Prediction New player roles 2021

Remove this Banner Ad

BigBreakfast

Premiership Player
Sep 19, 2019
4,543
7,158
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Lakeshow
I don't have doubts about Curnow. He'll be back and he'll be very good.

McGovern takes Plowman's role. Taller, quicker, better natural football ability, better offensive capabilities. An upgrade IMO but that is purely on potential and is yet to be proven. Plowman goes onto a smaller role but most likely gets pushed out of that by quicker more offensive players like Saad, Docherty, Williamson, SPS, Newman etc.

Marchbank plays as a 4th tall and running defender. He's an elite runner who is strong in the air. Weitering, Jones, McGovern, Marchbank. Two KPP. Two tall mobile and quick pockets. Rotate three running half backs. Docherty, Saad and another and that's very similar to many premiership backlines I have seen. Richmond recently. Collingwood 2010 just off the top of my head.

McGovern needs to be a main focus if up forward or play in defence.

Owies to play on the ball in the reserves first. If he goes well enough then we look at a senior spot.

Coaches will reward effort, competitiveness and results. Players need to go up a gear and we could be a big deal again.
Can’t see Plowman’s role changing. Gov will stay forward, at least until Charlie is back. Jeremy Cameron has had years to refine his instincts in the backline, we don’t have time for Mitch to develop that, especially when Marchy probably does it better anyway. Would hope that Gov is healthy and repays the faith shown in him thus far.
 

gbatman

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 26, 2008
12,778
12,453
Behind You...
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Justice League
Can’t see Plowman’s role changing. Gov will stay forward, at least until Charlie is back. Jeremy Cameron has had years to refine his instincts in the backline, we don’t have time for Mitch to develop that, especially when Marchy probably does it better anyway. Would hope that Gov is healthy and repays the faith shown in him thus far.
Hopefully he finds a spot in the side, he's a very talented player who IMO hasn't put it together and a lot of that has to do with the role he is given. Definitely not compatible playing the third tall option next to McKay and Casboult. If the coach can find a way to make that work then he has done well. IMO adding part time ruck to the role is something to look at. As for a third tall forward I am leaning more towards Silvagni. Silvagnis isn't as good in the air and with his kicking for goal but he offers so much more at ground level. It's a tricky situation.

As for Marchbank. He's got to play IMO. Offers something we don't have and this is one of my criticisms of having Plowman as the third tall. When Jones and Weitering are more focused on defending their man we don't have a third tall who can drop off and help out the key position players and take an intercepting mark. Plowman doesn't really do that. Marchbank and Potentially McGovern would.

At no time has Brackets shown he is fit, durable or willing to work himself to exhaustion to help out team mates, all the things that Plowman brings week in week out.

You are saying he could be a better option than Plowman based on potential? This is the Plowman that finishes consistently inside the top 5 in our B&F and held Danger, Dusty, Papley, Cameron, Butler and Gray to one goal between them ... albeit that Gray goal was costly after a bad turnover on the wing from our mids.

Plowman doesn’t have the raw top speed of Brackets but runs midfielder distances, McGovern won’t get to choose when he rests in defense, he will need to almost double his running capacity to get close.

Plowman is durable, McGovern broke down consistently last season leaving us one short in several games. When this happens in defence then Weitering and Jones will have to play 100% game time.

Would rather our defenders be capable of defending, not picked because their instinct is to attack. Saad is the offensive weapon out of defence, capably supported by Doc and SPS ... Weitering no slouch either. Plowman is the guy that covers these attacking moves so we at least provide a contest after a turnover. If Brackets joins in the attacks, it leaves us dangerously exposed on the turnover.

Seen nothing from McGovern that suggests he has the ability to sacrifice his own game to shut someone else out of the contest or is willing to work hard enough both physically and mentally for an entire game. Can’t pick and choose when to chase in defense.

If ... and this is a huge if ... McGovern becomes an upgraded defensive option for Plowman, sides will find it almost impossible to score against us. There would be at least a dozen sides that would offer Plowman a contract if, despite the pivotal role he plays for us, he was pushed out of the senior side.
McGovern would have to get fitter. He's going to have to get fitter to play the third tall forward role anyway so lets see if that happens there. Plowman is a good stopper but he's also a weakness in our side as mentioned above. He's not a great third tall option because he's not overly good in the air and not an interceptor. I don't think Plowman will go well in a side playing as the 4th tallest defender week in week out but that remains to be seen as well. Plowman doesn't get many goals kicked on him but he gets exposed enough. Often taken up the ground and exposed for pace and mobility or taken to the goalsquare but still he does ok. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often but I feel that is more about modern football tactics. My issue isn't what he does it's what he doesn't do. He stops his man, that's great but it's the lack of offensive stuff that is the issue.

The fact is if our defence is to go ahead it needs more run and it needs 3rd tall options who are going to be able to compete better against the KPPs and give our big guys a chop out as well as being able to drop back and take an intercepting mark and this is what we are missing and Plowman doesn't provide that. I see Marchbank and McGovern as capable of this. The trick is to get their defensive capabilities up to Plowman's level which IMO is very doable as well as their fitness.

Durability is an issue and with some individuals it's a problem. Just got to hope like with Williamson this season they come good.

Plowman is nowhere near as good as some on here make out to be. Finishing top 5 in a lost that's been regularly bottom 4 and a little better this season does not scream gun play. You have a defence that needs a genuine third tall option and more run and rebound, it's probably going to be the guy who lacks speed and height and is already in that role who is on shakey ground and I don't think changing his role works well.

Plowman is a good stopper but he's limited in his abilities, in terms of the top 3rd tall defenders out there he's probably just above average which is good but doesn't mean we should not be looking for an elite player to play that role. We have Plowman who is just above average and limited in some aspects of that role, we have two players who on traits and potential are elite in that role but because Plowman is above average we shouldn't try the other two who could go past him? That doesn't make sense to me.

The way I see it is Marchbank will definitely play in 2020. McGovern will get opportunity in defence and IMO it won't take long to see that's a good fit. Then you get a delimmer where Plowman drops down the order and his role chances to be competing with out smaller defenders like Docherty, Saad, SPS, Williamson, Newman and it becomes clear he is not as good as them. Or, if he is as good as you say he is then he will.

I don't think we can sit back and say "he's pretty good, his spot is solidified". I think if we find taller, quicker options like McGovern and Marchbank are then the only reason they don't play ahead of Plowman is because they are bog ordinary at stopping their man and that is something we are going to have to be gutsy and look into and as if you say other clubs would want Plowman then so be it, he's contracted, come with a good offer and we will use that to finish the last piece of the puzzle or keep him as depth.

Our backline is good but it's not top side good. It needs more pace and a third tall who can run like hell but is better in the air and offers something offensively.

IMO I can see our defence being very strong next season and there being some debate on who should get games. There will be some ripping players who miss out.

McGovern in the ruck? At only 190cm he's going to be up against opposition ruckman 10-15cm taller.

I think Teague mentioned that McKay will be doing some ruck work over the pre-season, so I would much prefer that.

On SM-G930F using BigFooty.com mobile app
Exactly, What Richmond have proven is that a second tall lumbering player on the team is a liability. If Grigg at 190cm was a good option then surely a 191cm McGovern with a much higher leap is also a good option. The second ruckman is better off not being a ruckman unless they excel in other roles. It's useless to add a big lumbering player to a forward line of Curnow and McKay especially with McGovern and Silvagni likely to be there as well. Far too tall. It's better to be too short in the ruck than too tall up forward. It's better to smash teams on the rebound than it is to be smashed on the rebound. We have a tall forward line, I want us to embrace the shorter mobile second ruck tactic. Use our rucks more defensive. Have Dekoning sit behind play and help out in defence more, use Mckay or someone to ruck in the forward line. We did that extremely poorly last season.

I don't think Gov has the commitment, discipline and concentration levels to force Plow out

Casboult is still a valuable, durable banger, much more than Gov has ever shown in terms a chopout ruck

Hopefully the club adds Marsh, who I see as a versatile player, similar to McIntosh at the Tigers, who would be a better replacement for Levi
Truth is none of us know any of this for sure because it hasn't been tried. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Our list has grown and improved a lot. All the young guys who aren't in the firsts will be young raw up and comers. We're getting to the point where the players in our team we are looking to replace are no longer hopeless basket cases with obvious deficiencies but players who are good solid players who just lack a bit. That's why it's getting tough and that's why some mainstays will be out of the side if our list rebuild has been successful.

We don't know McGovern's defensive capabilities or concentration levels. I've seen nothing to suggest he hasn't got all that. IMO the thing missing from McGovern's game is a defined role.

Casboult will play because of injuries but he is not best 22 and is not a part of the future. His part time ruck and the few marks he takes a game is useful but the lack of mobility he brings to an already tall forward line is a problem. I'm not seeing teams with a Casboult type having massive success. We all know Carlton lacks run and pressure.

I hope the club finds someone, I don't feel comfortable that delisting Macready was the right call.
 
Last edited:

CFCtragic

Debutant
Oct 9, 2010
122
354
Munno Parra
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Sturt
I don’t think there will be too many, Teague seems pretty sure of the structure he wants already. The team didn’t change a real lot last year from the 22 that we played in round one.

Williamson is one who could see a change. The wing role under Teague is a gut running role where you stay back from the contest and get ready to sprint either forward or back as required. If our defence can cover the loss of him this role would suit Williamson well.

I would still like to have a third tall defender in an intercept marking role, especially as we are prone to some big lapses during games where the opposition get right on top of us and the ball goes into their forward line with ease. If Marchbank doesn’t make it back you could definitely see McGovern getting a chance there.

The last one is not an individual player but a team thing, last year to me it seemed we played a four man on ball rotation and a three man wing rotation. I like the wing rotation but I really thought we cost ourselves with the midfielders not being given enough rest, they were f’ed at the end of the year and it’s also not like we had a forward line full of Stephen Milne types. Fisher, Cuningham, Gibbons and Martin were all capable of playing more midfield minutes but instead we generally let four blokes do the work of 6-7. I’d like to see our midfielders rotate more often with our forwards next year.
I agree 100% with your analysis however I'm not sure of the proposed solution. In principle I disagree with rotating midfielders through the forward line, for mine a forward is as much a specialty skill as defence is, and running the midfield through there rarely works. Personally, I would like us to use the bench to rotate a second-tier midfield something like Cas, Murph, Gibbons and (Fog, Newnes, etc) with a split something like 10 (1st tier), 10(2nd tier), 10 1st teir), quarter time break.

It would be this 2nd tier rotation that I would hope the likes of Cuningham, Dow, etc would work their way into.

IMHO constantly resting the mids in the forward line is desultory to the development of our forwards as placing tired players forward often results in a drop in work rate, mids play like mids and crowd the forward line by trying to get to the drop of every entry, rather than sometimes sacrificing a possesion to open up space for others, amounst other issues.

It also hurts accountability, as how can you hold a forward line accountable for our scoring and forward effieciency, when they are constantly rotated off the ground so non forwards can rest on the ground.

If we are going to take home the cup, we need to build a premiership quality forward line sooner rather than later both gels together and is responsible for our scoring effieciency.

The only exception I would consider is to swap Jack with Ed to run with an opposition Cripps-like opponent, Ed can struggle with the bigger / stronger mids and has show himself to be a decent alternative forward. And Jack has shown that he can run with these larger bodied mids, but would struggle with the faster guys.

Anyway just my view.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

HARKER

Hall of Famer
Oct 15, 2008
49,694
85,776
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
For developments sake, most of he trialed roles will likely come about via the reserves.
Sometimes it just has to play out that way and especially so if the list isn't in perfect balance.

Players that may be interesting to watch here are; Philp, O'Brien and possibly Marchbank if he doesn't make it into the main squad day one.
 

Milshouse

Debutant
Sep 5, 2020
84
148
AFL Club
Carlton
I think ed should take the other wing role with walsh on the other, i like the idea of 2 hard gut running players on the wing, if Williams works out as a midfielder, he cripps and setterfield start as first choice mids, then rotations
M2c
 

BigBreakfast

Premiership Player
Sep 19, 2019
4,543
7,158
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Lakeshow
I think ed should take the other wing role with walsh on the other, i like the idea of 2 hard gut running players on the wing, if Williams works out as a midfielder, he cripps and setterfield start as first choice mids, then rotations
M2c
The gut running works but, Ed lacks the disposal skills to impact as a wingman. Quality wings historically impact offensively with run and carry and as a linking player in offensive thrusts. Walsh, Willo, Newnes all have the same or similar aerobic capacity and better attacking skills.
 

Milshouse

Debutant
Sep 5, 2020
84
148
AFL Club
Carlton
The gut running works but, Ed lacks the disposal skills to impact as a wingman. Quality wings historically impact offensively with run and carry and as a linking player in offensive thrusts. Walsh, Willo, Newnes all have the same or similar aerobic capacity and better attacking skills.
I hear ya, if the 3 i stated above are the starting mids, and as many people feel that cripps setters and ed is to slow or one dimensional hence adding Williams, then where does ed play, hes one wood is midfield, i also dont think ed disposal is as terrible as people say, hes not josh kelly but who is, plus wingers play defensively and offensively
Of the players u mention newnes hasnt earned the right to tie eds boots, and williamson has not proved to be a full time winger yet, and walsh on the other wing, then there is Murphy who is a defensive liability, sps unproven fulltime midfielder and earmarked for the backlined, fisher earmarked for forward duties, cunners still not consistent enough yet
Just my opinion of course
 

CJMB

Premiership Player
Aug 30, 2017
3,609
12,180
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Thy posted this elsewhere, but aside from the articles main premise of Williams' playing midfield, which we all knew already, there's a little tidbit towards the end that deserves to be mentioned in here:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/williams-can-be-carlton-s-missing-midfield-link-20210115-p56uj5.html said:
The Blues' Jack Martin is also training with the midfield group at the moment as his toughness and versatility is an asset and Barker is supremely confident Dow can eventually become the player supporters hoped he could when he was chosen at pick three in the 2017 national draft.
 

CJMB

Premiership Player
Aug 30, 2017
3,609
12,180
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Stands to reason he will be at the forward of centre stoppages and match up depending some centre bounce time. Kid is silky as .. generally makes something happen when he is near the ball because he is quick, strong in the core and evasive.
And I feel like he's a better kick inside 50 than actually kicking for goal...
 

SurreyBlue

Norm Smith Medallist
May 1, 2002
8,752
10,181
AFL Club
Carlton
I hear ya, if the 3 i stated above are the starting mids, and as many people feel that cripps setters and ed is to slow or one dimensional hence adding Williams, then where does ed play, hes one wood is midfield, i also dont think ed disposal is as terrible as people say, hes not josh kelly but who is, plus wingers play defensively and offensively
Of the players u mention newnes hasnt earned the right to tie eds boots, and williamson has not proved to be a full time winger yet, and walsh on the other wing, then there is Murphy who is a defensive liability, sps unproven fulltime midfielder and earmarked for the backlined, fisher earmarked for forward duties, cunners still not consistent enough yet
Just my opinion of course
Starting Midfield: Cripps, Setterfield, Walsh
Wingers: SpS & Williams (both do run and must run deep defensively and offensively).
Perfect mixture of inside grunt and outside run and carry!!

Rotations from: Williamson, Murphy, Martin, Fisher, Dow, O'brien, Kennedy, Stocker & Fogarty

Backline: Plowman Jones Marchbank Docherty Weitering Saad
Forwardline: Martin Casboult Fisher JSoS McKay Betts
 

Metalcrusher

Bush Chook
Jan 22, 2015
23,996
54,320
Kalgoorlie
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Blackburn United EPL ... sorta
Starting Midfield: Cripps, Setterfield, Walsh
Wingers: SpS & Williams (both do run and must run deep defensively and offensively).
Perfect mixture of inside grunt and outside run and carry!!

Rotations from: Williamson, Murphy, Martin, Fisher, Dow, O'brien, Kennedy, Stocker & Fogarty

Backline: Plowman Jones Marchbank Docherty Weitering Saad
Forwardline: Martin Casboult Fisher JSoS McKay Betts
Just need Setters to get the pill a bit more, without checking I think he averaged around 15 disposals last year ... needs to get that to around 20 touches a game to have more impact.
 

CJMB

Premiership Player
Aug 30, 2017
3,609
12,180
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Just need Setters to get the pill a bit more, without checking I think he averaged around 15 disposals last year ... needs to get that to around 20 touches a game to have more impact.
Gotta remove those low possession games from his output and he'll be ok. Last year he averaged 15.3 but had 6 in rd 1, 8 in rd 3 & rd 9, a couple of 13s & 14s. The year before averaged 16.5 but also had an 8, a 12, two 13s. 13 of his 34 games have been sub-15, if he can get his 'floor' up by 1 a quarter and maintain or lift his 'ceiling' (he's had 24 three times) he'll be a great contributor.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Remove this Banner Ad