diligence, researching, finding evidence, etc. Often where's there's smoke there's fire. Even if powers that be do well to never see truth exposed, a lot of the time a realistic person (one who doesn't fall to either extreme) will know deep down it smells of bullshit.

 

[exe ex machina]

As for the moon landing....as i've said often, my status on it has been for a long time now -- "i just find it hard to believe". I haven't fully committed to either side. I used to believe it happened, then for a time believed it didn't, then for a time read all the stuff that debunks, but all the while there's still an uneasiness with it. I just find it hard to believe. Basically, wouldn't surprise if it was a hoax. Wouldn't be a stretch for man/science to pull off a hoax.