Not Just Ratten Responsible.

[mediumsizered]

Sometimes a sign the players have lost confidence in the gameplan

Hang on a second. Apparently our players lost confidence in Pagan's gameplan, so he was sacked. Now it is being suggested the players may have lost confidence in Ratt's gameplan. Is the tail wagging the dog? How many coaches will we need to sack before the players decide they have confidence in a gameplan?

 

[gbatman]

well Pagan's game plan was stuck in another era, I'm not sure Ratten's game plan is either. We have been waiting a long time to play the type of footy that the top sides play and win flags with.

 

[mediumsizered]

well Pagan's game plan was stuck in another era, I'm not sure Ratten's game plan is either. We have been waiting a long time to play the type of footy that the top sides play and win flags with.

For most of that time we have been waiting we haven't had the 'cattle'. Would a new coach suddenly turn Hampson into a quality ruckman? Or Carlos into an elite FF? Or instantly put another 50 games experience into Yarran, Hendo, Garlett, Robbo, Army, Joseph, Jacobs, Lucas etc? I'm doubting a new coach would be able to give Murphy back the pre-season that he missed, or prevent Kreuzer from going through 12 months rehab. Or ensure that Bower's quad injury didn't keep flaring up, or prevent Walks from suffering a shoulder injury in the middle of the best form of his career.

 

[gbatman]

For most of that time we have been waiting we haven't had the 'cattle'. Would a new coach suddenly turn Hampson into a quality ruckman? Or Carlos into an elite FF? Or instantly put another 50 games experience into Yarran, Hendo, Garlett, Robbo, Army, Joseph, Jacobs, Lucas etc? I'm doubting a new coach would be able to give Murphy back the pre-season that he missed, or prevent Kreuzer from going through 12 months rehab. Or ensure that Bower's quad injury didn't keep flaring up, or prevent Walks from suffering a shoulder injury in the middle of the best form of his career.

The only problem going out and getting a new coach is the risk of getting someone worse or just as bad.

A new coach might teach our forwards how/when/where to lead and how to creat space for each other. They might teach our midfield where to run when we go forward and how to play when we come to a congested forwardline. A new coach might teach us how to position so we can defend the midfield and get back and help the defence. Hey, we might learn to play a well balanced game with a defencive aspect, smarter forward entry and smarter forward positioning. I am not sure the things you have mentioned are really our problem.

I would like to see a turn over of assistant coaches. I would love to get Lloyd as a forward coach. As much as I hate Essendon, all their explayers are having good results as coaches at the moment with their sides. Lloyd was a genius forward, had a load of tricks and could really play. I think he is rated highly as a coach, I think has an AIS role. Also Lloyd has expierence as playing as a marking tall. IMO he would bring loads to the Carlton team as an ex player from another club, a successful club, as an ex tall and as a great forward. Imagine him educating Henderson, Waite, O'hAilpin, Casboult and Donaldson and teaching our other players how to make space for them. That would be excellent.

Not that I have anything against Montgomery as I think our defence has been ok although our midfield has not been helping them but I would take SOS. He's had a lot of expierence at the Saints and might be able to bring some of the tactics that have brought them success.

 

[starchamber]

Carlton's tactical and coaching blunders are not just Ratten's fault. A lot of what happens on the field is quite good but how our midfield plays at times and how our forward structures itself can be quite disgraceful. While Ratten is head coach he is not the only one to blame for the unorganised rabble that is our forward set up. He is not the only person watching over the team from the box on match day.

Matthew Lappin (Forward Coach), Robert Harvey (Midfield Coach) and Mark Riley (Midfield Coach) must be made accountable for the rot that we are seeing. Obviously there was always going to be a lot of work to do restructuring the forward half after Fevola was traded. I just see so many stupid things happen in our forward area and saw just about all of it tonight. If that is the structure and set up that Matthew Lappin is going with and if that is the way Lappin wants our forwards to play then it's time we moved him on and got another forward coach.
Also as for our midfielders and why they are happy to run forward and deep forward but not set up defencivly and push back into defence is something that I would like to hear explained from Riley and Harvey.

Our forward setup and the way our midfield runs is hurting us both defencively and offencively, it's a disgrace. As good of a player Lappin was he might not be much of a coach if he can't see and rectify all these things that are wrong with our forward half. If I had a choice I would chase Matthew Lloyd as forward coach. I believe we have a load of talent up forward and it's because of that we have done any good at all, it's just our structure when exploited gives our team no chance, that's why when we lose we lose big, score low and concede loads.

So before we all get on Ratten's case, just remember it might not be all his fault.

I agree maybe need to get a broom and clean up the place.We should bring back John Elliot we were good when he was their except for the draft penalties at his time.

 

[Jock]

Ratts is very, very lucky - That Knights is wearing all the heat with the scum atm.

We drop this weeks game and especially if North could find a win and he can expect to take all of knights heat next week.

I'm nervous for us and him, we need to win for everyones sake.

 

[gbatman]

If we miss the 8 Rats and probably many of the rest will be gone. Even if we just scrape in there could be trouble.

 

[chaser1]

It is clear that Ratts and co, have the inability to react to the opposition tactics and rectify situations.

This happens bc of 2 things. 1. You are telling the players what to do, but the players cannot do it. That means they are not listening to your instructions or the way you communicate it to them, it is not comprehending with their mindset. Hence panic no compusure,etc etc. You cannot drop the whole team, and the end of the day the buck stops with the coaching staff. Mark riley, Lappin and co, have to step up or bye bye simple as that. In fact changes should have been last year to the coaching staff but nothing happened.

2.Our coaching staff lacks the skills required to makes us play with a consistent structure and game plan. Hence, results like the Bulldogs game will inevitably follow.

My opinion is we have a combination of both factors happening at our club at the moment. How do you rectify it, well the coaching staff and the players have to step up or coaching staff and players up for trade at years end. You cannot keep on playing like this without change happening!! Simple as that, 7 games to go before our board makes some tough decisions!!!

 

[gbatman]

When's Mich Malthouse out of contract? He has a bottom 8 quality list in the top4 playing premiership quality footy. At least he would shake things up at Carlton and get them to change the game plan and play the type of footy I want us to play, the type we need to play to win a grand final.

 

[Aphrodite]

If we miss the 8 Rats and probably many of the rest will be gone. Even if we just scrape in there could be trouble.

Didn't the Club just extend Ratten's contract for another 2 years?

I remember reading it somewhere & I think it was just after we beat the Saints gb.

 

[gbatman]

we did, god no! Have we lost touch with the modern game...

 

[Aphrodite]

we did, god no! Have we lost touch with the modern game...

I am pretty sure we did.

 

[gbatman]

oh well, maybe an overhaul of the assistants. This would be safer and more likely benificial.

 

[Aphrodite]

Just found it gb .........

From TC ........

Ratten's contract confirmed

 

[Aphrodite]

oh well, maybe an overhaul of the assistants. This would be safer and more likely benificial.

That will probably happen at the end of the season anyway.

Would love SOS back at the club

 

[gbatman]

My wish list would be SOS and Lloyd. Would prefer plyers not from carlton and who have had success in their careers.

 

[Salaryman]

My wish list would be SOS and Lloyd. Would prefer plyers not from carlton and who have had success in their careers.

 

[Keyza]

Didn't the Club just extend Ratten's contract for another 2 years?

I remember reading it somewhere & I think it was just after we beat the Saints gb.

Ratten was originally signed for 2 years with an option for a third. The option was approved just recently. He is contracted until the end of 2011.

 

[Aphrodite]

Ratten was originally signed for 2 years with an option for a third. The option was approved just recently. He is contracted until the end of 2011.

Hence the ? at the end of the 1st sentence in my post.
I was aware of the 3rd year option.

Refer to post 39.

 

[chaser1]

How do extend Ratts contract, until 2011 they did this after round 12, when we beat St kilda and Geelong. Why? Bc Kernahan and Ratts belong to a boys club and it hasnt changed.

What it just shows is a lack of understanding about the modern game, and unproffesional behaviour. Why not wait to the end of the season and decide then!

That means if we decide to sack him we have to pay him out, then again i think Essendon did the same. Both clubs in my opnion are wrong in doing this!!

 

[gbatman]

As good of players as Ratten, Kernahan, Harvey and Lappen were I have my doubts about their understanding of the modern game and that they have any idea on coaching and recognising what's wrong with our side. If all of us can see the problem, which to me is clear, and a whole footy club and a team of coaches can't see the problem then there are serious problems there. We might have to break up the old excarlton players club of Rattan, Bradley, Kernahan, Teague, Williams and Lappin. It's not really the way to go about things, clubs usually succeed with coaches from a good range of other clubs and coaching looks to be clearly our problem.

I remember hearing Jason Dunstall say something along the lines of "the Hawthorn way of doing things is not the way to do things any more" and sourcing coaches with backgrounds at other clubs. They were talking about what happened when they got Alistair Clarkson who has taken Hawthorn to the Top and won a premiership.

 

[mediumsizered]

So there are those who want to sack a coach who looks like getting us into our 2nd consecutive finals series (Parkin was our last coach to achieve this in 1999/2000), even after losing our leading goalkicker of the previous 7 seasons & our most experienced midfielder & in a season when Bower, Walker, Kreuzer have all missed chunks of the season, Waite has been in trouble with the MRP on a couple of occasions & Murphy had a very limited pre-season, including having surgery.

Combined with this we have been running a ruck division of Kreuzer/Jacobs & now Jacobs/Hampson. Our forward line has consisted of 2 novice KP forwards & 3 players with less than 50 games experience on the flanks (Yarran, Garlett & Robinson). Not to mention our defence containing at various stages Armfield, Joseph, White, Lucas, Anderson & not forgetting the 21 year old Gibbs. Even our 2 best KP defenders, Jamo & Bower have yet to play 50 games (both are scheduled to achieve this milestone this week).

I believe some supporters are very guilty of overestimating where our list is at. To put this into some perspective, the Bulldogs team we played on Sunday had approx 770 more games' experience than our team, Geelong's team at the weekend had over 900 games more experience than our team & St Kilda's team had 600 games more experience than our team. These stats might seem just meaningless numbers to some, but it tells us a lot about at what stage our list is at compared to the best teams of the last 3-4 years.

 

[ESKIE]

So there are those who want to sack a coach who looks like getting us into our 2nd consecutive finals series (Parkin was our last coach to achieve this in 1999/2000), even after losing our leading goalkicker of the previous 7 seasons & our most experienced midfielder & in a season when Bower, Walker, Kreuzer have all missed chunks of the season, Waite has been in trouble with the MRP on a couple of occasions & Murphy had a very limited pre-season, including having surgery.

Combined with this we have been running a ruck division of Kreuzer/Jacobs & now Jacobs/Hampson. Our forward line has consisted of 2 novice KP forwards & 3 players with less than 50 games experience on the flanks (Yarran, Garlett & Robinson). Not to mention our defence containing at various stages Armfield, Joseph, White, Lucas, Anderson & not forgetting the 21 year old Gibbs. Even our 2 best KP defenders, Jamo & Bower have yet to play 50 games (both are scheduled to achieve this milestone this week).

I believe some supporters are very guilty of overestimating where our list is at. To put this into some perspective, the Bulldogs team we played on Sunday had approx 770 more games' experience than our team, Geelong's team at the weekend had over 900 games more experience than our team & St Kilda's team had 600 games more experience than our team. These stats might seem just meaningless numbers to some, but it tells us a lot about at what stage our list is at compared to the best teams of the last 3-4 years.

Yep, have to agree with this, spot on

 

[blue gunslinger]

So there are those who want to sack a coach who looks like getting us into our 2nd consecutive finals series (Parkin was our last coach to achieve this in 1999/2000), even after losing our leading goalkicker of the previous 7 seasons & our most experienced midfielder & in a season when Bower, Walker, Kreuzer have all missed chunks of the season, Waite has been in trouble with the MRP on a couple of occasions & Murphy had a very limited pre-season, including having surgery.

Combined with this we have been running a ruck division of Kreuzer/Jacobs & now Jacobs/Hampson. Our forward line has consisted of 2 novice KP forwards & 3 players with less than 50 games experience on the flanks (Yarran, Garlett & Robinson). Not to mention our defence containing at various stages Armfield, Joseph, White, Lucas, Anderson & not forgetting the 21 year old Gibbs. Even our 2 best KP defenders, Jamo & Bower have yet to play 50 games (both are scheduled to achieve this milestone this week).

I believe some supporters are very guilty of overestimating where our list is at. To put this into some perspective, the Bulldogs team we played on Sunday had approx 770 more games' experience than our team, Geelong's team at the weekend had over 900 games more experience than our team & St Kilda's team had 600 games more experience than our team. These stats might seem just meaningless numbers to some, but it tells us a lot about at what stage our list is at compared to the best teams of the last 3-4 years.

so in summary the more WA players the better we are?

 

[mediumsizered]

so in summary the more WA players the better we are?

WA players have been an integral part of many of our premierships, so they certainly don't do any harm (mind you we have been underwhelmed by the performances of the likes of Ironmonger, Jez, Shine etc).