NRL and ARU launch womens comps in 2018

[NoobPie]

Not allowed to talk in this thread sorry I’m an opinion troll

I’ll see myself out

Sorry, FWIW, I speculated you might be a troll because your facts were so far out that it resembled a troll - the kind that make ridiculous assertions just to bait.

You made a completely erroneous assertion about female rugby league playing numbers and then you followed up with a link to the rugby union world cup.

Asserting rugby league female participation is higher than Australian football is en error in fact. It is not a matter of opinion

Saying the women's rugby league will be bigger than AFLW is opinion. You are entitled to that, just as people are to disagree, but marry that with you false assertion about playing numbers and linking to womens rugby union world cup is what gave you the troll smell

 

[jatz14]

I have a thought bubble for comment.

I went to the League unlimited board to see what they thought of the announcement, but can find no trace. There seems to be far more discussion here. Added to that, aside for some recent discussion on the women's world cup and Australian team, there is almost nothing on women's league in general that I can see. Again, compared to BF, where a womens forum started in 2012, 5 years before the AFLW started, and has now reached a respectable 12.5k posts, and in addition, every cub with a womens team has a forum with some dedicated discussion of the womens team.

Even the GWS board has 4 threads and about 600 posts on the team. Most other clubs are pushing 2000+ posts, so all up, maybe 25000 posts about womens footy.

Go to the FFT forum, and its even stranger. 2 months ago they created the first general (that I am aware of) thread devoted to womens football. `The Matildas, young Matildas and womens football related stuff` thread (yes, thats the title). In a period the Matildas smashed one of the stronger Asian nations twice, and an Australian player set a goal scoring record, and won Asian player of the year, it got 44 post, has now dropped of the main page, and is probably dead.

Why is this? Despite FFT regularly deriding AFL as sexist, attitudes on BF seem light years ahead of both FFT and LU.

Could this tie in with why the AFLW has been so successful so quickly?

If FFT, LU and BF posting has any relationship to the wider sports communities, which I know is a stretch, then it may explain somewhat the different reactions to the female versions of the game. If this is true, I struggle to come up with a reason to explain it.

 

[jatz14]

Why don't you add Queensland ?

OK.
There are more womens club AFL teams in Queensland than there are club RL teams.
There are more womens AFL teams in Queensland and NSW combined than there are RL teams in both states combined.
There are more female AFL teams in every state in Australia than RL teams.
There are almost as many females playing Aussie rules in Queensland as there are females playing RL in the whole country, and that is including touch.

Does that cover it?

 

[NoobPie]

I have a thought bubble for comment.

I went to the League unlimited board to see what they thought of the announcement, but can find no trace. There seems to be far more discussion here. Added to that, aside for some recent discussion on the women's world cup and Australian team, there is almost nothing on women's league in general that I can see. Again, compared to BF, where a womens forum started in 2012, 5 years before the AFLW started, and has now reached a respectable 12.5k posts, and in addition, every cub with a womens team has a forum with some dedicated discussion of the womens team.

Even the GWS board has 4 threads and about 600 posts on the team. Most other clubs are pushing 2000+ posts, so all up, maybe 25000 posts about womens footy.

Go to the FFT forum, and its even stranger. 2 months ago they created the first general (that I am aware of) thread devoted to womens football. `The Matildas, young Matildas and womens football related stuff` thread (yes, thats the title). In a period the Matildas smashed one of the stronger Asian nations twice, and an Australian player set a goal scoring record, and won Asian player of the year, it got 44 post, has now dropped of the main page, and is probably dead.

Why is this? Despite FFT regularly deriding AFL as sexist, attitudes on BF seem light years ahead of both FFT and LU.

Could this tie in with why the AFLW has been so successful so quickly?

If FFT, LU and BF posting has any relationship to the wider sports communities, which I know is a stretch, then it may explain somewhat the different reactions to the female versions of the game. If this is true, I struggle to come up with a reason to explain it.

I made a similar observation a while back. You go onto league unlimited and the forums at the top are all "international" related, including the world cup (which I must admit I've watched quite a bit of and enjoyed). There is a forum called "international rugby league" (ie excluding the ESL and world cup) which has a quarter of a million posts. There are busy subforums for north american and french ruby league, the former having 19K posts

Meanwhile, in big footy land, there is one forum tucked away for the international game that can go weeks with no activity, and has 17K posts in total. This despite the fact that, putting aside northern england, it is far from clear to me that there is more league activity than aus football outside of Australia. Certainly north america barely seems to have any league activity at all...just some short competitions probably largely populated with union players

On the other hand, as you have presented, this contrasts massively with the focus on women's footy. I'm sure it is partly due to the culture at big footy being moderately (being the operative word) more civil than the others...but certainly seems that there is disproportionate support for the AFLW compared to the other codes fans supporting their women's games

 

[BringBackTorps]

I have a thought bubble for comment.

I went to the League unlimited board to see what they thought of the announcement, but can find no trace. There seems to be far more discussion here. Added to that, aside for some recent discussion on the women's world cup and Australian team, there is ALMOST NOTHING ON WOMEN'S LEAGUE IN GENERAL that I can see. Again, compared to BF, where a womens forum started in 2012, 5 years before the AFLW started, and has now reached a respectable 12.5k posts, and in addition, every cub with a womens team has a forum with some dedicated discussion of the womens team.

Even the GWS board has 4 threads and about 600 posts on the team. Most other clubs are pushing 2000+ posts, so all up, maybe 25000 posts about womens footy.

Go to the FFT forum, and its even stranger. 2 months ago they created the FIRST [WOW!] general (that I am aware of) thread devoted to womens football. `The Matildas, young Matildas and womens football related stuff` thread (yes, thats the title). In a period the Matildas smashed one of the stronger Asian nations twice, and an Australian player set a goal scoring record, and won Asian player of the year, it got 44 post, has now dropped of the main page, and is probably dead.

Why is this? Despite FFT regularly deriding AFL as sexist, attitudes on BF seem light years ahead of both FFT and LU.

Could this tie in with why the AFLW has been so successful so quickly?

If FFT, LU and BF posting has any relationship to the wider sports communities, which I know is a stretch, then it may explain somewhat the [DIFFERENT] reactions to the female versions of the game. IF THIS IS TRUE [INTERESTING REFLECTION !], I struggle to come up with a reason to explain it.

Prescient observation.
You might have added the Matildas recently defeated world champions USA; & Brazil, also a major female soccer nation.
Have you analysed RU social media re female RU (The Pearls were impressive Rio 2016 female RU Gold Medal winners -but the elite team was only formed from non-RU athletes in 2013)?

As per your last VERY interesting reflection on why AF fans are generally (relative to RL, RU, & soccer fans, & female versions) more enthusiastic about females playing AF, could it be because:-

. AF has such a high % of females (c.45% -highest in the world) attending professional AF comps

. GR AF has such strong direct & indirect connections to netball

. GR AF would struggle to function properly without so many adult female volunteers (mums)

. Many mothers stay for the the whole game, watching their sons & daughters play GR AF (unlike other sports)

. AF fans are, on average, more "evangelistic" about our game prospering & expanding in Aust. -because, for many, it is an important element of Aust. nationalism/pride & self-identity.

. There is a "pro-feminist"/advancement for females component to support for female GR AF, & the AFLW.
Witness the relatively strong support for the AFLW from the "left-of-centre/leftist" Sydney-based ABC 7.30 Report/Aust. Story -but, generally, these programs give no AFL support; ditto "left-of-centre/leftist" Sydney-based S(occer) Broadcasting Service, on all its programs.

Witness also the increasingly well attended Susan Alberti Charity Breakfasts re Women's Football -I've been the rare male. Nearly all the women I have spoken to there have been professionally employed -I assume they have more of a feminist outlook/"glass ceiling" awareness.


There has been no detailed, empirical study on why the AFLW crowds & ratings have been so very high (when not played concurrently with AFL games/in AFL season).

A Gold Coast Masters student (& GC Bond Uni. FC AF female player) is doing a Masters Degree & Survey on why so many women -in Qld.!-want to play AF. Early conclusions: the complex skill set -having to use hands AND feet, left & right; physicality; & more friendly environment with such large teams nos./finding a kindred spirit.
(These issues have been slightly explored in the Women's Football Thread "Why Do Women Want To Play The Rough/Risky Game Of AF? How Can We Get More?").

EDIT:
ACHTUNG! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!
One must be CAREFUL one does not upset RL women -or one could be in a spot of bother.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/quest...s/news-story/8a694d2e568d5f2a3f95d7d98a3124de

 

[thegreig]

you know theres 20 countries participating in womens rugby league World Cup right now?

Have you watched any of the games? I tuned into Aus v Canada and the final result was 88-0 with what looked like less than 100 people in the crowd (most of which were school children in uniform, so my guess would be some sort of after school program)
There is no way this is going to get the same hype or fan base as AFLW

 

[Colonial]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=FoxSportsAus

Silly having it at the same time as the finals.

Should be in clean air to give it the best shot.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Aussie in exile]

Europe wont even notice.

The last time i checked England and France were in Europe.

 

[thegreig]

The last time i checked England and France were in Europe.

Doesn't mean they'll notice

 

[Aussie in exile]

Doesn't mean they'll notice

That's right, but its still there.

 

[thegreig]

That's right, but its still there.

No one was saying they weren't, just that they wouldn't notice...
Anyway good luck to anyone playing/watching wherever you are

 

[SilvaComet]

QLD AFLW won't be affected too much, very strong growth here over the last 10 years.

 

[NoobPie]

QLD AFLW won't be affected too much, very strong growth here over the last 10 years.

I would have thought it could certainly constrain future growth though. Do players like Kate McCarthy who grew up in League families keep coming through or are they more likely to pursue League now that its available?

 

[thegreig]

I would have thought it could certainly constrain future growth though. Do players like Kate McCarthy who grew up in League families keep coming through or are they more likely to pursue League now that its available?

Is it as available as though? From what I understand there are far more opportunities for girls to play Aussie Rules than there is League
(I'm no expert on the subject)

 

[jatz14]

I would have thought it could certainly constrain future growth though. Do players like Kate McCarthy who grew up in League families keep coming through or are they more likely to pursue League now that its available?

This is the big question
McCarthy never played league, she played touch, which is more suited to someone fast but small. I think there is amlost no chance she switches to league now.

Will it stop future McCarthy's playing footy? Not sure.

Zarieka for GWS does play RL. Could she play both, considering they are at opposite ends of the season?

Another issue, will it be televised? Its on during the finals of the mens comps, so is anyone going to know or care? Or will the NRL count people turning up early for an NRL final as Womens league supporters?

 

[TWLS]

I would have thought it could certainly constrain future growth though. Do players like Kate McCarthy who grew up in League families keep coming through or are they more likely to pursue League now that its available?

Its a good thing anyhow we have a 2/3 year break on the NRL Womens, however the NRL with their new TV deal will pour the funds in NSW and QLD.
What is interesting is they are both full contact sports and the Girls/Women will have to choose in a well entrenched Rugby League landscape including the media.
To sort of quote Rumsfeld - There are many unknowns.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

It's basically a rush job in response to the AFLW, WBBL and the popularity of the Matlidas, so you have to wonder about the logistics of the whole competition.

The AFLW still had logistical problems in its first season yet they had twice the time to prepare.

You also have to wonder about the marketing efforts etc. - the AFLWs marketint/branding with its colour scheme and its ability to engage with non-traditional media sources and whether that'll be the same for the NRL competition.

 

[The_Wookie]

It's basically a rush job in response to the AFLW, WBBL and the popularity of the Matlidas, so you have to wonder about the logistics of the whole competition.

The AFLW still had logistical problems in its first season yet they had twice the time to prepare.

You also have to wonder about the marketing efforts etc. - the AFLWs marketint/branding with its colour scheme and its ability to engage with non-traditional media sources and whether that'll be the same for the NRL competition.

They expect the first season to go as double headers with the NRL finals series. While the AFL finals are on as well. No clear air at all.

 

[BringBackTorps]

It's basically a rush job in response to the AFLW, WBBL and the popularity of the Matlidas, so you have to wonder about the LOGISTICS of the whole competition.

The AFLW still had logistical problems in its first season yet they had twice the time to prepare.

You also have to wonder about the marketing efforts etc. - the AFLWs marketint/branding with its colour scheme and its ability to engage with non-traditional media sources and whether that'll be the same for the NRL competition.

The NRL in the RLWC actually did some of their logistics better than the AFLW.

The NRL:-
. at some RLWC games with few fans, Ch.7 had cameras deliberately positioned in the less crowded areas. They panned across to where most of the spectators were, in the grand stand area - to create a more "exciting" optic/buzz for TV viewers.
. AFAIK, did not play women's games starting before 3pm -thus attempting to avoid the heat of the sun directly overhead.
. played on properly tiered grounds, so spectators had a better view (cf. with flat dumps like Coll. FC's Oly.Park).

 

[threenewpadlocks]

They expect the first season to go as double headers with the NRL finals series. While the AFL finals are on as well. No clear air at all.

Perhaps it's their only opportunity to have a league going over the next year or two, and it's better than not having any competition at all. The lesser of two evils.

The NRL's mistakes won't be made with how they move forward now though, and whether the competition is a net positive over what other theoretical decision they could have made for women's RL heading forward, but their failure to put steps in place to build the talent pool and the interest in the league over the past decade. Just from little things like more effectively promoting the Jillaroos and SOO games to funding and investing in junior development and coaching, that's things that the AFL did in place (and were such a resounding success that they could bring forward the league from the original planned date of 2020 to 2017) over the last decade.

For example, in 2004 after VCAT forced youth girls competitions to be formed (ie starting from 0) invested in national youth girls' championships that began in 2010, invested in TAC academies at Dandenong and Calder (that were the precurser to the current TAC Girls competiiton), operated the national state championships, and probably most importantly increased the visibility of women's footy beginning with the Melbourne/Western Bulldogs clash in 2013, of which a game in 2015 was nationally televised (but even the earlier games were well publicised) - all of which allowed the 2017 AFLW to be a success. The NRL have made the mistake of only doing a fraction of those things over the last decade yet are playing catch-up for a national competition.

 

[jatz14]

Perhaps it's their only opportunity to have a league going over the next year or two, and it's better than not having any competition at all. The lesser of two evils.

The NRL's mistakes won't be made with how they move forward now though, and whether the competition is a net positive over what other theoretical decision they could have made for women's RL heading forward, but their failure to put steps in place to build the talent pool and the interest in the league over the past decade. Just from little things like more effectively promoting the Jillaroos and SOO games to funding and investing in junior development and coaching, that's things that the AFL did in place (and were such a resounding success that they could bring forward the league from the original planned date of 2020 to 2017) over the last decade.

For example, in 2004 after VCAT forced youth girls competitions to be formed (ie starting from 0) invested in national youth girls' championships that began in 2010, invested in TAC academies at Dandenong and Calder (that were the precurser to the current TAC Girls competiiton), operated the national state championships, and probably most importantly increased the visibility of women's footy beginning with the Melbourne/Western Bulldogs clash in 2013, of which a game in 2015 was nationally televised (but even the earlier games were well publicised) - all of which allowed the 2017 AFLW to be a success. The NRL have made the mistake of only doing a fraction of those things over the last decade yet are playing catch-up for a national competition.

I think its a case of realising the depths of their error. My reading is, it would take many years, even with a big push by the NRL to get grass roots womens RL to the point womens footy was in 2016. They have realised they cannot wait that long, the head start they are giving other sports may become insurmountable, even in Qld.

They are launching a national comp, but there are 4 teams playing tackle RL in WA. There are more than 4 leagues playing AFL in NSW. The difference is huge, and getting bigger fast.

 

[NoobPie]

Perhaps it's their only opportunity to have a league going over the next year or two, and it's better than not having any competition at all. The lesser of two evils.

The NRL's mistakes won't be made with how they move forward now though, and whether the competition is a net positive over what other theoretical decision they could have made for women's RL heading forward, but their failure to put steps in place to build the talent pool and the interest in the league over the past decade. Just from little things like more effectively promoting the Jillaroos and SOO games to funding and investing in junior development and coaching, that's things that the AFL did in place (and were such a resounding success that they could bring forward the league from the original planned date of 2020 to 2017) over the last decade.

For example, in 2004 after VCAT forced youth girls competitions to be formed (ie starting from 0) invested in national youth girls' championships that began in 2010, invested in TAC academies at Dandenong and Calder (that were the precurser to the current TAC Girls competiiton), operated the national state championships, and probably most importantly increased the visibility of women's footy beginning with the Melbourne/Western Bulldogs clash in 2013, of which a game in 2015 was nationally televised (but even the earlier games were well publicised) - all of which allowed the 2017 AFLW to be a success. The NRL have made the mistake of only doing a fraction of those things over the last decade yet are playing catch-up for a national competition.

In hindsight they should really have invested in a 3 game SOO series years ago. They could have eventually built down from that

This is what I don't get about their strategy. Fair enough, they just had a world cup in australia but beyond that it is hard to see the Jillaroos being a massive draw card. As it was, the world cup final got under 200K viewers. New Zealand can match them now when they draw from perhaps a few dozen teams across the country (and that is how thin on the ground women's rugby league is atm)....but as it improves the Jillaroos are just going to be steam rolling countries with no where near the interest and development.

It seems obvious to build it around the far more popular (for the mens game) SOO where you would also have a balanced rivalry. Have the centralised contracts but through the NSWRL and QRL. The State of Origin is RL's one unambiguous point of difference. Everything else is falling further and further behind. The world cup was great but international rugby league is never going to have 1/10th of the gravitas of SOO.

 

[BringBackTorps]

QLD AFLW won't be affected too much, VERY STRONG[WHY?] growth here over the last 10 years.

Qld., a RL heartland, is claiming similar GR AF female regd. nos to Vic. for c.5 years! I have seen no detailed analysis to explain this phenomenon.

Are you very involved in female GR AF in Qld., & for how long?
Care to provide your views on WHY so many females in Qld. want to play GR AF?

How realistic is it to expect the very large no. of females playing non-contact Touch/Tag etc. to switch to a very physical, full contact sport like GR RL? How strongly is female GR contact RL being pushed since the NRL took control of Tag (& its database) in 2014?

 

[BringBackTorps]

D.Grant states the NRL is "three to four years away" from having an NRL women's comp. capable of challenging the AFLW.

www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/nrl-three-to-four-years-away-from-AFLWstyle-league-grant-20171206-h001uj.html

 

[jatz14]

D.Grant states the NRL is "three to four years away" from having an NRL women's comp. capable of challenging the AFLW.

www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/nrl-three-to-four-years-away-from-AFLWstyle-league-grant-20171206-h001uj.html

Think he is very optimistic. At best, 3 or 4 years away from where AFLW was year 1, but AFLW will be a 14 team, truly national comp by then. It will still be a mile behind.

Womens footy 3 to 4 years pre AFLW was stronger than women's RL is now.

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