Nick Suban - When?

[FreoRicci]

Sorry but questioning Suban's output on a night when pretty much all 22 were under par. He had a brilliant game against Adelaide and on top of a uninterrupted preseason he is building. Saying Weller deserve to play when none of us have seen him apart from WAFL form is immature tbh. We all know WAFL form hardly translate to solid AFL form and many players of the past are prime example of this. Maybe next season or beyond Blakely and Weller will be considered.

 

[Deathly]

Why does thread still exist? If all the passengers last night actually put in the effort and had the same drive as Suban, even if it doesn't have the greatest result sometimes we would of won last night.

 

[Latro]

Why does thread still exist? If all the passengers last night actually put in the effort and had the same drive as Suban, even if it doesn't have the greatest result sometimes we would of won last night.

So if all our players had 12 possessions last night we would of won?

 

[Banker]

So if all our players had 12 possessions last night we would of won?

lol exactly. Suban was missing for most of the game like usual. Does 1 tough thing and people are under the illusion he is playing well.

Missed an easy goal and caught holding the ball seems to be his usual output.

 

[Deathly]

So if all our players had 12 possessions last night we would of won?

"effort and had the same drive"

The point I made about players work rate off the ball is irrelevant to stats, next time tho'

 

[Grandstan]

I've noticed Suban always plays well when the team plays well. When the team doesn't play well he's a passenger. He had to stand up tonight and he didn't.

His best game this year was probably against the Crows just a week ago when we had our backs up against the wall. Your claim just doesn't stand up.

 

[ydraw]

Hence why we drafted mids when the world bet the farm on us taking talls in Lever/Goddard etc. Best available my hat - they wouldnt have got Weller etx if they didnt think a need was near.

Meanwhile all those mids we drafted are playing for Peel and we have zero key position players to bring into the side.

 

[Cayman Docker]

I love the guy - heart, guts and grunt. He seems to have a knack for showing up when the games on the line and seems to thrive when the pressure is on. Seems to be there when it matters.

 

[ydraw]

Why does thread still exist? If all the passengers last night actually put in the effort and had the same drive as Suban, even if it doesn't have the greatest result sometimes we would of won last night.

AFL doesn't award premierships for effort and drive, you also need to be good.

 

[andrew99]

I love the guy - heart, guts and grunt.

Ok, I'll concede to you on that one.

He seems to have a knack for showing up when the games on the line and seems to thrive when the pressure is on. Seems to be there when it matters.

Is that you Suban?

He wasn't there on Friday night.

Suban appears to play well when it doesn't matter, IE when the rest of the team is playing well. I've rarely, if ever, seen him go against the trend of the game and drag us over the line. He is the very definition of a passenger.

If he has a knack for anything it's getting caught with the ball.

 

[andrew99]

AFL doesn't award premierships for effort and drive, you also need to be good.

Exactly, Suban is the archetype of a trier. We want triers at our club but it has to be attached to ability in order to get the outcomes we want.

Great club man but mediocre footballer.

People here seem desperate to salvage the future of Suban. They will latch onto every little flash of good Suban does and try and use that to color Suban's overall contribution. Instead we should view Suban's output holistically, and when you do that he comes up well short. It's fanboyism at its finest. Wake up to reality.

 

[andrew99]

His best game this year was probably against the Crows just a week ago when we had our backs up against the wall. Your claim just doesn't stand up.

This is called an anomaly. I'm talking about what normally happens. You don't base your opinion of a player off one game, or one goal, or one amazing play. The fact Suban is such a contentious selection, a fringe player, at 26 says it all.

Then you have Hawthorn who manage to include the likes of 18yo Billy Hartung, who is playing quite well mind you, and still manage to be in premiership contention. We never get to see our kids play to same degree teams such as Hawthorn, who are lauded for their player development model, do. And you wonder why the Hawks' kids do so well? They play them.

 

[poshman]

Tried to stay away from this thread since Friday so I didn't just react. Having done that and on reflection Siban was absolute crap Friday night. Turned the ball over with reckless kicks. Disappeared for long stretches. Kicked behind leading forwards causing direct turnovers and at least one easy run out of the forward fifty. And gave away a bunch of frees and laid only a couple of tackles.

For a trier... A 'hard player' an effort guy there wasn't much to be impressed with. He wasn't alone Friday night but he was bottom three and it was a fairly typical performance from him. Typically poor.

 

[go_the_dockers]

I think Weller or Blakely have earned a spot in his roll. Give them 2 weeks each. If they don't perform then try De Boer or suban again.

 

[Stronzo]

His form line is all over the place.

I hope someone is pushing for some of the young blokes to get a run. Surely our development model would dictate this.

 

[DudleyDocker]

His form line is all over the place.

I hope someone is pushing for some of the young blokes to get a run. Surely our development model would dictate this.

Is that in reply to a particular quote Stronzo? Whose form are you discussing?

 

[Stronzo]

Is that in reply to a particular quote Stronzo? Whose form are you discussing?

Suban's.

 

[purplerunsdeep]

Haha

Na fair game

 

[Lach72]

He probably got our only completely clear clearance of the game. Cleared the congestion beautifully, looks up....



And kicks it to a 3 on 1 against...FML

 

[darkshines]

This is called an anomaly. I'm talking about what normally happens. You don't base your opinion of a player off one game, or one goal, or one amazing play. The fact Suban is such a contentious selection, a fringe player, at 26 says it all.

Then you have Hawthorn who manage to include the likes of 18yo Billy Hartung, who is playing quite well mind you, and still manage to be in premiership contention. We never get to see our kids play to same degree teams such as Hawthorn, who are lauded for their player development model, do. And you wonder why the Hawks' kids do so well? They play them.

Not really that fair a comparison - Hill and Hartung have played in a role the Hawks dont have otherwise (outside speed), so theyve almost had to play early.

Sicily O'Brien Woodward Hallahan Anderson etc have had to bide their time just like ours have. I bet their supporters have asked at times why Woodward or Hallahan werent getting picked in front of a fringe 22er like Shiels.

 

[DudleyDocker]

Suban's.

Ah, OK. Agree 100%, would love to see some game time into others while maybe "freshening up" Suban. He has been good at times this year but I think has reached his level of competence - time to start seeing what others have to offer.

 

[salim malik]

Ah, OK. Agree 100%, would love to see some game time into others while maybe "freshening up" Suban. He has been good at times this year but I think has reached his level of competence - time to start seeing what others have to offer.

I know some on here hate the term role player but that is exactly what Suban is.If he ticks the team and his KPI's he will stay in the side.

 

[manpurple]

Ok I'm going to say this here not solely because Suban was carp after all he wasn't alone. But on the run, unpressured, 35 out, directly in front and to miss by that much? I has to go down as one of the worst clangers of the night. Be others were carp tonight and the following applies to them too.

I am sick of hearing about "great effort". I sit on a school board and have to listen to teachers tell me that they didn't fail little Jonny "cos he tries hard". Just because he spends lots of time thinking about the answer does not mean he got it right when saying 2+2=5. I understand that RTB's job is to convince the players that those with the best effort get to play but the selection should not be about who tries hard but who is going to win us games and IMHO there are good players, meh players and what the hell (WTH) players.
Thankfully the days of lots of WTH are behind us. My concern is more along the lines that we are to reluctant be aggressive with the meh. I know that there is all that "playing the role" stuff which conveniently stops critics from tearing strips off people not delivering on the stats ledger. But the meh is still the meh. So let me clarify, the meh is anyone for whom there is a player in the WAFL who can do the same job to within 5% of the player in question. In contrast the "good" are those without an equivalent replacement (ie best for their role) IMHO these are McPharlin, MJ, Hill, D Pearce (yes I believe his role is different to Hill's, just like I do for sonny and balla), Fyfe, Mundy, Pav, Balla, Walters. Barlow and Neal are close but cancel each other out. The rest of the team is subject to change IMHO and there shouldn't be any guaranteed spots there no mater the win loss equation.

 

[DudleyDocker]

I know some on here hate the term role player but that is exactly what Suban is.If he ticks the team and his KPI's he will stay in the side.

Agree, but I think we have too many "role players" who don't have the ability to adapt and change when things are not working.

Suban knows one way to play and if that's working he's fine - if it's not working he has no other gear to go to.

No right side, one paced and no tricks in the bag. Hopefully he will be superseded at some point.

 

[DudleyDocker]

I should also say salim malik that I generally agree with you and think you are a fantastic contributor to these forums - particularly with training reports and Peel updates.

Generally, but not always