Not Worth A Thread - Random Bulldog Discussion - Part 2

[weltschmerz]

Dogs 13, to not take the Jamarra thread off topic, could you please share a summary of what the HUN was saying about Aidan O’Driscoll?

Few choice quotes. I think this should fall within the rules.

The devastating hit was O’Driscoll’s first concussion and his last moment in a competitive scratch match on a football field.
Scans showed up to seven micro-bleeds on his brain from one devastating blow to his ear region.
“Bailey’s shoulder or his head hit me in the temple,” he said.
“It hit me in the soft spot where Phillip Hughes (was killed by a cricket ball).
“So that is scary to think about it as it is. I might have got lucky.
“And it bruised up. I fractured a little bone around my ear. I woke up in the ambulance and I was thinking what happened, why am I here?”

He consulted other specialists for a second and third opinion, and briefly harboured genuine hopes of a football comeback, but his compensation claim will ramp up when O’Driscoll is officially removed from the Bulldogs’ list at season’s end.

If he is successful as expected, O’Driscoll could receive up to about $600,000 as part of a payout for the career-ending injury.

He remains positive about what the future holds, including a potential career in the police force or fire brigade, but watching footy games also provides some of the biggest challenges.
“It is a tough one to swallow because of the mental health side of things, to be honest,” he said.
“That has been a big factor. I have been struggling with that a lot, at times.

So O’Driscoll has begun some athletics training in the hope of shining on the running track.
But he continues to have some trouble with lactic acid which he had never experienced before the hit, and the feeling of wanting to vomit when he trains at high intensity.
O’Driscoll has begun a concussion rehabilitation program after completing some tests on his eye movements and balance.
“There were a couple of things that weren’t where it should be, so I have some things to do as part of some rehab stuff that can help fix some long-term cognitive impairments,” he said.
“I didn’t even realise I was doing it. A twitch. My balance is not where it should be.”

 

[Rocketsurgery]

A big doggies fan from America is coming for his first live match next weekend. They are just asking if there are any places dogs fans go to catch up before the game to have a beer. Does anyone have any recommendations at Marvel or elsewhere in the city? I don't normally go for a drink myself before game so I can't be of much help.

They posted on the Western Bulldogs Reddit forum if anyone wants to reply or I am happy to pass on the recommendations.

 

[Philthy1]

Platform 28.

Mail Exchange.

 

[Rocketsurgery]

Platform 28.

Mail Exchange.

Thanks for that info. I will pass it on

 

[_Cerberus_]

Few choice quotes. I think this should fall within the rules.

I am still gutted for him. And was hopeful that in future years he would be cleared to come back to sport. Thought the AFL were just playing a hard line just to save their own asses. But it seems like it really was much more serious than we all realized, and that he is still suffering some effects from it. Hopefully he will be able to over come these at some point, and lead a good and healthy life. Seems like such a great character too.

Glad the club supported him and offered him a role around the club to keep him involved in some capacity. Not surprised he chose to return home this year, given how closely bonded his family are. Wish him all the best in whatever path he chooses to take in life. He will always be a Bulldog to me, and one of those what if stories.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Anyway, onto my point. What do we supporters get out of it? If Everton had a good year they might get the chance to sign some better players. That might increase my enjoyment levels when I go to the game each week. With AFL and the draft system, it doesn’t always work the same way, but we all hope that year on year the playing list gets better and better. Imagine turning up to the games to see generational talents in the prime of their career pull on your teams colours week in week out.

And that’s where we are. I rewatched last week’s GWS game last night and it really struck me how lucky I am to be following this team right now. The season has been far from perfect. We may even miss out on the 8, but I think we have to occasionally take a step back and appreciate what we do have. I can’t list them all but watching Darcy & Naughton the last two weeks has been an absolute joy. Ed Richards has been the highest rated player in the competition most of the year. Bont is God. Bailey Dale is the most exciting halfback around. West has turned into a top quality small forward. Turning up every week to watch these guys is an absolute pleasure and I, for one, am reminding myself to not take it for granted.

Now bring home the flag or I’m done.

I really echo this viewpoint.

Even though I'm Melbourne born and bred and a multi-generational Dogs supporter, I have spent extensive time overseas and am very much a general sports fan as much as I am a Dogs fan.

Maybe the Dogs and the AFL brings me "home" more than other sports but it's the equitable nature of the league and the fact that clubs are all non-profit institutions of which the majority are member run and operated that results in my love of the Dogs and the AFL in general above any other sport.

In the EPL, in the book Soccernomics they determined that there was a r squared 0.87 between player wages and finishing position, (it goes up to 1), which means what it feels like it means. I do follow my soccer a lot but I can't help but wonder despite all the newspaper articles written, endless online discussion, a lot of how your team does, does not matter unless you just recruit the types of players that correctly demand more money.

When combined with private ownership, you sort of fall into this existential support system where you're cheering the concept of money as much as you're cheering your sport and your team, and in some ways I don't blame the e.g. Newcastle fans who magically became pro-Saudi overnight. I know that I'm oversimplifying it, and obviously one good season above your wages can snowball by future revenue that can help solidify your position (e.g. qualifying for Europe) and there is some vague checks and balances with financial fair play, but the broader point still remains in my view. Cheer for rich owner who wants to spend money, but also be angry when they treat you as a commodity and not a fan.

Compare to the AFL, where as member run clubs, even though it's downstream effect, and slightly removed these days, the football department is answerable to the board, who is answerable to the fans. Even though it's not something I've ever used in my decades as a member, I do have a say in how my club is run, and in some respects I'm a part-owner of the club.

Even though the draft, salary cap, rules of player movement (I'm still angry of the compensation we got for Smith) and fixture are flawed, the league broadly operates in a way that your success on the field reflects your ability of the club - which again are run by the members of the club, even if it is somewhat downstream - to successfully make good football decisions in a level playing field.

When one club defeats another club, it is the end result of the past years of the football club making good decisions to get to that point. This exists with an equal opportunity and with genuine input from the very fans that are the reason the club exists, and not because some American hedge fund owner or some Middle Eastern sovereign wealth fund wants to sports wash the club. In many ways these sports clubs around the world have to go over-the-top with heritage and history and all of that jazz because it's covering up the very nature of how and why the club exists in the modern day and age. We don't have to go over the top because the fundamental reason and nature of our existence has not changed since 1883.

All of this to bring back your point of enjoying the players playing well - I can enjoy these players in a different way that I can enjoy other sports, because they are the output of a fair system, they are representing a club that I as a member "own", have a say in. And when we're eventually a bad club we have no other reason to blame but ourselves, or the people that we employ to represent us in the football department.

 

[manutd/dogs]

I really echo this viewpoint.

Even though I'm Melbourne born and bred and a multi-generational Dogs supporter, I have spent extensive time overseas and am very much a general sports fan as much as I am a Dogs fan.

Maybe the Dogs and the AFL brings me "home" more than other sports but it's the equitable nature of the league and the fact that clubs are all non-profit institutions of which the majority are member run and operated that results in my love of the Dogs and the AFL in general above any other sport.

In the EPL, in the book Soccernomics they determined that there was a r squared 0.87 between player wages and finishing position, (it goes up to 1), which means what it feels like it means. I do follow my soccer a lot but I can't help but wonder despite all the newspaper articles written, endless online discussion, a lot of how your team does, does not matter unless you just recruit the types of players that correctly demand more money.

When combined with private ownership, you sort of fall into this existential support system where you're cheering the concept of money as much as you're cheering your sport and your team, and in some ways I don't blame the e.g. Newcastle fans who magically became pro-Saudi overnight. I know that I'm oversimplifying it, and obviously one good season above your wages can snowball by future revenue that can help solidify your position (e.g. qualifying for Europe) and there is some vague checks and balances with financial fair play, but the broader point still remains in my view. Cheer for rich owner who wants to spend money, but also be angry when they treat you as a commodity and not a fan.

Compare to the AFL, where as member run clubs, even though it's downstream effect, and slightly removed these days, the football department is answerable to the board, who is answerable to the fans. Even though it's not something I've ever used in my decades as a member, I do have a say in how my club is run, and in some respects I'm a part-owner of the club.

Even though the draft, salary cap, rules of player movement (I'm still angry of the compensation we got for Smith) and fixture are flawed, the league broadly operates in a way that your success on the field reflects your ability of the club - which again are run by the members of the club, even if it is somewhat downstream - to successfully make good football decisions in a level playing field.

When one club defeats another club, it is the end result of the past years of the football club making good decisions to get to that point. This exists with an equal opportunity and with genuine input from the very fans that are the reason the club exists, and not because some American hedge fund owner or some Middle Eastern sovereign wealth fund wants to sports wash the club. In many ways these sports clubs around the world have to go over-the-top with heritage and history and all of that jazz because it's covering up the very nature of how and why the club exists in the modern day and age. We don't have to go over the top because the fundamental reason and nature of our existence has not changed since 1883.

All of this to bring back your point of enjoying the players playing well - I can enjoy these players in a different way that I can enjoy other sports, because they are the output of a fair system, they are representing a club that I as a member "own", have a say in. And when we're eventually a bad club we have no other reason to blame but ourselves, or the people that we employ to represent us in the football department.

Brilliant post 3NP. I'll admit I sometimes skim your longer posts, but I'm glad I didn't on this occasion. As a passionate Dogs and Man United fan, I vibe strongly with this. Thank you for so eruditely expressing what I suspect many here feel.

 

[dogwatch]

Thought I'd kick off the irrelevancy of off-season with this piece of trivia.



It's an unwinnable fight but here in no special order are the most common (or most annoying?) mis-spellings of WB names :

Jacques
Weightmen
Trealor, Traelor and various other permutations
Baku
Clearly (auto-correct doing its unwanted thing)

Not a long list really, compared to some years.
Strangely we are pretty good with seemingly difficult names like Freijah and Busslinger.
There's also Ugle-Hagan and Duryea whose surnames get butchered ... but it looks like they're both gone anyway.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Thought I'd kick off the irrelevancy of off-season with this piece of trivia.



It's an unwinnable fight but here in no special order are the most common (or most annoying?) mis-spellings of WB names :

Jacques
Weightmen
Trealor, Traelor and various other permutations
Baku
Clearly (auto-correct doing its unwanted thing)

Not a long list really, compared to some years.
Strangely we are pretty good with seemingly difficult names like Freijah and Busslinger.
There's also Ugle-Hagan and Duryea whose surnames get butchered ... but it looks like they're both gone anyway.

Gardner - Gardiner (Gardy is safest)

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Thought I'd kick off the irrelevancy of off-season with this piece of trivia.



It's an unwinnable fight but here in no special order are the most common (or most annoying?) mis-spellings of WB names :

Jacques
Weightmen
Trealor, Traelor and various other permutations
Baku
Clearly (auto-correct doing its unwanted thing)

Not a long list really, compared to some years.
Strangely we are pretty good with seemingly difficult names like Freijah and Busslinger.
There's also Ugle-Hagan and Duryea whose surnames get butchered ... but it looks like they're both gone anyway.

Jack Macrae/myriad permutations sends his best wishes, DW.

 

[dogwatch]

Jack Macrae/myriad permutations sends his best wishes, DW.

So too does his ex teammate Caleb Daniels

 

[H Dolphin]

So too does his ex teammate Caleb Daniels

It got easier after Smyth left.

 

[dogwatch]

I should have added Luke Beverage to the list.

It seems he’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

 

[Tommycash]

Source: Herald Sun
https://search.app/ZB7bS

Would give us 9 bonus premierships.

 

[Sentinel]

Source: Herald Sun
https://search.app/ZB7bS

Would give us 9 bonus premierships.

No it wouldn't give us any more. This joke of a topic relates to adding pre-1897 VFA Premierships (ie a completely different competition to the VFL/AFL), of which we won none. Ours were won only post 1897.

Effectively, they want to re-write history. Just another brainfart that somehow gets airtime.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

No it wouldn't give us any more. This joke of a topic relates to adding pre-1897 VFA Premierships (ie a completely different competition to the VFL/AFL), of which we won none. Ours were won only post 1897.

Just another brainfart that somehow gets airtime.

It's basically the brainfart of Colin Carter who wants Geelong to look better and refuses to accept that different competitions are distinct competitions.

If you think about it for two seconds it makes no sense. Either you treat it as a VFL/AFL competition operating continuously from 1897, or you don't. Because then you're treating it as some sort of vague 'champion of Victoria' type award - but then when in the 80s or 90s do you stop awarding it? If it's not a champion of Victoria award, why can't Port Adelaide have just as much of a claim to be the champions of whatever you're calling it now in 1914, when they thumped the VFL premiers Carlton after the season and were clearly the best team in the whole of Australia?

 

[Sentinel]

It's basically the brainfart of Colin Carter who wants Geelong to look better and refuses to accept that different competitions are distinct competitions.

If you think about it for two seconds it makes no sense. Either you treat it as a VFL/AFL competition operating continuously from 1897, or you don't. Because then you're treating it as some sort of vague 'champion of Victoria' type award - but then when in the 80s or 90s do you stop awarding it? If it's not a champion of Victoria award, why can't Port Adelaide have just as much of a claim to be the champions of whatever you're calling it now in 1914, when they thumped the VFL premiers Carlton after the season and were clearly the best team in the whole of Australia?

Its actually unhinged. Check out the games played by Geelong in one of their 'premiership' seasons from an entirely different competiton which he wants to count for no reason other than a vanity project: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1878_Geelong_Football_Club_season (4 senior games for year plus a bunch of games against teams that werent even in the VFA, and a school team?!)

They've even gone out and minted premiership cups themselves for these years. It's embarrassingly pathetic, and I'm concerned its gotten anywhere near this far with the AFL who will no doubt make the dumbest decision possible because that would be on brand.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Its actually unhinged. Check out the games played by Geelong in one of their 'premiership' seasons from an entirely different competiton which he wants to count for no reason other than a vanity project: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1878_Geelong_Football_Club_season (4 senior games for year plus a bunch of games against teams that werent even in the VFA, and a school team?!)

They've even gone out and minted premiership cups themselves for these years. It's embarrassingly pathetic, and I'm concerned its gotten anywhere near this far with the AFL who will no doubt make the dumbest decision possible because that would be on brand.

Actually, I'm all for it if we're allowed to steal Essendon's 1924 flag from them (I'm being facetious, but you get my point).

We did beat them and therefore can reasonably be considered the champion team of Victoria for that year, can we not? The underlying logic here, rather than a specific, contained competition playing to an eventual champion (of which 1897 is distinct), is all the same with Carter's logic. So we can equally apply his logic that we were clearly the VFL-equivalent champions of 1924. We did defeat them at the end of the season, after all. One single game across two different competitions has as much validity to determine a champion as that 1878 season you suggest.

 

[Sentinel]

Actually, I'm all for it if we're allowed to steal Essendon's 1924 flag from them (I'm being facetious, but you get my point).

We did beat them and therefore can reasonably be considered the champion team of Victoria for that year, can we not? The underlying logic here, rather than a specific, contained competition playing to an eventual champion (of which 1897 is distinct), is thrown out with Carter's logic. So we can equally apply his logic that we were clearly the VFL-equivalent champions of 1924. We did defeat them at the end of the season, after all. One single game across two different competitions has as much validity to determine a champion as that 1878 season you propose.

We won that game fair and square too (please ignore all allegations of the match being fixed). In contrast, Geelong's first few VFA flags were determined not by a game result but by a subjective newspaper ranking.

 

[X_box_X]

Ken Hinkley was asked on The Front Bar by Mick Molloy, "Which teammate of yours was the Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

24

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

of your team?"

Ken laughed and answered, "Nah, we didn't have one like that."

Mick then asked, "Would you have liked to coached someone like that?"

Without a moment of hesitation, Ken replied, "Nah, I don't think I would."

On a separate note, it's not hard to see why he is so loved and admired by the players he has coached.

 

[Spiritof82]

We won that game fair and square too (please ignore all allegations of the match being fixed). In contrast, Geelong's first few VFA flags were determined not by a game result but by a subjective newspaper ranking.

A bit like Essendopes "first" flag which came from being at the top of the ladder, no GF played, that should be deleted from history

 

[Sentinel]

A bit like Essendopes "first" flag which came from being at the top of the ladder, no GF played, that should be deleted from history

Nope, it was part of the same continuous competition (VFL/AFL) so rightly stands. Finally, that's all that really matters.

 

[lachy]

Nope, it was part of the same continuous competition (VFL/AFL) so rightly stands. Finally, that's all that really matters.

No wonder supporters from interstate call this nothing more than an expanded VFL competition.

For official records all premierships should be broken down into the actual competition they were won in. How clubs and supporters chiose to recognise this is entirely up to them.

We have won 11 senior flags (9 VFA, 1 VFL 1 AFL, 3 night flags for those who missed the final, 1 pre season flag and 3 second tier flags.

 

[Sentinel]

No wonder supporters from interstate call this nothing more than an expanded VFL competition.

For official records all premierships should be broken down into the actual competition they were won in. How clubs and supporters chiose to recognise this is entirely up to them.

We have won 11 senior flags (9 VFA, 1 VFL 1 AFL, 3 night flags for those who missed the final, 1 pre season flag and 3 second tier flags.

The AFL (1991-) and the VFL (1897-1990) are the same continuous competition, just with a rebranding. It is fact that the AFL is an expanded VFL competition, so those supporters are correct. We also rightly consider/claim both Footscray's 1954 and the Western Bulldogs' 2016 flags of equal importance despite having a different name and many elements of the competition being different between the two seasons.

In order of importance we've won 2 flags in the VFL/AFL competition, 12 flags in the VFA/VFL competition (those won between 1897-1924 and 2014-), and a few other short form competitions.

 

[dogwatch]

…

In order of importance we've won 2 flags in the VFL/AFL competition, 12 flags in the VFA/VFL competition (those won between 1897-1924 and 2014-), and a few other short form competitions.

Disagree regarding the modern VFL premierships (post 2000). These are a hybrid of a top level comp (applies to about 20-30% of players) and a reserves or second grade comp (applies to the remaining 70-80% who are the available senior list players not selected for the AFL game on any given weekend).

By contrast the pre-1925 VFA premierships were the highest level of play in that association just as the VFL ones were for the league. So I’d rank them:
1. VFL pre 1990 / AFL 1990-
2. VFA - especially pre 1925 when it was reportedly a strong comp
3. VFL 1990-
4. VFL Reserves.1925-1990

With so little difference between the last two you might as well merge them.