Player Watch Nathan Freeman

[MarkT2]

I understand your point about the exits but I am more interested in the players arriving. If we are struggling why do players like Treloar want to play for us?

Well I could say money or even better because the alternative was Richmond!

In all seriousness money would be a factor but I suspect he likes the idea of the big club, has a mate in Adams, is possibly sold on the list potential and possibly likes Buckley and buys into his philosophy. Maybe it's some or all of those plus some. Different people are motivated by different things.

The inescapable reality is that if you can't motivate all types you can't win flags and if you can't retain nearly all your players you aren't a quality club and won't win flags. Another year goes by, another few players want out and another bunch or rather a repeat of the same bunch of excuses and justifications are trotted out. Carlton & Richmond have attracted players over the last 20 years but they've never looked like winning a flag in that time. Mean while we start another year hoping to scrape into the 8 with a young list. As we've seen, they don't all develop.

We initiated a culture change process and we are still losing players. There is no visible evidence of any success at all in the process. There is however evidence of collateral damage.

 

[PicaBoo]

The Internet is your friend.

It is even on this thread some pages back.

 

[Raveneyes]

Ah the Tunnel, I have no recollection of being kicked out on numerous occasions.

Anyway do people remember McGuane being knocked back at the door only to climb through a side window with a young N.Buckley in tow?

We used to call it the Trusty Tunnel because just like clockwork, you'd wait briefly in the queue before a fight broke out, then just bolt inside the place for free .. The things you do when you're young & stupid .. Back in the day that was Uncle Paul's money, his shout (dole , Paul keating era)

Remember the Tunnel well too, smelt of Euacalyptus all the time, Marty Rose downstairs on the piano!
Still have the bent finger when a mate got into a big fight with Paul Bulluss from richmond and his mates and broke it sideways, was so drunk not sure if i hit a face or something else hahaha.

The Tunnel.

Ah so many memories.

I pretty much lived there every weekend in the mid to late 90's.
I worked at Santa Fe Gold, and the guy who owned it also had The Tunnel and The Mens Gallery, as well as many other places.
All staff got a drink card (two drinks) and bypassed the queue every night at The Tunnel. Shrewd move, as all staff would just put their pay back into the company.

Some fond memories:
* Drinking at "Pants' Corner" in the bar downstairs, near the rear stairwell.
* Sharing a joint with Nicky Winmar in the laneway next to the carpark, only for him to cut my lunch with a girl I was chasing.
* Watching Gaz Snr roll in one night, so drunk he was swaying, but immediately pick up two hotties. We stared in awe while he pashed each of them in turn.
* Dipper, stripping to his reg grundies on the dancefloor, then falling hard on his ass from the podium.
* Watched 200cm Greg Stafford get knocked out by a very short bouncer. The sheer size difference made it almost comical. He was yelling at the bar staff for some reason, and creating a massive scene. I forget the bouncers name, but he was hard, and could fight. I remember he quit to go into personal bodyguarding.
* Nearly got into a fight with Stonefish (Ryan Moloney?) from Neighbours, after being obnoxious to him all night. I didn't hate him, I just enjoyed pissing him off. I hated Neighbours though.
* My first toilet shag! In the ladies, downstairs.
* Going through the back door into The Men's Gallery, and then back again, was something we did frequently. Knowing all the staff and bouncers (same company) made it so easy.

Sorry to derail the topic.

Anyway, I can't see Collingwood accepting a 3rd rounder for Freeman, it's more likley that St.Kilda will blink first and cough up their 2nd pick.
An earlier bombers poster suggested this:
St.Kilda get Freeman & Carlisle, lose pick 5 and 2nd round pick
Essendon get St.Kilda's pick 5, lose Carlisle & 3rd round pick
Collingwood get St.Kilda's 2nd round pick & Essendon's 3rd round pick, lose Freeman

I would love this, how about everyone else?

 

[jmac70]

Well I could say money or even better because the alternative was Richmond!

In all seriousness money would be a factor but I suspect he likes the idea of the big club, has a mate in Adams, is possibly sold on the list potential and possibly likes Buckley and buys into his philosophy. Maybe it's some or all of those plus some. Different people are motivated by different things.

The inescapable reality is that if you can't motivate all types you can't win flags and if you can't retain nearly all your players you aren't a quality club and won't win flags. Another year goes by, another few players want out and another bunch or rather a repeat of the same bunch of excuses and justifications are trotted out. Carlton & Richmond have attracted players over the last 20 years but they've never looked like winning a flag in that time. Mean while we start another year hoping to scrape into the 8 with a young list. As we've seen, they don't all develop.

We initiated a culture change process and we are still losing players. There is no visible evidence of any success at all in the process. There is however evidence of collateral damage.

I agree with you. The best teams are able to create a culture that almost all the players buy into. Buckley took over a team that was divided by the succession plan and has been chasing his tail ever since. There have been some signs this year of an improvement in player investment but it ultimately fizzled out. He has next year to show some tangible improvement or he will be out.

 

[12kilos]

There have been some signs this year of an improvement in player investment but it ultimately fizzled out. He has next year to show some tangible improvement or he will be out.[/QUOTE]

Good post, the only thing that will save Buckey in having a similar year next year , to the previous 2 years. Is if he get similar injuries to what Gold Coast got this year
Although there is some school of thought he should get a 1 year extention to his contract, end of 2017.
Having said that if he does nothing by the end of 2017 he is out.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

A wind rose in Seaford. It wasn't the beginning, because there are no beginnings or endings in the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.

It was an ill wind that rushed through Dandenong Mall, where the people killing time before heading to the Drug Court turned and sniffed, feeling the change. On the wind blew, through Moorabbin and then Prahran, making joggers miss a step and shoppers forget what they sought in the market place.

The wind blew up St Kilda Road, then reached the river. It blew across the Holden Centre where it knocked over a pawn on Derek Hine's desk. Hine straightened his plain woolen tunic and went and shut the window. Looking out, he saw a hobbling Nathan Freeman against the building storm clouds.

Hine sighed, reaching for an absent braid to tug. Battle was coming. Soon Trade Week would start.

 

[ClaytonM]

Well I could say money or even better because the alternative was Richmond!

In all seriousness money would be a factor but I suspect he likes the idea of the big club, has a mate in Adams, is possibly sold on the list potential and possibly likes Buckley and buys into his philosophy. Maybe it's some or all of those plus some. Different people are motivated by different things.

The inescapable reality is that if you can't motivate all types you can't win flags and if you can't retain nearly all your players you aren't a quality club and won't win flags. Another year goes by, another few players want out and another bunch or rather a repeat of the same bunch of excuses and justifications are trotted out. Carlton & Richmond have attracted players over the last 20 years but they've never looked like winning a flag in that time. Mean while we start another year hoping to scrape into the 8 with a young list. As we've seen, they don't all develop.

We initiated a culture change process and we are still losing players. There is no visible evidence of any success at all in the process. There is however evidence of collateral damage.

I don't share your negativity. Yes there has been a lot of turnover of players in the past few years but not many of them cause me any concerns, or I suspect the club. Beams, Shaw and now Freeman are the only ones that I think are A graders (or potentially). The rest were either B graders or less who are generally replaceable (Varcoe for HarryO) or marginal players such as Jackson Paine.

Player turnover is important to developing and maintaining a strong list. It is not necessarily a sign of club internal problems. Overall I think the list is in a stronger position than we were in 2005/6 which is a comparable point in time in our lists development.

 

[Manic Shadow]

A wind rose in Seaford. It wasn't the beginning, because there are no beginnings or endings in the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.

It was an ill wind that rushed through Dandenong Mall, where the people killing time before heading to the Drug Court turned and sniffed, feeling the change. On the wind blew, through Moorabbin and then Prahran, making joggers miss a step and shoppers forget what they sought in the market place.

The wind blew up St Kilda Road, then reached the river. It blew across the Holden Centre where it knocked over a pawn on Derek Hine's desk. Hine straightened his plain woolen tunic and went and shut the window. Looking out, he saw a hobbling Nathan Freeman against the building storm clouds.

Hine sighed, reaching for an absent braid to tug. Battle was coming. Soon Trade Week would start.

Has the dragon been reborn?

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Has the dragon been reborn?

 

[ppoiter]

Did he give birth to it?

 

[MarkT2]

I don't share your negativity. Yes there has been a lot of turnover of players in the past few years but not many of them cause me any concerns, or I suspect the club. Beams, Shaw and now Freeman are the only ones that I think are A graders (or potentially). The rest were either B graders or less who are generally replaceable (Varcoe for HarryO) or marginal players such as Jackson Paine.

Player turnover is important to developing and maintaining a strong list. It is not necessarily a sign of club internal problems. Overall I think the list is in a stronger position than we were in 2005/6 which is a comparable point in time in our lists development.

100% of the time when it is multiple players who finish high in B&F's it is a problem and 0% of those teams win flags. We can debate reasons and impact Thomas, O'Brien, Shaw, Beams and Wellingham are all good players that you don't want to lose, particularly in numbers and even more so on the back of the b/c+ graders that exited. It is not about an individual it is about a collective impact and it's not just pure player list quality it is about the camaraderie. I was never a great fan of Harry to be honest but it still concerned me that he wanted out. It's not just about the who but the why.

Hawthorn can lose Buddy and not skip a beat because they know he took up the largest contract ever offered to an AFL player to play for a club that has more to spend then Hawthorn and they have a great culture - not withstanding injunctions etc. We probably had that leading up to 2010 and probably through to 2012. 2013 is where it all fell apart at Collingwood.

The bottom line is the bottom line. We've been rubbish for 2 years and we are now placed exactly where we were last year. The same people who said we would be better in 2015 than 2014 will dispute that no doubt but we have all the same list deficiencies and will have less depth. In 2014 people on here blamed inquiries for the ladder. This year we didn't have that excuse and the result was the same. We finished where our list dictated.

 

[Heritier 09]

ugh...

What would this board be like if we were genuinely rubbish?

Freeman going makes no difference. We are going to be so much better next year.

I feel like at that point I'll be equally satisfied with how well the football club is going, and how wrong all the whingers were.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

ugh...

What would this board be like if we were genuinely rubbish?

Freeman going makes no difference. We are going to be so much better next year.

I feel like at that point I'll be equally satisfied with how well the football club is going, and how wrong all the whingers were.

Its easier to whinge
Harder to be patient but thats why some are whingers and some are not

 

[jasonwilde]

The sky fell.
Oh noes!

 

[jasonwilde]

Its easier to whinge
Harder to be patient but thats why some are whingers and some are not

But I want it now, bitch!

 

[Saintly Viewed]

100% of the time when it is multiple players who finish high in B&F's it is a problem and 0% of those teams win flags. We can debate reasons and impact Thomas, O'Brien, Shaw, Beams and Wellingham are all good players that you don't want to lose, particularly in numbers and even more so on the back of the b/c+ graders that exited. It is not about an individual it is about a collective impact and it's not just pure player list quality it is about the camaraderie. I was never a great fan of Harry to be honest but it still concerned me that he wanted out. It's not just about the who but the why.

Hawthorn can lose Buddy and not skip a beat because they know he took up the largest contract ever offered to an AFL player to play for a club that has more to spend then Hawthorn and they have a great culture - not withstanding injunctions etc. We probably had that leading up to 2010 and probably through to 2012. 2013 is where it all fell apart at Collingwood.

The bottom line is the bottom line. We've been rubbish for 2 years and we are now placed exactly where we were last year. The same people who said we would be better in 2015 than 2014 will dispute that no doubt but we have all the same list deficiencies and will have less depth. In 2014 people on here blamed inquiries for the ladder. This year we didn't have that excuse and the result was the same. We finished where our list dictated.

Sorty if i laugh a little, only a little
Great culture hawthorn? We call it this because their list wins flags
Not that long a go their culture nearly caused their extinction?
Granted they run a good show, they do, all credit there, BUT that is built on a list created out of Franklin, Roughhead, Hodge, Mitchell which they pretty much got when they struggled.
Buddy leaving has been coped with because overall their list was strong. Thats how it goes.

Thats why we are building our list to have quality there to really compete.
You need the cattle and good behaviours granted and then you compete at the highest levels.
Its not that hawthorn has ok list and magically they are so special because they are hawthorn, no way.
Excellent list right building blocks, taking opportunities and then success.

 

[jasonwilde]

Sorty if i laugh a little, only a little
Great culture hawthorn? We call it this because their list wins flags
Not that long a go their culture nearly caused their extinction?
Granted they run a good show, they do, all credit there, BUT that is built on a list created out of Franklin, Roughhead, Hodge, Mitchell which they pretty much got when they struggled.
Buddy leaving has been coped with because overall their list was strong. Thats how it goes.

Thats why we are building our list to have quality there to really compete.
You need the cattle and good behaviours granted and then you compete at the highest levels.
Its not that hawthorn has ok list and magically they are so special because they are hawthorn, no way.
Excellent list right building blocks, taking opportunities and then success.

But, Buckley is on mission to deliberately destroy Collingwood because (not sure of his motives...)

Bring back Malthouse!!

 

[MarkT2]

Its easier to whinge
Harder to be patient but thats why some are whingers and some are not

Some are whingers, some are not.
Some are cheerleaders, some are not.
Some are right, some are not.

It's actually much easier to be a cheerleader.

 

[MarkT2]

But, Buckley is on mission to deliberately destroy Collingwood because (not sure of his motives...)

Bring back Malthouse!!

FFS how many time do I have to say that:
1 I am not and was never a great MM fan
2 I think Buckley can COACH

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Some are whingers, some are not.
Some are cheerleaders, some are not.
Some are right, some are not.

It's actually much easier to be a cheerleader.

Ok

 

[Saintly Viewed]

But I want it now,

Yes we all want it
It will work itself out nicely im sure
And if not, i'll be wrong

 

[Saintly Viewed]

But, Buckley is on mission to deliberately destroy Collingwood because (not sure of his motives...)

Bring back Malthouse!!

Im very happy with Nathan, im happy for him to be there ten years, as long as he building building etc
The best eras tend to have long term coaches, so heres hoing in his decade should he stay that long, we will have great success

 

[rand corp]

.....I mean after all, he is a Free-man

 

[MarkT2]

Great culture hawthorn? We call it this because their list wins flags
Not that long a go their culture nearly caused their extinction?

If culture drives success, which after all is OUR theory, and the reason for Leading Teams being introduced then yes, flags are a good indicator of culture. Personally I favour that as a measure based on a simpler factor. You don't win flags unless the players want to be there and play for each other. They haven't lost many quality players over the last decade or so.

As for near extinction LAST CENTURY, they were in debt as we were and they got themselves out of it.

Not that long a go their culture nearly caused their extinction?
Granted they run a good show, they do, all credit there, BUT that is built on a list created out of Franklin, Roughhead, Hodge, Mitchell which they pretty much got when they struggled.
Buddy leaving has been coped with because overall their list was strong. Thats how it goes..

Yep, that's about where we were placed.

Its not that hawthorn has ok list and magically they are so special because they are hawthorn, no way.
Excellent list right building blocks, taking opportunities and then success.

They kept their players and added quality to suit needs. We went in a completely different direction. They won 2 more flags after 2008 and will play in a 4tyh consecutive GF. We fall in a heap. You could easily equate their 2008 to our 2010 or their 2012 to our 2011.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

A wind rose in Seaford. It wasn't the beginning, because there are no beginnings or endings in the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.

It was an ill wind that rushed through Dandenong Mall, where the people killing time before heading to the Drug Court turned and sniffed, feeling the change. On the wind blew, through Moorabbin and then Prahran, making joggers miss a step and shoppers forget what they sought in the market place.

The wind blew up St Kilda Road, then reached the river. It blew across the Holden Centre where it knocked over a pawn on Derek Hine's desk. Hine straightened his plain woolen tunic and went and shut the window. Looking out, he saw a hobbling Nathan Freeman against the building storm clouds.

Hine sighed, reaching for an absent braid to tug. Battle was coming. Soon Trade Week would start.

Nice.