Player Watch Nathan Freeman

[Anzacday]

So out of our recent drafting successes we had one player who has walked out.
His were unusual circumstances and we need to move on.
Shaz had a tough time too and he stayed - there's the positive news.

 

[Rohan25]

I'll be glad when this one is over.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

StKilda's investment in him is still based on his TAC year and his potential. Its not like he is 23 and has missed a significant amount of football which he may never recover from. The kid is 20 and possibly lining his pockets for the next chapter in his life if those hamstrings don't allow him to perform at the level we all hoped he would. Ability and potential will still be the main factors in his trade value which have been demonstrated by the contract StKilda have put in front of him.

There's a lot of sense in this post. The kid could be seriously concerned that his body isn't going to allow him to make a career out of AFL footy, but taking a 3 year contract with St Kilda worth more than 750k at least ensures he has set himself up pretty well financially for the next part of his life if it doesn't work out. The Saints would be well aware that he has serious injury concerns but from our perspective we've got cash to burn for the next few years and if his hammies don't hold up then we can move on and use the money on someone else in a few years when we're challenging. If he gets his body right then we've snared a gun mid cheaply. No one likes a young player walking out on your club but I think the battering Freeman is getting from Collingwood is over the top.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Seriously I have to ask, What is Bucks up to? After the recruiters have probably figured out a reasonable deal for Freeman he throws a spanner in the works - so now we're back to square one and probably offering pick 59 or 77 for a player with injuries & "problems" who can't get on the park.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-him-nathan-buckley-says-20150929-gjxp52.html

 

[watt price tully]

There's a lot of sense in this post. The kid could be seriously concerned that his body isn't going to allow him to make a career out of AFL footy, but taking a 3 year contract with St Kilda worth more than 750k at least ensures he has set himself up pretty well financially for the next part of his life if it doesn't work out. The Saints would be well aware that he has serious injury concerns but from our perspective we've got cash to burn for the next few years and if his hammies don't hold up then we can move on and use the money on someone else in a few years when we're challenging. If he gets his body right then we've snared a gun mid cheaply. No one likes a young player walking out on your club but I think the battering Freeman is getting from Collingwood is over the top.

I think it would be more accurate to say the battering from some pies posters. I largely agree with your sentiments.

A straight swap for Jack Billings or the Lonie kid & everyones happy

 

[DoubleDraw7710]

A really good one should but i understand your point.

I dont want to sound extremely arrogant here but i have hired people for a long period of time (10 years) and think my sense of judge of character is very good. I actually dont think i have got many wrong if any.

You don't work in a competitive environment where those you interview may go to a rival club. Sure you could be happy with your selections but what about the Lance Franklins and Nathan Fyfes you didn't hire even though you're happy with Alan Toovey and Alex Fasolo.

 

[Matt_352]

I think it would be more accurate to say the battering from some pies posters. I largely agree with your sentiments.

A straight swap for Jack Billings or the Lonie kid & everyones happy

Yes please

 

[Mr Bombastic]

Seriously I have to ask, What is Bucks up to? After the recruiters have probably figured out a reasonable deal for Freeman he throws a spanner in the works - so now we're back to square one and probably offering pick 59 or 77 for a player with injuries & "problems" who can't get on the park.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-him-nathan-buckley-says-20150929-gjxp52.html

Buckley's comments won't effect the negotiation, a trade has probably already been agreed upon. Surely the Saints would have known about Freeman's "problems" before what Buckley said?

 

[Matt_352]

Won't matter we will still ask for a first rounder, Saints will try to screw us over with a 3rd rounder. Will meet down the middle at Saints 2nd rounder

 

[watt price tully]

Disagree with the premise of this.

I just don't see how a clubs can be successful by treating players as commodities, and how players can be successful by treating clubs as soulless organisations who who pay them money for services.

Players have got their mates around them, the potential to play in finals (or not), the potential to get games of footy (or not), the potential of winning premierships (or not), the potential to get the best out of themselves (or not), the potential to stay close to home or travel elsewhere, the potential to work in an environment they like or is familiar to them.

Have a look at the migration of players around the AFL in any given season. Last year there were 34 players out of around 800 who went to a new club. How many of those were due to money? Did James Frawley move from Melbourne to Hawthorn for money? Did Allen Christensen move from Geelong to Brisbane for money? Did Jack Crisp move from Brisbane to Collingwood for money?

The number of players who chase money because they could earn more elsewhere is minuscule.

In fact, I'd say that players would generally chase more money elsewhere if they're unhappy where they are.

Franklin got a massive payrise by going to Sydney - but he was also wanting to get out of the fishbowl that was Melbourne.

Tippett got a massive payrise by going to Sydney - but he was wanting to get out of Adelaide.

Beams got a massive payrise by going to Brisbane - but he was wanting to be with his family.

Judd got a massive payrise by moving to Carlton - but he was wanting to get out of the toxic environment of WCE.

Greenwood got a payrise by moving to Collingwood - but he didn't think he was being appreciated at North Melbourne

There is generally something else

There is usually something else but it isn't mutually exclusive from going (quite reasonably) for greater financial security especially given his tenuous hammies: both lines of thinking are correct in my view. Rehab can be a lonely place none of us know how much we invested in him in terms of player welfare etc. As I understand it (of course code for not understanding it) his family are all St Kilda supporters, there was sone other link with his manager & the opportunity to go to St Kilda.

It is disappointing to lose the number 10 draft pick given the injuries not only to him but to Herr Von Scharenberg that make it "feel" worse than it is. We all, I presume had a lot of hope & expectation invested in the 2 top 10 picks that hasn't been realised & only adds to our sense of disappointment.

I don't know why Messieurs Balme, Hine & Rendell don't share their thinking on this matter.

 

[PicaBoo]

There's a lot of sense in this post. The kid could be seriously concerned that his body isn't going to allow him to make a career out of AFL footy, but taking a 3 year contract with St Kilda worth more than 750k at least ensures he has set himself up pretty well financially for the next part of his life if it doesn't work out. The Saints would be well aware that he has serious injury concerns but from our perspective we've got cash to burn for the next few years and if his hammies don't hold up then we can move on and use the money on someone else in a few years when we're challenging. If he gets his body right then we've snared a gun mid cheaply. No one likes a young player walking out on your club but I think the battering Freeman is getting from Collingwood is over the top.

You are contradicting the official Connors line which that it isn't all about the money. Which one of you is telling fibs.
And if the Freeman camp throws dirt at Collingwood to make themselves look clean, we simply return the favor. Add a bit of disloyalty and Freeman is entitled to some flak.
I hope he has a great time at Kilda. I am sure he will blend in with other hamstrung victims.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Are you suggesting that the club knew Freeman was a risk in terms of his commitment?

dont fall into his dribble.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

You are contradicting the official Connors line which that it isn't all about the money. Which one of you is telling fibs.
And if the Freeman camp throws dirt at Collingwood to make themselves look clean, we simply return the favor. Add a bit of disloyalty and Freeman is entitled to some flak.
I hope he has a great time at Kilda. I am sure he will blend in with other hamstrung victims.

Of course money is a huge factor, as it is in many players' decision to change clubs. But it's obviously not good for anyone's image to state this publicly as the general public isn't too sympathetic towards professional sportspeople changing clubs for an extra few hundred thousand while the average footy fan probably earns about 60k per year working a job they don't like. However Freeman has probably recognised that there's a chance that his hammies won't hold up and has gone for the financial security of a nice pay packet on an extended contract from St Kilda rather than accepting a shorter, smaller contract from Collingwood which could well be his last. The Freeman camp really hasn't thrown any dirt either, at the moment they're just saying he's leaving for opportunity.

 

[Mick39]

They were poor comments last night. If anything, the comments about issues that Freeman has will lessen his trade value.

 

[ppoiter]

Seriously I have to ask, What is Bucks up to? After the recruiters have probably figured out a reasonable deal for Freeman he throws a spanner in the works - so now we're back to square one and probably offering pick 59 or 77 for a player with injuries & "problems" who can't get on the park.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-him-nathan-buckley-says-20150929-gjxp52.html

Will his comments cause you to decrease your contract offer?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Good point. We rookie Keefe and Thomas, neither of whom are stars, but we won't consider two stars in Bennell or even Carlysle because they have behavior/attitude issues.

Main difference the Pies 2 are or were already on the list, the other two are not.
If keefe thomas were say at Essendon (just picked them randomly) we would not take them. That simple i think.

 

[swoop42]

I think the inference I took out of it was that he didn't look after himself well. That could be personality related, off field activities or something like that.

Personally I think Bucks was referring to the mental demons Freeman seemingly hasn't been able to overcome in order to regain full confidence in his hamstring.

I've always felt that the second operation on his hamstring was as much about easing his doubts as it was exploring the area medically.

I might be wrong but the impression I got was that there wasn't an inordinate amount of scar tissue surrounding the nerve and was as you'd expect.

They removed some but the fact that he subsequently never returned to the field makes me believe his issue became mental more than physical.

 

[PicaBoo]

Of course money is a huge factor, as it is in many players' decision to change clubs. But it's obviously not good for anyone's image to state this publicly as the general public isn't too sympathetic towards professional sportspeople changing clubs for an extra few hundred thousand while the average footy fan probably earns about 60k per year working a job they don't like. However Freeman has probably recognised that there's a chance that his hammies won't hold up and has gone for the financial security of a nice pay packet on an extended contract from St Kilda rather than accepting a shorter, smaller contract from Collingwood which could well be his last. The Freeman camp really hasn't thrown any dirt either, at the moment they're just saying he's leaving for opportunity.

Everyone understands why the money factor is important. I think for people on a low salary, that would even be more understandable. Ask Varcoe why he came to us.
The fact that Connors is deflecting on that subject, is not in the best interest of his client . That doesn't reflect well on his credibility. Other reasons are dismantled just as easy Lack of opportunity is one of those. If fit, he would walk just as easy in our best 22 as he would be at the Saints.
There are other noises about mismanagement of his injuries and other dealings with the club. If you haven't heard those, that explains your view.
In the end he is a top 10 pick that walks out on us in not the best circumstances after 2 years without showing anything for the club apart from medical bills.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Personally I think Bucks was referring to the mental demons Freeman seemingly hasn't been able to overcome in order to regain full confidence in his hamstring.

I've always felt that the second operation on his hamstring was as much about easing his doubts as it was exploring the area medically.

I might be wrong but the impression I got was that there wasn't an inordinate amount of scar tissue surrounding the nerve and was as you'd expect.

They removed some but the fact that he subsequently never returned to the field makes me believe his issue became mental more than physical.

Yeah and I'm pretty sure one of Balme or Bucks pretty much said that mid season - that the club, or docs, felt he was ok to return, but that Freeman wasn't comfortable with his knee (Which could mean a number of things) and that's why they went for the 2nd (?) Op, which was more about having another look +/- clean rather than anything significant... You would suggest that without the 2nd one he couldve easily gotten back to VFL footy at least.

 

[Anzacday]

"The offer [from Collingwood] we thought was unreasonable … don't get me wrong, he hasn't played a game so it's not like we were after that [much] – it's how that makes you feel," Connors told SEN.
Not about the money???

 

[mad-saint-guy]

The fact that Connors is deflecting on that subject, is not in the best interest of his client . That doesn't reflect well on his credibility. Other reasons are dismantled just as easy Lack of opportunity is one of those. If fit, he would walk just as easy in our best 22 as he would be at the Saints.
There are other noises about mismanagement of his injuries and other dealings with the club. If you haven't heard those, that explains your view.

Credibility among footy fans wouldn't be high on Connors' list of priorities. Player managers aren't bastions of truth, they essentially just do the dirty work to get their clients to a club and on a contract they're happy with. I'd say deflecting questions would be in Freeman's best interests as opposed to saying he wants more money or that he's concerned that his hammies are shot.

I have heard the rumours about Freeman being unhappy with how his injuries were managed but this has largely come from whispers from supporters rather than anything made public by the Freeman camp.

Don't get me wrong, I've been mightily pissed off when players have walked out on St Kilda without a fair return (Ball, Cripps, Lynch, Goddard) and it's natural to feel betrayed, I just think some people have been excessive in their abuse of a kid who is looking after his future. If he takes the Saints contract and can't get on the park then he's still earned himself about a million dollars from his stint in the AFL and is well set up for any future endeavours. Or he can risk going on a 1-2 year contract with Collingwood and come out of it with much less financial security. Footballers generally aren't too bright and don't pay too much attention at school - I'm not sure if this rings true in Freeman's case but usually it's wise for them to get as much cash from footy as possible because they're often not very good at anything else.

 

[Feerits Elf]

Of course money is a huge factor, as it is in many players' decision to change clubs. But it's obviously not good for anyone's image to state this publicly as the general public isn't too sympathetic towards professional sportspeople changing clubs for an extra few hundred thousand while the average footy fan probably earns about 60k per year working a job they don't like.

Not to mention they don't take 10 months sick leave a year.

 

[MarkT2]

"The offer [from Collingwood] we thought was unreasonable … don't get me wrong, he hasn't played a game so it's not like we were after that [much] – it's how that makes you feel," Connors told SEN.
Not about the money???

That does not say it is about money at all. It says he was insulted.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Re the comments from Buckley - the only way I can see benefit for us in making them is:
A) as a warning shot at Camp Freeman to shut up about us in terms of blaming our fitness staff etc (cos them talking about it might harm us in eyes of players we're after), and/or
B) to preemptively strike in terms of perceptions of who is blame to ensure potential recruits aren't spooked.

Maybe something specific has come up to make them want to go aggressive of the perceptions issue. Otherwise, not sure why Bucks has done this.

If it's just out of irritation at Freeman and tje situation, that's silly. Not the end of the world but not helpful either.

 

[Bard]

Re the comments from Buckley - the only way I can see benefit for us in making them is:
A) as a warning shot at Camp Freeman to shut up about us in terms of blaming our fitness staff etc (cos them talking about it might harm us in eyes of players we're after), and/or
B) to preemptively strike in terms of perceptions of who is blame to ensure potential recruits aren't spooked.

Maybe something specific has come up to make them want to go aggressive of the perceptions issue. Otherwise, not sure why Bucks has done this.

If it's just out of irritation at Freeman and tje situation, that's silly. Not the end of the world but not helpful either.

I'd suggest the clubs probably see eye-to-eye on trade value and this won't change it hence he just doesn't care about public perception of Freeman. Who knows though. Agree it was likely unnecessary and a bit silly but Buckley doesn't usually have a slip of the tongue in the media.