Mega Thread Official thread for Footscray Vs Western Bulldogs name discussion

[lachy]

The future of the bulldogs is not the people who remember when we were Footscray playing at The Western Oval. The market the dogs need to hit have never known a team called Footsc

Going backwards to placate those with grey hair that want to reminisce would be ridiculous.

Add to that there is absolute zero draw or appeal in the suburb of Footscray that would attract new fans

Whilst I agree the name will never revert back what relevance in a negative sense is there in actually calling the club by what is still its actual name?

Every other Melbourne based club have not changed their name to grow and quite a few are not even based in the suburb where the club started, incidentally we still are.

How Footscray the suburb is perceived is irrelevant in the marketing of the Footscray football club. Collingwood the suburb has never had a great reputation yet Collingwood the football club have massive support in the outer Northern suburbs and throughout Australia and that has nothing to do with suburb and everything to do with the football club.

The argument that people born before 1997 have never known anything other than Western as some panacea argument for continuing with the Western experiment is also a nonsense, as over that time it has not attracted a larger share of this support base, we have not grown proportionately in comparison to any other club over that time so it cannot be a sticking point in changing the name back as it is not a name young people have rallied around and in fact a large portion would probably prefer to respect the history of our club.

Again I also do not think anywhere people are saying or arguing the future of the club is calling the club by its proper and legal name AND playing at the Western oval so I am unsure how that is even an argument in maintaining the bland 90's marketing spin trading name.

MD you recognise the spin of the Ballarat adventure and call it out for what it is, and I agree playing games there will not grow our base, however at least that adventure adds a couple of million to our coffers. Western has actually done nothing, never will and also never will grow our support around Australia or in the West of Melbourne more than actually calling our club by its actual and still legal name. We have 23 years to prove this now

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[Mattdougie]

Whilst I agree the name will never revert back what relevance in a negative sense is there in actually calling the club by what is still its actual name?

Every other Melbourne based club have not changed their name to grow and quite a few are not even based in the suburb where the club started, incidentally we still are.

How Footscray the suburb is perceived is irrelevant in the marketing of the Footscray football club. Collingwood the suburb has never had a great reputation yet Collingwood the football club have massive support in the outer Northern suburbs and throughout Australia and that has nothing to do with suburb and everything to do with the football club.

The argument that people born before 1997 have never known anything other than Western as some panacea argument for continuing with the Western experiment is also a nonsense, as over that time it has not attracted a larger share of this support base, we have not grown proportionately in comparison to any other club over that time so it cannot be a sticking point in changing the name back as it is not a name young people have rallied around and in fact a large portion would probably prefer to respect the history of our club.

Again I also do not think anywhere people are saying or arguing the future of the club is calling the club by its proper and legal name AND playing at the Western oval so I am unsure how that is even an argument in maintaining the bland 90's marketing spin trading name.

MD you recognise the spin of the Ballarat adventure and call it out for what it is, and I agree playing games there will not grow our base, however at least that adventure adds a couple of million to our coffers. Western has actually done nothing, never will and also never will grow our support around Australia or in the West of Melbourne more than actually calling our club by its actual and still legal name. We have 23 years to prove this now

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While I agree with most of that I just can’t see how changing the name adds anything at all other than some nostalgia.

I guess I’m just not as attached to the Footscray name as many others my age or older and would see it as a backward step. I didn’t support the change when it was made but time has passed.

BUT if changing the name back to Footscray means we stop playing in Ballarat and other holes then I’m all for it

 

[The Buck]

Every other Melbourne based club have not changed their name to grow and quite a few are not even based in the suburb where the club started, incidentally we still are.

Wasn't North Melbourne just the Kangaroos for a few years?

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

I think the club is doing the right thing by embracing and wanting to involve the entire western region, but still paying homage to the past history. I’d rather the club want to focus on having a whole region behind them rather than be fixated on a small section of the city.

I understand the reason people want the name to be Footscray, I probably would to if we won 10-15 flags as that...but we didn’t. That’s why I’d rather want to try and gain the support of tens of thousands of people who live in the west rather than a few thousand in the suburban region

but that’s the thing. it’s not focusing on one small part of the city. it’s bigger than that. footscray is just a better name.
Collingwood is not just about that small part of the city of Melbourne. Neither is St Kilda. The actual suburbs are incidental to the team name and it’s not important at all. What is important is their name. The actual letters that form their name. It’s their unique identity and I think people need to stop looking at the suburb/place and just look at the name as a holistic overarching brand.
I hate Western as it smacks of a cheap marketing gimmick with absolutely no soul. Footscray is a brand with soul and you ask anyone from the other clubs for their opinion and the answer is unanimous “The Bulldogs should go back to their rightful name Footscray”. That’s what irks me the most, the push back against changing it back is coming from some of our own supporters.

 

[lachy]

Wasn't North Melbourne just the Kangaroos for a few years?

Yep changed it back quickly when the worked out the name North Melbourne offered no restrictions in growing their brand throughout Melbourne and Australia. Was a similar time to our name change. St Kilda also toyed with the Southern Saints in the Marketing hype 90's.

Both have grown more than us or at least as much of us not changing

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[BallaratBulldog]

I think it’s fantastic that the Members at the time voted the VFL team as Footscray over WB reserves at lest. As a result it gives proper acknowledgment to that time. Same with the jumper over the Robo/clip art dog.

 

[lachy]

I think it’s fantastic that the Members at the time voted the VFL team as Footscray over WB reserves at lest. As a result it gives proper acknowledgment to that time. Same with the jumper over the Robo/clip art dog.

Realistically a members vote year end is the only way to put this to bed given we are actually a member based club.

Now is not the time, all resources need to be allocated to achieving on field and off field results during these difficult times.

I actually have no issue with any member who actually prefers Western and if the majority voted that way fair enough.

My issue was it was marketing spin never voted on by the members and never legally changed as in order to this members would have to vote, hence why it is only a trading name.

Many have brought into the spin and equate success we had and growth in membership to this name change.

Success we had was based on many years hard work by many but we also were Technically broke again twice before success on field set us up off field.

Also, yes we have more members than 1997 but not more growth than any of the other 8 Melbourne clubs that did not change their name

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[dogwatch]

Realistically a members vote year end is the only way to put this to bed given we are actually a member based club.

Now is not the time, all resources need to be allocated to achieving on field and off field results during these difficult times.

I actually have no issue with any member who actually prefers Western and if the majority voted that way fair enough.

My issue was it was marketing spin never voted on by the members and never legally changed as in order to this members would have to vote, hence why it is only a trading name.

Many have brought into the spin and equate success we had and growth in membership to this name change.

Success we had was based on many years hard work by many but we also were Technically broke again twice before success on field set us up off field.

Also, yes we have more members than 1997 but not more growth than any of the other 8 Melbourne clubs that did not change their name

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I respect your passion for the Footscray name. Back in the 90s I didn't want it to change either.

However not thinking it's as big an issue now as you do doesn't mean we have bought into the spin. If you're not referring to people like me and MD, who is it that has "bought into the spin"?

I don't love the name - it still jars with me - and wouldn't have a big problem with us changing it back. I just think we are likely to spin our wheels on an issue like this when our energies and resources could be better applied elsewhere.

I'd be fine if it can be done quickly, cleanly and with minimal cost and repercussions. I just don't think that's how it would play out.

"If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well it were done quickly". - Macbeth

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Keep VFL as Footscray, fine, but the Western Bulldogs are now the Western Bulldogs. In today's day and age of inclusiveness, it could feel a little jarring and offputting to people in the west who might want to get into AFL to not see a team that represents them, yes, it's a name but the power behind the name can mean alot.

We've also won our most recent flag under the name.

I love Footscray, it's the name I grew up with, but now we're the Western Bulldogs, and I'm fine with that as well.

 

[lachy]

I respect your passion for the Footscray name. Back in the 90s I didn't want it to change either.

However not thinking it's as big an issue now as you do doesn't mean we have bought into the spin. If you're not referring to people like me and MD, who is it that has "bought into the spin"?

I don't love the name - it still jars with me - and wouldn't have a big problem with us changing it back. I just think we are likely to spin our wheels on an issue like this when our energies and resources could be better applied elsewhere.

I'd be fine if it can be done quickly, cleanly and with minimal cost and repercussions. I just don't think that's how it would play out.

"If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere well it were done quickly". - Macbeth

As stated I agree now is not the time if it will be done it has to be off season.

My bigger issue is the false justification of the name change nothing more. If it is to be, it is to be

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[Mantis Toboggan]

That's the over arching spiel but if you want to get into basics...
The word Footscray rolls off the tongue so well.
It's a nice compact word.
It just looks better.
It has the word 'Foot' in it and we are playing Football.
It has the word 'Scray' in it and who doesn't love the word SCRAY - Go the Scray! - F*&^king love it.
It's simply the most unique name on the sporting landscape and will not get confused with the Western Jets, The West Coke Eagles, Greater Western Sydney etc...

My wife grew up in Ipswich, QLD and remembers being really intrigued by the name ‘Footscray’. Little did she know that 30 years later she’d be living there with some English bloke and we’d both be mad Dogs fans.
It is a great place-name and I think in 2021 we can say it’s a great suburb. We’d go back to the Footscray name if it were up to me.

 

[D Mitchell]

I remember in I think 96 getting a questionnaire where we had to rank what was most important to us as members.
The options were something like:
The name Footscray
The club location
The mascot Bulldogs
The jumper colours
The players at the time
Maybe even the theme song?

I just remember the impending fear that we were going to be merged.

Your memory's good. Back before scanners and jpg, I reproduced it from the copy questionnaire I'd kept, I may still have it but not here.

Here it is.

FFC Membership No:

1. Based on what you know of the direction of the AFL, is a merger your preferred option for the Footscray Football Club ?

2. If the Club was to merge, which other club would you prefer us to join with ?

1st preference…………….

2nd preference……………

3rd preference……………

3. When considering a merger, which of the following are most important to you ? That is, which would you give priority to preserve ?

(Rank from 1[most important] to 8[least important]

Footscray Name [ ]

Bulldog name/logo [ ]

Colours [ ]

Jumper Design [ ]

Whitten Oval Base [ ]

Player List [ ]

Administration [ ]

Representation [ ]

Financial Incentive [ ]


4. In what circumstances or conditions would you support a merger ?

 

[dogwatch]

My wife grew up in Ipswich, QLD and remembers being really intrigued by the name ‘Footscray’. Little did she know that 30 years later she’d be living there with some English bloke and we’d both be mad Dogs fans.
It is a great place-name and I think in 2021 we can say it’s a great suburb. We’d go back to the Footscray name if it were up to me.

Speaking of English ... I presume most people know where the name Footscray came from. If not, here's a short history of Foots Cray just outside London. It was originally bigger than neighbouring Sidcup. Just as well we weren't called Sidcup because it might well have been us and not South Melbourne packed off to the harbour city in 1982!

Enjoy ...

Foots Cray - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Cute that it's right next to Maidstone in the UK.

Foots Cray · Sidcup, UK

Sidcup, UK

www.google.com

 

[GetDimmaBack]

WHatever your thoughts are on reverting back to being called Footscray, the negative connotations around the suburb that Smorgo talked about back in 1997 appear to be passe (trendy word, hey?)...

Footscray ranked among top 50 coolest suburbs in the world (domain.com.au)

 

[Northernsoul74]

Speaking of English ... I presume most people know where the name Footscray came from. If not, here's a short history of Foots Cray just outside London. It was originally bigger than neighbouring Sidcup. Just as well we weren't called Sidcup because it might well have been us and not South Melbourne packed off to the harbour city in 1982!

Enjoy ...

Foots Cray - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Cute that it's right next to Maidstone in the UK.

Foots Cray · Sidcup, UK

Sidcup, UK

www.google.com

I grew up in Maidstone. The UK one.

 

[Optimistic Dog]

I sort accepted the Western Bulldogs and saw the flag under that moniker. However the more I think about it what has the Western Bulldogs achieved getting additional supporters because it suggests we represent a bigger region. Probably very little if any so why not be true to our traditions and grass roots where the club was saved in 1989 under name of Footscray.

 

[dergert]

Change it

 

[Endless]

I’m an old bastard who grew up with the Footscray name which fell alphabetically behind Fitzroy
My only problem with WB is the fact that we are always called last alphabetically......small potatoes!
I have always referred to us as the Bulldogs and always will.
The colours are what really count!

 

[Freshwater]

I had a strong opinion on the return to the hoops. I wrote to Smorgo, I had letters published in the newspapers and wore the hoops heritage guernsey to games and pushed its legitimacy all the time. I was so happy when we finally won our flag that we won it in a beautiful jumper and the same jumper we won the 1954 premiership in. I think the best jumper in the league.
I am on the fence with the name change because I can see the pro’s and con’s mentioned throughout this thread.
We are lucky we still have such a Footscray/Western suburbs connection, we still have the Western Oval and improvements coming, Footscray reserves, two Women’s teams, Ballarat games instead of Cairns. I’ve been to many Women’s and VFL games in the last few years at the Whitten oval and the atmosphere is great but viewing is a bit poor, I can’t wait until the renovations happen.
What ever name helps the club I’m happy with.

 

[immortalmike]

WHatever your thoughts are on reverting back to being called Footscray, the negative connotations around the suburb that Smorgo talked about back in 1997 appear to be passe (trendy word, hey?)...

Footscray ranked among top 50 coolest suburbs in the world (domain.com.au)

Always thought that Smorgon's reasoning was elitist, classist, corporate claptrap anyway.
The condescension was disgusting and offensive.

Footscray is our name. Many don't like that it is but it is plain and simple. Western is and always has been a marketing gimmick.

 

[Guido]

If we did switch our name back to Footscray, to appease those who disagreed with the change, would we switch our VFL team name to Western and add the letters WBFC to our jumpers?

 

[D Mitchell]

...and add the letters WBFC to our jumpers?

There is no entity that matches those initials, perhaps FFCt/aWB

 

[DognBones]

It would be very interesting to garner the opinions of the players who have played for us in the past and in the present regarding the club's name. Obviously, almost none of them have any historical connection to the area except perhaps for the father-sons. However, they are the direct representatives of the brand and their opinions should be considered.

 

[Bulldogsroar]

Your memory's good. Back before scanners and jpg, I reproduced it from the copy questionnaire I'd kept, I may still have it but not here.

Here it is.

FFC Membership No:

1. Based on what you know of the direction of the AFL, is a merger your preferred option for the Footscray Football Club ?

2. If the Club was to merge, which other club would you prefer us to join with ?

1st preference…………….

2nd preference……………

3rd preference……………

3. When considering a merger, which of the following are most important to you ? That is, which would you give priority to preserve ?

(Rank from 1[most important] to 8[least important]

Footscray Name [ ]

Bulldog name/logo [ ]

Colours [ ]

Jumper Design [ ]

Whitten Oval Base [ ]

Player List [ ]

Administration [ ]

Representation [ ]

Financial Incentive [ ]


4. In what circumstances or conditions would you support a merger ?

 

[immortalmike]

If we did switch our name back to Footscray, to appease those who disagreed with the change, would we switch our VFL team name to Western and add the letters WBFC to our jumpers?

Why in Bont's name would we do that?
Possibly the weirdest suggestion since Kent Brockman suggested his viewers "our viewers to crack each other’s heads open and feast on the goo inside".