Open Mike

[Hodgepodge]

That story about giving chest compression to his son in the back of an ambulance was extremely vivid

 

[Partridge]

What I will say is, that having seen a lot of Ablett Snr., Dunstall and Lockett play, I have always said Lockett and Ablett were better. However something john Kennedy Jr., said at the hawthorn hall of fame event. I forget the words now but it was along the lines of that dunstall covered all the bases including having a defensive aspect to his game, which the other two didn't have. It actually made me think for a bit because Kennedy was spot on with his words. I guess thats a tick against Ablett Sr., his defensive pressure.

It's also a myth. And ignores completely how matchwinners played, especially in the early to mid '80s, when Ablett (and Lockett started). The best players were there to win the game, so they were let off the leash. The coach didn't worry what they couldn't do, they focused on what they could do. And this went for Ablett with Geelong, Lockett for St.Kilda, Matthews for Hawthorn, Wilson for Fitzroy and so on. Yet again, the rather hilarious notion of applying modern football philosophies to a previous era as justification for why your particular favourite was better.

Put it this way; I never saw Ablett apply a one-armed almost tackle like Travis Varcoe does. It might not have been drilled into those players as much, but he could and did do it when he had to. Just like everyone else.

 

[SJ]

It's also a myth. And ignores completely how matchwinners played, especially in the early to mid '80s, when Ablett (and Lockett started). The best players were there to win the game, so they were let off the leash. The coach didn't worry what they couldn't do, they focused on what they could do. And this went for Ablett with Geelong, Lockett for St.Kilda, Matthews for Hawthorn, Wilson for Fitzroy and so on. Yet again, the rather hilarious notion of applying modern football philosophies to a previous era as justification for why your particular favourite was better.

Put it this way; I never saw Ablett apply a one-armed almost tackle like Travis Varcoe does. It might not have been drilled into those players as much, but he could and did do it when he had to. Just like everyone else.

 

[Partridge]

Some of your finest work there SJ. Superb.

Don't you just hate it when idiotic myths are destroyed?

 

[SJ]

Some of your finest work there SJ. Superb.

Don't you just hate it when idiotic myths are destroyed?

It's Bobby_ 's video, but it's a good one.

Not to mention that Ablett senior was famously feared for his hip and shoulders. If they aren't defensive, not sure what is.

 

[Rod Stroker]

He was talking about the John Kennedy name and the burden/pressure/expectation the name carried.

Obviously. But that's my point. He was able to achieve all that he did regardless of his name.
So he had all that success and then Mike asks him: "do you wish you were someone else?"
I cringed.
It was the lowlight in an otherwise good interview.

Who's on next week?

 

[Dogs Rule]

Obviously. But that's my point. He was able to achieve all that he did regardless of his name.
So he had all that success and then Mike asks him: "do you wish you were someone else?"
I cringed.
It was the lowlight in an otherwise good interview.

Who's on next week?

Fair point. I think Mike has run out of questions more than once on that show.

Some people aren't interesting enough to fill a half hour program.

 

[lewigie]

..Most of those assists were from Ablett taking shots at goal and teammates being in the right place. Doesn't really respond to the argument!

 

[Bluez Rule]

It's Bobby_ 's video, but it's a good one.

Not to mention that Ablett senior was famously feared for his hip and shoulders. If they aren't defensive, not sure what is.

If you were a defender under a high ball and knowing that Ablett or Plugger was heading your way the last thing you would have been worried about was a tackle. THeir defensive "pressure" in this circumstance was knowing you were going to be breathing out your feet for a while after they came to say hello.

 

[Hodgepodge]

LOL, a 4 minute video of assists and tackles over a career doesn't dispel any myths.

 

[Bluez Rule]

Enjoyed the Kennedy Jr interview, honest, self effacing and some real insights. Loved the bit about Senior saying that Junior "will eat his tripe (or whatever it was) or no food tonight, tomorrow etc". Reckon that voice booming at you would get you to eat anything.
Fascinating to observe the mindset of players like him who were part of such a successful era...... play hard, party hard and have lots of laughs along the way. SOmething that the players today could only dream of.

 

[Rod Stroker]

Stewart Loewe on next week. Not sure about this one. Yeah he played lots of games, took lots of marks, kicked lots of goals, played in a team that had highs and lows over the years, but is there 30 mins in his story?
I'm expecting similar to Neitz, which was meh.

 

[blueboy25]

Stewart Loewe on next week. Not sure about this one. Yeah he played lots of games, took lots of marks, kicked lots of goals, played in a team that had highs and lows over the years, but is there 30 mins in his story?
I'm expecting similar to Neitz, which was meh.

Closest mike can get to Plugger so expect plenty of questions such as:
How was it playing with Plugger, tell us more about what sort of fella Plugger is etc etc

 

[Modified Dog]

It's also a myth. And ignores completely how matchwinners played, especially in the early to mid '80s, when Ablett (and Lockett started). The best players were there to win the game, so they were let off the leash. The coach didn't worry what they couldn't do, they focused on what they could do. And this went for Ablett with Geelong, Lockett for St.Kilda, Matthews for Hawthorn, Wilson for Fitzroy and so on. Yet again, the rather hilarious notion of applying modern football philosophies to a previous era as justification for why your particular favourite was better.

No, it's not a myth.

I can understand why a Geelong fan such as yourself would say that. The Cats under John Devine & Malcolm Blight were pure offense. They attacked like no tomorrow. They ran forwards of the ball and didn't worry too much about defence. The Hawks didn't play that way. They had a better balance between attack and defence.

When Hawks such as Dermie, Dipper, Ayres, Dunstall or Curran were interviewed on radio back in the late 80's, they often spoke about out-tackling the opposition and putting pressure on them to force mistakes and turnovers. This was YEARS before everyone caught on and realised defence was not just the back half of the ground, but the whole ground. Makes me laugh that people think Ross Lyon invented "frontal pressure" with St Kilda in 2009. (It's all relative, I think. Defensive pressure has gone to a new level in the past 10 years. In the 80's it was practically non-existent.)

Back in the 80's, Hawthorn would set tackle counts for each quarter and make it their mission to get extra numbers at every contest. They were years ahead of the competition in this regard. Their belief was they had the predictable winning gameplan and the skills under pressure to beat anyone (much like Geelong from 2007 to 2011.) It was simply a matter of applying relentless pressure and eventually their opponents would crack. Whether it be 1st quarter or the last, it didn't matter. At some point, they knew most of their opponents would turn up their toes, the game would break wide open and the Hawks' superior skills & predictable running would take over.

The Hawk forwards defended better than anyone else and their backmen rebounded better than anyone else. That's the main reason why they made seven successive Grand Finals in the 80's (8 Grand Finals in 9 years from 1983 to 1991).

Put it this way; I never saw Ablett apply a one-armed almost tackle like Travis Varcoe does. It might not have been drilled into those players as much, but he could and did do it when he had to. Just like everyone else.

You don't get it. It's not a question of tackling technique. Lockett, Dunstall and Ablett were the last guys you'd want to run near if you had the ball. They buried their opponents.

It's more a question of their defensive application when the ball wasn't in their immediate vicinity. Their willingness to chase and harass opponents into making an error (when 9 times out of 10, the chase would be futile). Their willingness to man up and prevent their opponent from running off them and creating a loose man. This was a feature of Dunstall's game. He wasn't simply a finisher. He created goals for his teammates with his defensive hustle. He was ahead of his time in that regard.

Dunstall famously denied himself a chance of equalling Fred Fanning's record for 18 goals when he shadowed his opponent step for step all the way up the outer wing at Waverley. But this wasn't a one-off celebrated exception to the norm. That's exactly how he always played. Always the team first. Unlike most forwards, he didn't base his game purely on how many goals he kicked. All of this is par for the course nowadays. Coaches demand their forwards defend and keep the ball locked in. But it wasn't that way in the 80's and early 90's. You admit that in your post above.

People talk about this player or that player "changing the way the game is played". Often, it is just a myth. More a case of a footballer being blessed with superior athletic ability to his hapless opponents and making full use of his advantage. Nothing revolutionary about their game. They were just better. However, I think Jason Dunstall actually does provide a stark example of a footballer who changed the way the game is played. Before he came along, the champion forwards were simply there, as you put it, "to win the game; they were let off the leash. Coaches didn't worry what they couldn't do, they focused on what they could do", etc, etc…

I bet you've always been happy to read about Polly Farmer's exploits and the way he changed the game. Just imagine if somebody came along and said "Who cares whether a ruckman is nimble and agile, and who gets outside of the packs and sets up his rovers with handball? That's not a ruckman's job. He's there to win the hit-outs, provide muscle, split packs and clear a path for his little men."

IMO, Dunstall changed the expectations of what key forwards should be doing, just as Polly Farmer changed the expectations of what ruckmen should be doing. They both brought an all-round competitive mentality to the specialist position they played.

 

[Rod Stroker]

Closest mike can get to Plugger so expect plenty of questions such as:
How was it playing with Plugger, tell us more about what sort of fella Plugger is etc etc

I think the closest Mike could get to Plugger would be Frawley. Who I'd expect him to have on at some point (surprised he hasn't already given he's already at Fox); playing 200+ games at the Saints, coaching Richmond to their first prelim in a gazllion years, state of origin, etc.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I think the closest Mike could get to Plugger would be Frawley. Who I'd expect him to have on at some point (surprised he hasn't already given he's already at Fox); playing 200+ games at the Saints, coaching Richmond to their first prelim in a gazllion years, state of origin, etc.

6 years, not a gazillion...

I haven't watched all of these, what are the best 5 episodes?

 

[Rod Stroker]

6 years, not a gazillion...

Right you are.

I haven't watched all of these, what are the best 5 episodes?

For me probably Pike, Capper, Blight, Hawkins, would be in my top 5

 

[Nostradumbass]

Right you are.

For me probably Pike, Capper, Blight, Hawkins, would be in my top 5

Haven't seen any of those, I'll look em up on Youtube.

 

[red+black]

Haven't seen any of those, I'll look em up on Youtube.

I'm sure there will be a heap of repeats over Summer

 

[Rod Stroker]

We should start a poll for peoples favourite OM episodes. On one of the posts in this thread The Wookie listed every single ep, should find it, re-post and get a poll going.

 

[yaco55]

No, it's not a myth.

I can understand why a Geelong fan such as yourself would say that. The Cats under John Devine & Malcolm Blight were pure offense. They attacked like no tomorrow. They ran forwards of the ball and didn't worry too much about defence. The Hawks didn't play that way. They had a better balance between attack and defence.

When Hawks such as Dermie, Dipper, Ayres, Dunstall or Curran were interviewed on radio back in the late 80's, they often spoke about out-tackling the opposition and putting pressure on them to force mistakes and turnovers. This was YEARS before everyone caught on and realised defence was not just the back half of the ground, but the whole ground. Makes me laugh that people think Ross Lyon invented "frontal pressure" with St Kilda in 2009. (It's all relative, I think. Defensive pressure has gone to a new level in the past 10 years. In the 80's it was practically non-existent.)

Back in the 80's, Hawthorn would set tackle counts for each quarter and make it their mission to get extra numbers at every contest. They were years ahead of the competition in this regard. Their belief was they had the predictable winning gameplan and the skills under pressure to beat anyone (much like Geelong from 2007 to 2011.) It was simply a matter of applying relentless pressure and eventually their opponents would crack. Whether it be 1st quarter or the last, it didn't matter. At some point, they knew most of their opponents would turn up their toes, the game would break wide open and the Hawks' superior skills & predictable running would take over.

The Hawk forwards defended better than anyone else and their backmen rebounded better than anyone else. That's the main reason why they made seven successive Grand Finals in the 80's (8 Grand Finals in 9 years from 1983 to 1991).

You don't get it. It's not a question of tackling technique. Lockett, Dunstall and Ablett were the last guys you'd want to run near if you had the ball. They buried their opponents.

It's more a question of their defensive application when the ball wasn't in their immediate vicinity. Their willingness to chase and harass opponents into making an error (when 9 times out of 10, the chase would be futile). Their willingness to man up and prevent their opponent from running off them and creating a loose man. This was a feature of Dunstall's game. He wasn't simply a finisher. He created goals for his teammates with his defensive hustle. He was ahead of his time in that regard.

Dunstall famously denied himself a chance of equalling Fred Fanning's record for 18 goals when he shadowed his opponent step for step all the way up the outer wing at Waverley. But this wasn't a one-off celebrated exception to the norm. That's exactly how he always played. Always the team first. Unlike most forwards, he didn't base his game purely on how many goals he kicked. All of this is par for the course nowadays. Coaches demand their forwards defend and keep the ball locked in. But it wasn't that way in the 80's and early 90's. You admit that in your post above.

People talk about this player or that player "changing the way the game is played". Often, it is just a myth. More a case of a footballer being blessed with superior athletic ability to his hapless opponents and making full use of his advantage. Nothing revolutionary about their game. They were just better. However, I think Jason Dunstall actually does provide a stark example of a footballer who changed the way the game is played. Before he came along, the champion forwards were simply there, as you put it, "to win the game; they were let off the leash. Coaches didn't worry what they couldn't do, they focused on what they could do", etc, etc…

I bet you've always been happy to read about Polly Farmer's exploits and the way he changed the game. Just imagine if somebody came along and said "Who cares whether a ruckman is nimble and agile, and who gets outside of the packs and sets up his rovers with handball? That's not a ruckman's job. He's there to win the hit-outs, provide muscle, split packs and clear a path for his little men."

IMO, Dunstall changed the expectations of what key forwards should be doing, just as Polly Farmer changed the expectations of what ruckmen should be doing. They both brought an all-round competitive mentality to the specialist position they played.

Nice story - Pity that defensive pressure started with Carlton's smalls in the late 70's and early 80's

 

[yaco55]

Stewart Loewe on next week. Not sure about this one. Yeah he played lots of games, took lots of marks, kicked lots of goals, played in a team that had highs and lows over the years, but is there 30 mins in his story?
I'm expecting similar to Neitz, which was meh.

One that slipped through the Hawk's nest. best clunker of the ball in my experience.

 

[Hammer#8]

Stewart Loewe on next week. Not sure about this one. Yeah he played lots of games, took lots of marks, kicked lots of goals, played in a team that had highs and lows over the years, but is there 30 mins in his story?
I'm expecting similar to Neitz, which was meh.

'So Stewart, do you regret playing for St Kilda?'

 

[TheJanuaryMan]

reckon it will be interesting just to hear his thoughts on the blight "era" alone.

 

[Rainfall]

'So Stewart, do you regret playing for St Kilda?'

Wouldn't you?