More Composure

[pumped]

Whilst I am pretty happy with the season overall I believe Carlton would most benefit from developing more composure within it's playing list. Even through the Pagan years the side would have spurts of brilliant play only to lose themselves totally. I beleive that our list has about 18-20 players of above average ability but only about 5 or 6 players who have elite composure.

Gibbs has developed into one of the AFL'S most composed players and along with Judd, Jamison, Betts, and I think Kruezer are the only players who I believe can be relied upon to be mentally sharp most of the time. I also beleive that Bower prior to injury was becoming very composed.

I see composed players as ones who don't panic under any circumstance but who also are determined even when there is no pressure. Basically players who are at their best no matter what the circumstance. These guys also seem to enjoy their footy more than most. I believe the rise of Geelong has been as much to do with improving their attitudes on and off field as anything else.

Calrton are developing a very handy list but in my opinion need to really look at the mental side to maximise their potential in the future. I believe that it is in the senior group where this would lift us most. Guys like Fev, Stevens, Waite and Scotland have such up sides but also seem to drop off at various stages through games. Felt in the last game that whilst Scotland and Stevo got heaps of the ball they were just not as sharp as they should be.

Also believe that we have some guys with talent like Hartlett and Setanta and even Aisake who could fill spots in the senior side if they were more composed. Also believe that if Fev and co stepped up and applied themselves like the 5 mentioned above that the whole side would improve dramatically.

 

[lily of laguna]

Whilst I am pretty happy with the season overall I believe Carlton would most benefit from developing more composure within it's playing list. Even through the Pagan years the side would have spurts of brilliant play only to lose themselves totally. I beleive that our list has about 18-20 players of above average ability but only about 5 or 6 players who have elite composure.

Gibbs has developed into one of the AFL'S most composed players and along with Judd, Jamison, Betts, and I think Kruezer are the only players who I believe can be relied upon to be mentally sharp most of the time. I also beleive that Bower prior to injury was becoming very composed.

I see composed players as ones who don't panic under any circumstance but who also are determined even when there is no pressure. Basically players who are at their best no matter what the circumstance. These guys also seem to enjoy their footy more than most. I believe the rise of Geelong has been as much to do with improving their attitudes on and off field as anything else.

Calrton are developing a very handy list but in my opinion need to really look at the mental side to maximise their potential in the future. I believe that it is in the senior group where this would lift us most. Guys like Fev, Stevens, Waite and Scotland have such up sides but also seem to drop off at various stages through games. Felt in the last game that whilst Scotland and Stevo got heaps of the ball they were just not as sharp as they should be.

Also believe that we have some guys with talent like Hartlett and Setanta and even Aisake who could fill spots in the senior side if they were more composed. Also believe that if Fev and co stepped up and applied themselves like the 5 mentioned above that the whole side would improve dramatically.

Good post Pumped.

Yes I agree we do lack composure and that can be quite telling at certain points of the game.

Composure comes from having self belief and experience on the footy field, and due to being young and also having a shocking win/loss record most of our players are as expected well down in self belief and confidence (although that is rapidly changing).

The players you highlight as being composed are either very confident in their ability (Gibbs, Kreuze, Jammo) and/or have experience in their role (Betts) and the master Judd.

Betts is an interesting player he goes missing at times but that is the lot of a crumbing FP. He probably has also been consistently played in his posiiton which would give him a clear understanding of his role and be focussed in that sense.

I believe that when we compare our list to other teams, the win/loss factor should be taken into account much more than us supporters think.

If you are used to getting beaten and fairly frequently by big margins, your self belief/confidence is going to dramatically affect your performance (obviously). Thankfully this year we are correcting the balance and should see a big rise in players composure as a result.

I am actually surprised we have bounced back as quick and have been so close to victory so often this year. It just goes to show the benefit of some real support from the coaching staff/club/members/supporters can provide. We have also lacked strong leadership on the field which with the inclusion of Judd has made such difference.

I also believe that young players especially should be given an opportunity to play without the criticism that certain players get (ducks head waiting to stones thrown). Some have been round for a few seasons but previous years have been far from ideal with coaching, win/loss record, support staff, and constant 1st round pick pressure etc....

So in short Im sure are composure will rise and then we can challenge those teams who have self belief and confidence.

 

[Salaryman]

Pumped I think you are about 2 years too late. As you actually point out, you don't think this was taken into account with our recruiting the last couple of years?

 

[HBF]

Pumped I think you are about 2 years too late. As you actually point out, you don't think this was taken into account with our recruiting the last couple of years?

Recall a conversation we had last year about a certain someone in Navy Blue about this very topic?

 

[AndyC]

Hi Guys, 1st time poster. Been reading for a while and thought it time to join your ranks. The topic of composure is interesting. It's only under severe pressure that we see how players really cope. I found the Adelaide game particularly frustrating as I don't think we should have been in that situation where we had to come back again. We should have had their measure even with Betts off the ground. It appears that once we are behind that they throw caution to the wind and believe they can win. Interested in your thoughts on this? I don't thing we'll never be a premiership side having to come from behind in Q4 to win every game. Playing 4 good quality quarters of composed footy will mean we have the chance for a flag - what will get us there are those champion players that give us the edge (which I believe we are developing).

 

[pumped]

Pumped I think you are about 2 years too late. As you actually point out, you don't think this was taken into account with our recruiting the last couple of years?

Hi Gilly,

Think it is still very relevant. Some of our recruits are showing leadership potential however my post is not just referring to who we recruit. My main point was for the club to develop the whole list in this area , especially the more experienced guys. I believe that composure on field has much to do with how secure players are as people. This is an area that would benefit the club greatly should we be able to instill the attidudes of the few solid players we have into the majority.

 

[pumped]

Hi Guys, 1st time poster. Been reading for a while and thought it time to join your ranks. The topic of composure is interesting. It's only under severe pressure that we see how players really cope. I found the Adelaide game particularly frustrating as I don't think we should have been in that situation where we had to come back again. We should have had their measure even with Betts off the ground. It appears that once we are behind that they throw caution to the wind and believe they can win. Interested in your thoughts on this? I don't thing we'll never be a premiership side having to come from behind in Q4 to win every game. Playing 4 good quality quarters of composed footy will mean we have the chance for a flag - what will get us there are those champion players that give us the edge (which I believe we are developing).

Hi Andy,

I wonder too about how free we seem to become when the game seems lost. Many of our last quarters have been a very different style of footy to what we play much of the time leading up. Also in some games we get close from a long way back and then go back to hesitant footy.

I also felt that against Adelaide we should never have been in a position to have to come from behind. If we had played composed footy right from the start they most likely wouldn't have been near us at 3/4 time.Really felt that a few of our key guys were just not sharp from the first bounce.

There are no doubts that things are improving and that we have potentially a great list. Just hope that we can potentially be as composed as we are talented.

 

[pumped]

To Lily of Laguna I think you raise some very valid points.Think Judd and Ratten have greatly helped in instilling some more confidence and discipline. Just feel that we are still less advanced in these areas than most other sides which is reflected in the wide scope of performances during individual games.

Re the players mentioned I find Betts to be a player who just seems to enjoy his footy so much. I don't necessarily see this related to mastering a position. I beleive he attacks the ball the same if he is in the fp or on the ball. I also feel his fades in and out of games are more related to playing as the crumbing forward rather than any fluctuation in attitude.

Gibbs is developing into a composure freak and the other 3 guys just seem to be very humble and solid personalities. I suspect that especially with Judd, Jamison and Kruez that their emotional stability has as much to do with their performances as does their ability.If we can develop more players with their attitudes I beleive that the whole side will develop a culture that will ensure solidity.

 

[lily of laguna]

To Lily of Laguna I think you raise some very valid points.Think Judd and Ratten have greatly helped in instilling some more confidence and discipline. Just feel that we are still less advanced in these areas than most other sides which is reflected in the wide scope of performances during individual games.

Re the players mentioned I find Betts to be a player who just seems to enjoy his footy so much. I don't necessarily see this related to mastering a position. I beleive he attacks the ball the same if he is in the fp or on the ball. I also feel his fades in and out of games are more related to playing as the crumbing forward rather than any fluctuation in attitude.

Gibbs is developing into a composure freak and the other 3 guys just seem to be very humble and solid personalities. I suspect that especially with Judd, Jamison and Kruez that their emotional stability has as much to do with their performances as does their ability.If we can develop more players with their attitudes I beleive that the whole side will develop a culture that will ensure solidity.

Yeah, Betts does seem enjoy his footy, love his work in the FP and on the ball.

I agree we seem to have less composure than most other teams, interestingly the guy who most epitomised this last year was Kennedy, unfortunately I havent seen enough of him this year to gauge where he is currently at. Any thoughts on him?

 

[pumped]

Yeah, Betts does seem enjoy his footy, love his work in the FP and on the ball.

I agree we seem to have less composure than most other teams, interestingly the guy who most epitomised this last year was Kennedy, unfortunately I havent seen enough of him this year to gauge where he is currently at. Any thoughts on him?

Feel Kennedy to be a very honest and hard working sort of player. One whose general demeanour would have been invaluable to Carlton in years to come. The sort of bloke who would just keep going no matter what. Re his time at Carlton felt he was very nervous for much of the time but in the last couple of months really started to find himself on field. Have watched him a bit at WC. Think he has played about 6 games and looked pretty good. Has been hampered by a knee injury that just doesn't seem to go away. Would love to still have him over here though.

 

[Salaryman]

Hi Gilly,

Think it is still very relevant. Some of our recruits are showing leadership potential however my post is not just referring to who we recruit. My main point was for the club to develop the whole list in this area , especially the more experienced guys. I believe that composure on field has much to do with how secure players are as people. This is an area that would benefit the club greatly should we be able to instill the attidudes of the few solid players we have into the majority.

Pumped,

Working in the field I empathise with your views, but I think you place too much emphasis on the emotional side, sure it is important for general feelings of well-being but when push comes to shove, composure and decision making tap into more "hard-wired" cognitive issues.

When I say hard-wired, humans inherently have trouble coping with complexity and like to simplify things....our brains have been hard-wired to react in certain ways and we often adopt simplification heuristics to deal with said complexity.

If we are to develop composure, IMO the model adopted should be along the Adelaide one. While I am not privy to the details of their program it is my understanding that they developed some sort of decision-making training tool/task.

Aside from some players possessing more finely tuned reactions to cope appropriately to the nuances of each unique situation (Gibbs is a perfect example), it is possible to develop and improve decision-making/composure by supplying decision makers with a greater "data bank" of experiences to draw on. This is probably best achieved in near to game pressure/drills.

Where conventional training drills potentially fall down is that players "overlearn" a reaction that they then inappropriately apply to a pressured game situation. Where the best decision makers like Gibbs excel is their ability to read a situation very quickly (jargon term is develop an accurate "mental model") and to make subtle alterations to their programmed response to one make it more appropriate for the current circumstances.

I believe Adelaide would have attempted to do this through set-up training scenarios. I think i read somewhere they even have a decision-making room I presume with video-based scenario training.

This is probably bit of a rant to some, but there is science out there that can be drawn on other than worrying about subjective feelings of general well-being .

 

[thylacine60]

Pumped,

Working in the field I empathise with your views, but I think you place too much emphasis on the emotional side, sure it is important for general feelings of well-being but when push comes to shove, composure and decision making tap into more "hard-wired" cognitive issues.

When I say hard-wired, humans inherently have trouble coping with complexity and like to simplify things....our brains have been hard-wired to react in certain ways and we often adopt simplification heuristics to deal with said complexity.

If we are to develop composure, IMO the model adopted should be along the Adelaide one. While I am not privy to the details of their program it is my understanding that they developed some sort of decision-making training tool/task.

Aside from some players possessing more finely tuned reactions to cope appropriately to the nuances of each unique situation (Gibbs is a perfect example), it is possible to develop and improve decision-making/composure by supplying decision makers with a greater "data bank" of experiences to draw on. This is probably best achieved in near to game pressure/drills.

Where conventional training drills potentially fall down is that players "overlearn" a reaction that they then inappropriately apply to a pressured game situation. Where the best decision makers like Gibbs excel is their ability to read a situation very quickly (jargon term is develop an accurate "mental model") and to make subtle alterations to their programmed response to one make it more appropriate for the current circumstances.

I believe Adelaide would have attempted to do this through set-up training scenarios. I think i read somewhere they even have a decision-making room I presume with video-based scenario training.

This is probably bit of a rant to some, but there is science out there that can be drawn on other than worrying about subjective feelings of general well-being .

Nice one, G. So not true what HBF says about you.

 

[Salaryman]

Thy, what does he say??

I should point out that in one regard, I do agree with pumped, that these skills are far more likely to be developed in players of good character and stability

 

[thylacine60]

Thy, what does he say??

I should point out that in one regard, I do agree with pumped, that these skills are far more likely to be developed in players of good character and stability

Couldn't repeat it on here, mate. I'll tell you what helps a team's composure - the amount of games played together as a unit. You tend not to panic if you know the blokes around you are supporting you and will be where you want them to be. Look at Geelong, they barely look up when dishing off because they know where a team-mate is standing (more likely running). We get to play another season or two together with players in their "appropriate" positions and I think the composure and better decision making will come.

 

[Salaryman]

Couldn't repeat it on here, mate. I'll tell you what helps a team's composure - the amount of games played together as a unit. You tend not to panic if you know the blokes around you are supporting you and will be where you want them to be. Look at Geelong, they barely look up when dishing off because they know where a team-mate is standing (more likely running). We get to play another season or two together with players in their "appropriate" positions and I think the composure and better decision making will come.

Very true as well

 

[pumped]

Pumped,

Working in the field I empathise with your views, but I think you place too much emphasis on the emotional side, sure it is important for general feelings of well-being but when push comes to shove, composure and decision making tap into more "hard-wired" cognitive issues.

When I say hard-wired, humans inherently have trouble coping with complexity and like to simplify things....our brains have been hard-wired to react in certain ways and we often adopt simplification heuristics to deal with said complexity.

If we are to develop composure, IMO the model adopted should be along the Adelaide one. While I am not privy to the details of their program it is my understanding that they developed some sort of decision-making training tool/task.

Aside from some players possessing more finely tuned reactions to cope appropriately to the nuances of each unique situation (Gibbs is a perfect example), it is possible to develop and improve decision-making/composure by supplying decision makers with a greater "data bank" of experiences to draw on. This is probably best achieved in near to game pressure/drills.

Where conventional training drills potentially fall down is that players "overlearn" a reaction that they then inappropriately apply to a pressured game situation. Where the best decision makers like Gibbs excel is their ability to read a situation very quickly (jargon term is develop an accurate "mental model") and to make subtle alterations to their programmed response to one make it more appropriate for the current circumstances.

I believe Adelaide would have attempted to do this through set-up training scenarios. I think i read somewhere they even have a decision-making room I presume with video-based scenario training.

This is probably bit of a rant to some, but there is science out there that can be drawn on other than worrying about subjective feelings of general well-being .

What you say may be true but still not convinced. I believe that all people have mood fluctuations and when on lows are not as productive as when their mood is stable.Also believe that people can develop control over their moods by being self aware. Probably not the sort of discussion for a footy forum but I do believe a lack of personal awareness contributes to some of the Carlton players lacking composure on the field.

Not discounting the hard wiring aspect but if this was the case would players not have consistency in how they react. Many of our players can be composed one week and rattled the next. Having said this if the programme you refer to can help it could not hurt to implement it.