Environment Oklahoma Tornadoes

[Aussie Assault]

Anyone following these at the moment? Crazy how big the one that hit Moore was - 1 mile wide.

7 children confirmed dead in an elementary school, presumably drowned from KFOR reports, with another 20-30 expected.

And these storms look set to continue over the next few days..

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/u...-oklahoma-kansas/story-fndir2ev-1226647275058

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/20/us/severe-weather/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

[Bluelegs]

Full on.

Timelapse of the tornado's movement: http://www.wmctv.com/category/240217/video-landing-page?clipId=8899079&autostart=true

 

[Smoooothy]

saying 37 dead now

weather is a crazy bitch!

 

[Aussie Assault]

Some of the reporters are saying that it is likely to be the largest tornado to ever be recorded. Far fetched and all, but some of the footage makes it look like a nuke was dropped.

in 1999, Moore was hit with what was at the time, and possibly only surpassed by today, with the strongest tornado in recorded history. 36 were killed that day. In the past 15 years it has been hit with 5 tornadoes. Crazy place to live.

 

[BotsMaster]

I watched the movie Twister last night.

 

[Copernicus]

This event looks on a par with what happened in Joplin, Missouri two years ago. 150 odd people died in that one.

Not much you can do short of finding an underground bunker when a twister of that size rolls through. The worst thing was seeing the images of cars tossed around - apparently the storm bore right over a traffic jam on an interstate in the area (Moore is a suburb of Oklahoma City, so heavily populated). Who knows how many people died there if that was truly the case.

 

[Smoooothy]

http://google.org/crisismap/2013-oklahoma-tornado

 

[DREAM TEAM BUFF]

Thoughts are with those affected

 

[Milang_Panthers]

Thoughts go out to those affected by this tragedy.
Why do people live in these areas? Are they really cheap in terms of buying a house?

 

[Amazing Racer]

I wonder too about people who live in these areas - every year there are twisters and it becomes the norm

The Midwest isn't rich so there probably is some truth in the price of homes are cheaper than other parts of the US. But I also think families tend to stay and each generation stays in the area

 

[Caesar]

Tornado Alley is a huge area with a big population and a lot of the best farmland in the US. There are thousands of tornadoes every year and very few of them pose this kind of risk.

 

[The Speaker]

Tornado Alley is a huge area with a big population and a lot of the best farmland in the US. There are thousands of tornadoes every year and very few of them pose this kind of risk.

But every year we see that such and such a town has been flattened.

From what little I know about their housing, they seem to build houses made out of wood in this area all the time.

If they made them out of something else, or even if they went all Coober Pedy and went underground, surely they'd be better off?

 

[Copernicus]

But every year we see that such and such a town has been flattened.

From what little I know about their housing, they seem to build houses made out of wood in this area all the time.

If they made them out of something else, or even if they went all Coober Pedy and went underground, surely they'd be better off?

Underground is really the only way to ride out a twister of this size. You can see houses that have been completely swiped off the foundation, and many of them were brick. Bear in mind that an EF5 that's half a mile or a mile wide is absolutely anomalous. The city of Moore seems to be in a real sweet spot, though. The strongest winds ever recorded in a tornado occurred when another one barreled through Moore in 1999. This one seems to have been wider, though, and stayed on the ground longer.

 

[Collingwood 4 eternity]

 

[Mooster7]

But every year we see that such and such a town has been flattened.

From what little I know about their housing, they seem to build houses made out of wood in this area all the time.

If they made them out of something else, or even if they went all Coober Pedy and went underground, surely they'd be better off?

I was born and raised in Missouri. Still live there (although I'm typing from Kansas at the moment). As Ceasar stated, it's Tornado Alley. It's also some of the best farmland in the world, not just the US. The alley goes from Texas up through Oklahoma and Kansas and hangs a right for Missouri. Nebraska, Iowa, Arkansas and Illinois also catch hell and Indiana has seen a twister or two in its time.

The housing isn't just wood. It's whatever. The house I grew up in was brick and had a basement. Most people who build houses in the alley build them with basements. But if an F5 hits, it doesn't matter what your house is made of, it's gone and the basement may or may not do you much good.

Is it stupid to live here? No. Although we expect tornadoes from March through October, these big daddies are rare and most tornadoes strike less populated or non-populated areas. But where to live? On the gulf where there are hurricanes? Out west with the earthquakes? Northwest where there is a big ass volcano? No matter where you live, there's always some shit. You just deal with it. The odds of being killed by a tornado are actually quite scant when you figure in death per capita odds. Driving to work is still the most dangerous thing most people do every day.

Peace,

 

[rayven]

Underground is really the only way to ride out a twister of this size. .

Really? as I understand it there was a few million residents in this area for thousands of thousands of years who lived in houses made up of dead tree branches and buffalo hides....

 

[Copernicus]

Really? as I understand it there was a few million residents in this area for thousands of thousands of years who lived in houses made up of dead tree branches and buffalo hides....

I would be very surprised if there were ever more than a few hundred thousand natives across the plains area. It's really not that productive unless you farm, which they didn't.

Plus I imagine they had figured out a good way of seeing if a twister was coming - keep an eye on the horizon! Those folks were outdoors all day and knew exactly what was coming.

For people stuck in houses, if there's a tornado coming and you don't have a clear way out and plenty of warning, which for many was not the case here, then you had better have a sturdy basement.

 

[rayven]

I would be very surprised if there were ever more than a few hundred thousand natives across the plains area. It's really not that productive unless you farm, which they didn't.

Why don't you research it? They weren't into productivity,they were into sustainability.That land could sustain millions.

Plus I imagine they had figured out a good way of seeing if a twister was coming - keep an eye on the horizon! Those folks were outdoors all day and knew exactly what was coming.

I guess they figured radar, tv, radio, internet,air raid sirens and iphone apps couldn't do what the naked eye does? I guess thats why they didn't destroy their environment for these thing?

 

[Mooster7]

Really? as I understand it there was a few million residents in this area for thousands of thousands of years who lived in houses made up of dead tree branches and buffalo hides....

Don't know about millions. There is no reliable data or evidence for Pre-Columbian Native populations in North America. They lived in small nomadic tribes of hunter gatherers. They weren't farmers at all. They couldn't be in most areas of the central plains. Thousands of years of uncultivated grasslands had developed into deep sod. It wasn't until the European settlers brought metal plows out west to break the ground that any meaningful agriculture developed. And it would take that sort of farming to support millions. Popping the occasional deer or buffalo, and gathering berries, wild corns and some fish while on the move makes for a much smaller population. Again, no one really knows. The Incas, Aztecs and Mayans down south a ways certainly had millions, but I seriously doubt "Tornado Alley" ever did.

You could be sure some Indians were killed by tornadoes here and there, but it probably didn't happen all that often with smaller scattered, nomadic populations as opposed to more dense urban and suburban sprawl. Regardless, the weakest of tornadoes would obliterate a camp of teepee dwelling folk. An F5 would leave absolutely no trace. It would even remove the finger prints.

 

[Copernicus]

Why don't you research it? They weren't into productivity,they were into sustainability.That land could sustain millions.

Mooster's on the ball. The Plains Indians didn't rely on agriculture - they were generally hunter gatherers, small nomadic tribes that occupied large areas, especially once the horse arrived in North America. There were agricultural communities in the East and Southeast, like the Creek who were native to my area, but the southeast has much more reliable rainfall and supported denser populations. And being always ready to move, they were well aware of the prevailing conditions and could move at any time if weather threatened. Plus, being far more sparsely settled, there simply would not have been that many people in the path of a tornado.

I guess they figured radar, tv, radio, internet,air raid sirens and iphone apps couldn't do what the naked eye does? I guess thats why they didn't destroy their environment for these thing?

Pretty much. If you are in a house, you're not really all that aware of what's going around you, especially if you are in a densely populated area that doesn't allow a clear view of the surroundings. Now these things obviously help and there are few fewer deaths in this day and age than they were up until the 70s or 80s when meteorology became better able to predict storms like this, but if you are in a house you can't just pick up your stuff and leave. You can drive, but you are constrained to roads, and this is usually far more dangerous than finding a place to shelter, as you are at the mercy of the road system unless you're in a rural area with no traffic and plenty of space to maneuver. So staying home is generally considered safest, and except for the most severe tornadoes, people survive by moving to an interior space or a cellar.

Basically, the more settled a society is, the more they are at risk from disasters like this, even if you know it's coming.

 

[Aussie Assault]

I think the issue with some areas, especially down texas way, is the the water table is so close to the surface that it makes building basements or shelters underground very difficult. I'm not sure what Oklahoma is like, but sometimes it isn't always an option to go lower.

Has yesterday's Moore tornado been rated yet?