Need your opinion (again)

[sbagman]

The European Union have invited me to comment on my experiences here at the University of Florence. I would like to relate how difficult the situation is, in such a way that it doesn't sound like excessive complaining or is over-emotional, as I don't want this to reduce the effectiveness of my message. Below is what I am considering sending.

The names of the institute and people involved have been changed.

Comments?

Sbagman.

Upon completion of my PhD studies at the University of Queensland, Australia, I was fortunate enough to be offered a scholarship to conduct postdoctoral research at the XYZ Institute, at the University of Florence. The project proposed to me was that of the design and development of inhibitors of matrix metalloproteases (MMPs). I was very excited to have this opportunity in such a well-known institute, and speaking fluent Italian, my hopes were that I would fit it well at XYZ and in Florence.

The reality, however, has been one of frustration and isolation. Since arriving here, I have found that as a scientific environment, XYZ has many deficiencies. I have no contact with either of the two professors to whom I am responsible, Professors John Brown and Paul Smith. Neither professor takes time to discuss the science behind the work I do, does not communicate expectations or feedback, and does not take time to discuss issues that arise in my research. My efforts to communicate with both Professors have fallen on deaf ears. Despite many emails, particularly to Professor Smith, outlining concerns, progress, or my desire to meet and discuss the project, none have been answered, either electronically or in person. I find this disinterest in my scientific development a severe hindrance to me being able to achieve all that I can here. My concerns about this situation, related to Professor Brown in a rare face-to-face meeting, were rebuffed with the accusation that I wasn’t “man enough”, that I needed to “look in the mirror”, and that the fault lay with me.

Contact with my colleagues who also work on the project has been insufficient. Dr Mark Jones, with whom I was instructed to communicate with when I first arrived, has had little time to discuss the project, and again, emails requesting discussion of the project are not replied to. On the occasions when I have spoken to Dr Jones, he has had barely five minutes to spare, and shown contempt and apathy for the project: two frequent comments were “do as you please” and “just send the Professors something to make them happy”. My contact with Dr Jones has been of no use whatsoever.

I would also like to express my disappointment at the total absence of discussion within the project. From my point of view, this project is large and consists of many different facets, including NMR, protein expression, and molecular modelling. This should mean it is necessary to have a high degree of communication between the people working on the project. Such meetings have existed in every other research group in which I have worked. However, there have been no meetings between the people working on the MMP project in 2003. Again, I find this scientific environment not conducive to producing quality results, and the result of this communication vacuum has restricted me to performing endlessly repetitious studies in the absence of anyone else’s involvement in the project.

I would also like to express my discontent at the lack of a general scientific culture in XYZ. In most places I have conducted research, there have been meetings in which researchers are encouraged to present their work, or discuss recent literature. When I arrived, no such meetings existed. I took it upon myself to organise these meetings at XYZ, yet they have received no support from any of the professors. I was profoundly offended when I gave the first seminar, a one hour presentation of my PhD project, which drew the attendance of not one of the senior staff. This includes Professor Smith, for whom I work. The general apathy towards my own endeavour has been very disheartening.

On April 7th 2003, I received an email from Professor Brown, demanding publishable results or face the “immediate termination” of my contract. My reply, which explained what I had been doing, and asking for clarification on what was wanted, was not replied to. I approached the Department of Chemistry at the University of Florence what my rights were in this situation, and was told that I had none. I was also informed my contract could be terminated at any time, with no warning, and for no reason, by Professor Brown. I was also informed there was no-one to whom I could talk to about my concerns about the situation in which I found myself. Although this situation has been resolved to some extent, this vulnerability, and the initial email containing the threat of “immediate termination” has completely destroyed the working environment for me.

There are many other reasons which have contributed to my displeasure, including the absence of social opportunities within both XYZ and the University of Florence. In every other place in which I have conducted research, dinners, parties, sporting events etc were organised. Since arriving here in September last year, no such activities have been organised here. This may not seem important to the Italian researchers at XYZ, but for someone who is 17,000 km from home and cannot see his friends or family, this issue has greatly contributed to my discomfort at XYZ. The infrastructure itself at XYZ and the Polo Scientifico, the campus where XYZ is located, are totally inadequate. Delays, sometimes as much as weeks, in receiving my stipend are commonplace. The campus is isolated from the city of Florence, and transport to and from the campus is woeful. Facilities for those who study and work here are almost entirely non-existent.

It is unfortunate that my experiences here have been so negative that they have prompted me to relate this story. The situation in which I find myself, far from home, scientifically and socially isolated, and with no rights, is surely not uncommon among foreign postdocs. Despite this, it is my sincere belief that XYZ has the possibility to be a productive and enjoyable place to conduct research. The researchers here are obviously passionate about their work, enduring the many obstacles which are presented to them and still managing to produce publishable work. My hope is that comments such as these will result in some self-analysis by those here with the power to change things, so that a productive and enjoyable scientific environment is created.

 

[Sydneyfan]

You've done the best thing in being honest, Rob. Naturally, they'd prefer that you said that the work environment is wonderful, only surpassed by its social environment.

Though by providing your experiences and frustrations in Florence, it will provide some warning to other Ph.D. students thinking of Florence, and will (hopefully), spur the XYZ Institute to improve their program.

Although, it's not the ringing endorsement they'd no doubt love, it's an honest assessment which hopefully will help others considering a move to Florenece.

 

[Nic]

Tell it like it is!

 

[sbagman]

Should I include references to specific people and comments or keep it more general? Should I refer to the social aspects?... after all, it's not the responsiblity of the institution to provide it, even though it's common in research places where there are many foriegners.

 

[sabre_ac]

Sbagman you and me clash more often than not...But for what its worth...
STICK IT UP EM, name names and take them down

 

[skilts]

I know nothing of your area of expertise and know less about the intricacies of academia. I don't want to downplay your concerns, but maybe your expectations were too high.

In the REAL world, maintenance of the job for oneself is all. Universities everywhere give lipservice to teaching. You would know by now that those who actually teach are looked upon as deluded fools. There is no career in teaching the unwashed.

If you were to post what you have written, you would be consigning yourself to never working in your INDUSTRY again. From what you have written, this may not be a bad thing.

Keep your mouth shut. There is no benefit to be gained in destroying your career, because you misunderstood the nature of the project. These ****wits, with whom you worked, are not as committed to the cause as you are, but in the international community, their word carries more weight then your's. You will be known as a whingeing 'Joe Nobody' who is 'difficult'.

Conversely, and I feel like I'm writing a script from 'Yes, Minister', you could take the 'brave' decision and attempt to alter the culture of several hundred years. Good luck.

 

[sbagman]

Originally posted by skilts
I know nothing of your area of expertise and know less about the intricacies of academia. I don't want to downplay your concerns, but maybe your expectations were too high.

In the REAL world, maintenance of the job for oneself is all. Universities everywhere give lipservice to teaching. You would know by now that those who actually teach are looked upon as deluded fools. There is no career in teaching the unwashed.

If you were to post what you have written, you would be consigning yourself to never working in your INDUSTRY again. From what you have written, this may not be a bad thing.

Keep your mouth shut. There is no benefit to be gained in destroying your career, because you misunderstood the nature of the project.

Conversely, and I feel like I'm writing a script from 'Yes, Minister', you could take the 'brave' decision and attempt to alter the culture of several of several hundred years. Good luck.

I don't realistically think this is going to change anything. I understand that poor work situations exist in the "real world". I honestly feel though that is situation goes beyond merely a "poor work environment" or an "unpleasant experience". I am working in what is apparently Italy's premier research institute. Yet I am unable to perform any work at all. I have made every effort to communicate, to show endevour, to produce results, yet I am completely ignored. It frustrates me to insanity that I simply cannot work. My scientific career has suffered enormously because I cannot produce results which I can publish. The fact that I am far from home, have no friends, and I'm threatened with immediate contract termination simply make matters worse.

I don't know what to do. I could have never believed I would find myself in such a situation as this. What can I say? I've run out of words. I can't work. This is bad. Something needs to be done.

 

[skilts]

BTW, I've further edited my previous post.

I admire your passion, but almost by definition, your community is a very select one. If you bag these people you aren't the one who is going to be believed. It seems to me you are well out of the situation. Easy for me to say, I know.

Maybe you should do some research about how the institution is perceived within that limited community and then you might establish that your perception of it is not a lone one. You are flirting with career suicide, but there is also the possibility that, down the track, when other people review your record, you'll be seen as the person who won't accept the ruling mediocrity. In some institutions, this is seen as a positive. If the others buy your services in the future, they're acknowledging they'll never own you.

Depends how you want to go. Don't envy your situation.

 

[sbagman]

Originally posted by skilts
Maybe you should do some research about how the institution is perceived within that limited community and then you might establish that your perception of it is not a lone one. You are flirting with career suicide, but there is also the possiblity that, down the track, when other people review your record, you'll be seen as the person who won't accept the ruling mediocrity. In some institutions, this is seen as a positive. If the others buy your services in the future, they're acknowledging they'll never own you.

What I know is based to a large extent on rumours, but here goes. This place seems to be known for its eccentric head Prof (referred to in the letter as Prof Brown). He's an aging man with a huge booming voice, an ability to insult others with impunity (in one meeting, he commented on a female professor's "sexual availability") and basically calls the tune. Due to the bum-licking nature of Italian science, everyone falls into line with whatever he says. Stories abound of people leaving this place in disgust... yet few actually say anything for fear of disrupting collaborations or commiting career suicide. My previous housemate was quite open about his hatred of this place (he recieved similar treatment) but again left quietly.

I filled out a survey for postdocs for the Scientist magazine in January. This survey was distributed around the world. The results were quantified, and of 15 countries, Italy finished 15th. The University of Florence finished 144th out of 150. Italian science is a corrupt joke. A friend of mine in physics was passed up for a professorship. She had 15 publications, while the researcher who was awarded the competition had none. In fact, the winner hadn't even finished her PhD.

I don't know how much of this is common knowledge. I'd prefer not to commit career suicide, but this year of "dead time" has almost killed it anyway, even with a ringing endorsement from the head Prof. If I can relate my experiences, preferably anonymously, it might contribute to this situation being exposed.

If this were just a small company somewhere I could accept this. But it's not. This is Italy's leading research institute (for this field anyway) and recieves millions of dollars each year from the EU. Yet I've worked in pizza restaurants which are better run. I appreciate the admiration of my passion, but really, all I ask is to be able to feel as if I've done a decent day's work.

 

[sbagman]

Survey can be found here

http://www.the-scientist.com/surveys/postdoc_030210_form.htm

 

[skilts]

Geez, you're a demanding bugger. Only jarkin'.

If, as you say, you have a detailed understanding of Italian language and culture, none of this should be a shock to you. Having never been to the place, I've limited knowledge. I have known some very intelligent Australians who have visited there severally and, of course, I've had some very close relationships with Italian migrants to Australia, and their offspring.

To me, what you have described, encapsulates the way that Italian society operates, if it can be called that. Nobody gives a toss, but it seems to work, because nobody gives a toss. Herein, is where I see your real problem. If you elucidate the difficulties you have encountered, my fear would be that people would say, "And...?"

I admire your concern, but I don't think you'll change much. The status quo is too entrenched. God, that's frustrating to write. My concern is that you might jeapordise your future career, with no prospect of achieving your goals.

Does what happens at this so-called place of higher learning mean that much to you, or is there a possibility you are being a tad precious and idealistic? I don't mean that cruelly, but what do you realistically hope to achieve, a coup within the department?

 

[sbagman]

Originally posted by skilts
Geez, you're a demanding bugger. Only jarkin'.

If, as you say, you have a detailed understanding of Italian language and culture, none of this should be a shock to you. Having never been to the place, I've limited knowledge. I have known some very intelligent Australians who have visited there severally and, of course, I've had some very close relationships with Italian migrants to Australia, and their offspring.

To me, what you have described, encapsulates the way that Italian society operates, if it can be called that. Nobody gives a toss, but it seems to work, because nobody gives a toss. Herein, is where I see your real problem. If you elucidate the difficulties you have encountered, my fear would be that people would say, "And...?"

I admire your concern, but I don't think you'll change much. The status quo is too entrenched. God, that's frustrating to write. My concern is that you might jeapordise your future career, with no prospect of achieving your goals.

Does what happens at this so-called place of higher learning mean that much to you, or is there a possibility you are being a tad precious and idealistic? I don't mean that cruelly, but what do you realistically hope to achieve, a coup within the department?

My first contact with Italian science came at the University of Perugia in 2000, when I first started posting on bigfooty. I was vaguely aware of the somewhat strange ways of doing things, but they were masked at the amazing social life I enjoyed. I came to Florence knowing the limitations of the science here, but hoping life in Italy would make up for it. Unfortunately, I've no friends or social life here, so that's laid bare the same things that existed in Perugia, which I might not have analysed too hard because I was to busy enjoying myself outside of work.

Why am I doing this? Perhaps I've missed the point somewhere. I feel an enormous sense of guilt that I come in to work and literally do nothing. Maybe this bothers me more than it bothers the heirachy here. But I'd rather be known as a *****-stirrer than lazy. There's this big hole now in my CV where I achieved nothing, and this is my way of explaining why. When someone asks why I didn't get a single publication out of my year here, I need to be able to say something.

I don't expect to achieve anything by this letter. I just don't feel as if I have any other options open to me. I can continue coming in to work and surfing the net all day and getting paid for it, or I can try to change something.

If me choosing the latter means I'm precious and idealistic, then so be it.

A scientific career lives and dies by the amount one publishes. I've not published in this year. This makes sitting back, doing nothing, and accepting the situation equally suicidal.

 

[skilts]

This will be my last post, for the time being, going to bed.

Sometimes, the best thing to do is nothing. In your case, I would see precipitous action as dangerous. I understand the ramifications for your career out of all this, but judging by your commitment, this won't be a problem in the future. A blip on your CV is more easily explained than the fact that your peers find you 'unsafe'. Writing what you propose will not alleviate your problems.

Sometimes you have to believe in your capabilities to jump the chasms which are not yet obvious. Goodness, gracious me, I'm pschychologising. My apologies.