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National Broadband Network

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medusala said:
Taxpayers are still on the hook.



Because....????
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You don't believe the NBN can possibly make the 7% return or even 4% to break even.

How can you possibly think Abbott's will? The difference is about 10 billion with far less customers. (don't give me the liberals numbers on FTTP blow out, because you know as well as I do the libs own policy will similar blowout)

This is the thing that......certain people don't understand.

Its a worthwhile investment it brings the whole country upto speed at once.

This throw away line you want it you pay for it is blatantly arrogant bs, the choice 1/2 the job done for 3/4 of the price (at best)

The tax payer is already paying the difference isn't that much on the budget, what it will do however is grossly impact those who are low income earners, once again increasing the disparity between the haves and have nots.

There's simply some people (where talking millions) that won't be able to afford the NBN under the liberal scheme.

Despite the fact that even the liberals agree that an NBN is needed, in fact the only reason the liberals plan is different is because they went early saying how much of a waste the NBN is to appeal to old people.

Let face facts there's only 3 groups that are opposed to labors NBN
1st) old people who don't use the internet
2) liberal cheerleaders
3) people with shares in companies likely to loose money if it continues.
 
Lester Burnham said:
How about 120 billion? 150? You have not even demonstrated the value if the cost were the original $44b.




When the cost blows out, which it inevitably will, the government would be faced with a choice of passing on the costs to consumers via RSPs or absorbing it into government debt. Both options stink. Given that Labor has created a government monopoly for fibre, and handicapped 4G competition they would be at liberty to slug all consumers with big price rises irrespective of whether they require super fast broadband.
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You are just throwing up fanciful numbers now. Last post I sent I posed a question or two which you ignored. I also pointed out you fell short on your definition of

Government monopoly better than private fixed line monopoly that we have now. Mobile services complementary to fibre (handicapped? Give me a break).

Roads cost money and never make a return.

The way you have argued this topic suggests you are a liberal fanboi. I love how this type will ask questions and demand evidence from others but will refuse to provide it themselves and then ignore anything presented by anyone else (unless it supports their assertions).
 
TheMase said:
You are just throwing up fanciful numbers now. Last post I sent I posed a question or two which you ignored. I also pointed out you fell short on your definition of

Government monopoly better than private fixed line monopoly that we have now. Mobile services complementary to fibre (handicapped? Give me a break).

Roads cost money and never make a return.

The way you have argued this topic suggests you are a liberal fanboi. I love how this type will ask questions and demand evidence from others but will refuse to provide it themselves and then ignore anything presented by anyone else (unless it supports their assertions).
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It's the conservative way.
 

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TheMase said:
Don't believe I said that. Government investment does not require the same return as a shareholder run company business. It does not need to make big returns as it does not have to pay shareholders. The system pays itself off over time via the users (including business).

Don't see how it will be a white elephant. Will be the backbone of Australia's communication needs for at least half a century.
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Give it time
 
http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/525271/nbn_isp_warns_4000_connection_fee_after_election/

An NBN internet service provider is warning customers they could be hit with a $4000 fee for Fibre-to-the-Home if they don’t connect before Saturday’s federal election.
AusBBS is urging customers “to connect today” and warns even customers already passed by the roll out could find themselves with a hefty bill when they decide to connect, should the Coalition win.
The Coalition has stated that it intends to scale back Labor's NBN Fibre-to-the-Home plan and replace it with Fibre-to-the-Node - leaving customers to make the connection from node to the premise at their own cost.
“Currently NBN Co will install a fibre optic cable right into your home for free,” an AusBBS release states. “After next Saturday you may have to pay a fee and there are rumours that it could be up to $4,000 or more."
“If you are lucky enough to live in an NBN active area don't take the risk, connect today.”
The company statement has also offered to pay the termination fees on current contracts if you sign up to an unlimited plan.
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Won't the first user who pays the $4000 connection from the Node at the end of the street to their front door be effectively subsidizing every other user in the street who decides to connect into the fibre that is run past their door by the first user? I can't see installers running brand new fibre from the node to every single house demanding it in the street when there is a cable already run past the house which they can splice into out the front but probably still charge the $4000 fee.
 
Yeap and it will be a "standard" install fee as well you could be ten metres from the node and they will still charge you $4000 Grand.

Also I eagerly await the liberal fan boys to post the supposed 100gig down speed that Turnbull is crowing about.

Its a blatant lie.
 
TheMase said:
Government monopoly better than private fixed line monopoly that we have now.
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Did you ever try to get a phone line connected when Telecom was a govt monopoly? Far worse than Telstra is now, not even comparable.

Let face facts there's only 3 groups that are opposed to labors NBN
1st) old people who don't use the internet
2) liberal cheerleaders
3) people with shares in companies likely to loose money if it continues.
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4) People who have a clue about finance and know there is stuff all benefit economically from people being able to download movies quickly.
 

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medusala said:
4) People who think they have a clue about finance and believe there is stuff all benefit economically from people being able to download movies quickly even though that is not the what it is being built for.
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With the bolded corrections I would agree.
 
TheMase said:
The way you have argued this topic suggests you are a liberal fanboi. I love how this type will ask questions and demand evidence from others but will refuse to provide it themselves and then ignore anything presented by anyone else (unless it supports their assertions).
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If you had been paying attention you would know that I am not a fan of the Liberal NBN plan either. Like their direct action plan on "carbon" they have felt wedged to try to catch a few youf and doctor's wives votes. Their PPL plan is pretty dumb too.

The best way for people who want fast internet is for the government to get out of the way. If the demand is there private enterprise will cater for it faster and cheaper than some government boondoggle would ever do. Private companies are already stepping in because the NBN rollout is so slow.

OPENetworks began last week connecting apartments in one of Sydney's biggest complexes, comprising 810 units in 18 buildings at Erskineville in the city's inner west. The official NBN construction in the area is due between June 2015 and March 2017, according to NBN Co's website.

Internet service providers running on the OPENetworks system at Sydney Park Village are offering speeds of up to 100/40 megabits per second for downloading/uploading.​
​
Plans offered by internet retailer Internode to Sydney Park Village residents start at $49.95 a month for 30GB at 12Mbps download speeds and 1Mbps upload speeds. For $94.95, residents can get 300GB and speeds of 100Mbps and 40Mbps. There is no installation fee on the 24-month contracts.

OPENetworks managing director Michael Sparksman said installing a VDSL2 internet service to an apartment using copper cost about $200 - half for equipment and half in labour. In contrast, retro-fitting a fibre connection into a building could cost more than $5000 for each apartment.​
​
 
NBN contractors moving into my area today doing final preparations on the pits for the rollout.

http://imgur.com/a/9su1B#0
9su1B
 
medusala said:
Did you ever try to get a phone line connected when Telecom was a govt monopoly? Far worse than Telstra is now, not even comparable.



4) People who have a clue about finance and know there is stuff all benefit economically from people being able to download movies quickly.
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I dont know, id say phone bill shock was much rarer back then
 

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Lester Burnham said:
If you had been paying attention you would know that I am not a fan of the Liberal NBN plan either. Like their direct action plan on "carbon" they have felt wedged to try to catch a few youf and doctor's wives votes. Their PPL plan is pretty dumb too.

The best way for people who want fast internet is for the government to get out of the way. If the demand is there private enterprise will cater for it faster and cheaper than some government boondoggle would ever do. Private companies are already stepping in because the NBN rollout is so slow.

OPENetworks began last week connecting apartments in one of Sydney's biggest complexes, comprising 810 units in 18 buildings at Erskineville in the city's inner west. The official NBN construction in the area is due between June 2015 and March 2017, according to NBN Co's website.

Internet service providers running on the OPENetworks system at Sydney Park Village are offering speeds of up to 100/40 megabits per second for downloading/uploading.​
​
Plans offered by internet retailer Internode to Sydney Park Village residents start at $49.95 a month for 30GB at 12Mbps download speeds and 1Mbps upload speeds. For $94.95, residents can get 300GB and speeds of 100Mbps and 40Mbps. There is no installation fee on the 24-month contracts.

OPENetworks managing director Michael Sparksman said installing a VDSL2 internet service to an apartment using copper cost about $200 - half for equipment and half in labour. In contrast, retro-fitting a fibre connection into a building could cost more than $5000 for each apartment.​
​
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They are offering plans of those speeds but no ones actually achieving them. The peak speed achieved was 49mbps down and 38mps up and that was during a user test. With 40 residents signed up and assuming they were all connected and online at the same time and that's the best they could achieve its a joke.

This was during a test of the system, laughably they tried to blame the isp.

And let's remember this is in an apartment block if you live in a house your on copper quite a bit further.

But yes great investment from the private sector, they sold a guy a plan for speeds he'll never get.
 
Internode have stated that it was actually a 50 Mps service that was tested. Apparently the 100 Mps services have been getting 93 Mps.


But that wasn't my main point. The residents of this apartment block are receiving fast internet much earlier and way cheaper than through the government scheme.
 
Lester Burnham said:
Internode have stated that it was actually a 50 Mps service that was tested. Apparently the 100 Mps services have been getting 93 Mps.


But that wasn't my main point. The residents of this apartment block are receiving fast internet much earlier and way cheaper than through the government scheme.
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The prices and speeds you have quoted are identical to NBN plans with internode for both speed and data. So rollout is much earlier only, not cheaper for the user.

Fwiw one of the reasons I support the NBN method is we get a consistent and well designed network. With private we will get a mish mash of technologies that don't seemlessly integrate with each other.

My NBN service is due to be installed in early to mid October, incidentally with internode so I am well aware of their plans...
 
TheMase said:
The prices and speeds you have quoted are identical to NBN plans with internode for both speed and data. So rollout is much earlier only, not cheaper for the user.

Fwiw one of the reasons I support the NBN method is we get a consistent and well designed network. With private we will get a mish mash of technologies that don't seemlessly integrate with each other.

My NBN service is due to be installed in early to mid October, incidentally with internode so I am well aware of their plans...
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And it's only earlier because they have done it by themselves outside of any rollout schedule. I also wouldn't be surprised if they were also locked in to the one retail provider.

I'm sure if an apartment block wanted to install fibre themselves they could get it done earlier as well.

Also if they we're in a HFC area they would be getting done last under the Coalition.
 

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