Oppo Camp Opposition Watch

[Jirik13]

Sorry, I forgot to check who the OP was, and because you replied and I cut and pasted your reply out of the lounge thread when I realised where I posted, I automatically assumed you were the OP.

As for treatment on our board, I would hope that as long as the posts were civil, the replies would be civil as well.

That's ok. As for Lions board, I once put a decent post about Brown stupid comments he made about McCartin's concussion issues. The response was not nice to say the least from some. Every thread has issues.

 

[briztoon]

Quality of your depth has not been tested yet as you miss usually only 1-2 best 22. I probably forgot someone but Cutler, Christensen, Keays, Bastinac, Lester, Walker are average players at best (Walker probably the best to my surpirse), after that a lot of untried, young players you don't know yet if they will make it at AFL. Personally, I would actually prefer if Fagan would give them more opportunity and develop them faster as even if Lions make finals, the current team has not chance to winning it all.

Yeah, that's a common discussion on the Lions board. I for one am in the camp of playing more of our kids at AFL level, but for most of last years draftees, they've all had minor injury interruptions this season. The only kid who hasn't is Noah Answerth, and it's no surprise he's the one kid who has made his AFL debut.

Also, all of our 2017 draftees have also had minor injuries as well. Rayner has played through his, while Bailey and Starcevich have missed significant time due to hamstrings, Payne has had a stress fracture, while Ballenden isn't up to AFL standard yet.

I agree that Keays and Bastinac are average players. Lester is actually a very good utility, he just is vey one paced and has the turning circle of the Queen Mary.

Cutler has all the tools, but is being asked to work harder defensively, which is keeping him out of the best 22. There are a lot of Lions fans who want him in the senior team, but he appears to be Fagan's whipping boy.

Walker is a lesser version of Andrews.

That's ok. As for Lions board, I once put a decent post about Brown stupid comments he made about McCartin's concussion issues. The response was not nice to say the least from some. Every thread has issues.

I remember. That was a very "interesting" discussion, and there were some Lions supporters who shared your view.

 

[Jirik13]

I remember. That was a very "interesting" discussion, and there were some Lions supporters who shared your view.

Yes, and some wanted me to leave asap. While I watch every Lions game and have interest in them I gave up on Lions forum. Not worth the hustle.

Yeah, that's a common discussion on the Lions board. I for one am in the camp of playing more of our kids at AFL level, but for most of last years draftees, they've all had minor injury interruptions this season. The only kid who hasn't is Noah Answerth, and it's no surprise he's the one kid who has made his AFL debut.

Also, all of our 2017 draftees have also had minor injuries as well. Rayner has played through his, while Bailey and Starcevich have missed significant time due to hamstrings, Payne has had a stress fracture, while Ballenden isn't up to AFL standard yet.

I agree that Keays and Bastinac are average players. Lester is actually a very good utility, he just is vey one paced and has the turning circle of the Queen Mary.

Cutler has all the tools, but is being asked to work harder defensively, which is keeping him out of the best 22. There are a lot of Lions fans who want him in the senior team, but he appears to be Fagan's whipping boy.

Walker is a lesser version of Andrews.

I agree with your assessment.

What happened to Wooller? I assume Cutler could be a traded. Lester has a lightning speed compared to Suns GHS. Answerth showed enough for me to make it.

I have a feeling Fagan goes more for success, stability now while Suns committee selects with a view of a 2022 team. It's great to see progress shown by players like Ballard, Powell, King, Lukosius even though it costs us sometimes. Some people would argue that they should be developing in reserves.

 

[briztoon]

I agree with your assessment.

What happened to Wooller? I assume Cutler could be a traded. Lester has a lightning speed compared to Suns GHS. Answerth showed enough for me to make it.

I have a feeling Fagan goes more for success, stability now while Suns committee selects with a view of a 2022 team. It's great to see progress shown by players like Ballard, Powell, King, Lukosius even though it costs us sometimes. Some people would argue that they should be developing in reserves.

It will take an injury to Hipwood or McStay for Wooller to get a run.

You're lucky we lost to the Saints on the weekend given you have them up next and you seem to lose to all of the teams (albeit only 3) that we have won against this year. Given the injuries we have and the amount of close games we have won or lost by, I don't think we are too far behind.

Why are Lions fans allowed to post here?

I'm not. I ****ed up the other night when I replied to Corkie's post, not realising which thread I was in. When Jirik13 replied to my post, I realised I had ****ed up, moved my replies to Jirik13 here, and apologised for posting in your No Opposition Supporters thread.

 

[Seventeener]

I'm not. I ****ed up the other night when I replied to Corkie's post, not realising which thread I was in. When Jirik13 replied to my post, I realised I had ****ed up, moved my replies to Jirik13 here, and apologised for posting in your No Opposition Supporters thread.

Fair enough.

 

[briztoon]

Astute observation there, although I think St Kilda will fancy themselves to win at Marvel. Lions remind me of last year's Melbourne side, which had the ability and injury luck to go deep into finals, but were found out in the Preliminary Final and did not come back from a short offseason in shape or form. There is also a difference in how the Suns and Lions treat injuries. Many Lions players will play through injury because it is a part of AFL life to have niggles and even quite serious degradation to tendons and ligaments that can be played through and managed until season's end (look at Melbourne at the end of 2018). However, with the Suns younger players there always seems to be a very cautious approach, injuries are allowed extra time to heal, comebacks are usually through the NEAFL on managed time and players are put through a preventative regime so that they don't re-injure or risk further injury to players who might otherwise have come back in the 2nd half of the season. Jack Martin was shut down last year after a training mishap. Brayden Fiorini has played half the footy he might have if not for careful injury management.

That isn't to say that the Lions haven't got a good injury management program because they obviously do or they wouldn't be winning so much. However, it is different to the Suns and I suspect the reason is that so many of the Suns injuries over the past few years have been to younger players.

I don't believe we're as good as, or as strong as last years Melbourne team.

I believe we would be extremely lucky to win in the first round of finals (or make finals, as I can see us possibly falling off a cliff in the second half of the season).


A lot has been made of our improved medical team at the Lions. We do have players who do have player play through injury though. I know both Rockliff and Beams were asked to play out the 2017 season carrying shoulder injuries from early in the season to help protect our 2016 draftees from carrying too heavy a load. Both went for surgery at the end of the season.

 

[Seventeener]

I don't believe we're as good as, or as strong as last years Melbourne team.

I believe we would be extremely lucky to win in the first round of finals (or make finals, as I can see us possibly falling off a cliff in the second half of the season).


A lot has been made of our improved medical team at the Lions. We do have players who do have player play through injury though. I know both Rockliff and Beams were asked to play out the 2017 season carrying shoulder injuries from early in the season to help protect our 2016 draftees from carrying too heavy a load. Both went for surgery at the end of the season.

The difference of a year is about right though. Chris Fagan has churned over the list 3 times now, with around 30 players gone since he took over. Dew and his GMs have gone through well over 20 and his 2nd offseason was brutal, so now there will also be salary cap space to get players who can propel the team into finals within another year or two.

The ladder by the end of the season tends to split into 3rds, mainly because it is designed that way by the schedule. Melbourne finished middle 6 in 2017, so they had the kind of schedule to move upwards while a side like Adelaide tumbled down the ladder with their tough schedule. This year, Melbourne have had a really tough Schedule because they've had to play 11 games against Top 8 sides and only play bottom sides once each apart from St Kilda, who they have twice and so far it has benefited St Kilda. Meanwhile, the Lions have a bottom 6 schedule and have been losing to them! Except the Suns, of course. I think the Lions will finish middle 6, which can still mean finals, but more likely to be on the cusp.

I am also a big believer in NEAFL success translating into future senior success. The 2017 Lions cut their teeth on senior footy in the seconds and many of them are now playing senior footy. The 2nd wave is coming through now and by the end of the year, you'll know how Swans fans feel when they trade or delist really good players because they have even better players coming up and they are a destination club for trade recruits.

 

[Mini GF]

View from afar this week up here in the AFL outpost
WCE yelling Brayshaw slimy
Kennett racial vilification slimy
Stratton pinching slimy
Clarkson trial by media cry slimy
McLachlan half baked apology slimy

Condescending views by oppo posters toward us about “culture”...total BS

We are wayyyyy better. Now need the cattle on the list and patience to bring it through.

 

[briztoon]

The difference of a year is about right though. Chris Fagan has churned over the list 3 times now, with around 30 players gone since he took over. Dew and his GMs have gone through well over 20 and his 2nd offseason was brutal, so now there will also be salary cap space to get players who can propel the team into finals within another year or two.

The ladder by the end of the season tends to split into 3rds, mainly because it is designed that way by the schedule. Melbourne finished middle 6 in 2017, so they had the kind of schedule to move upwards while a side like Adelaide tumbled down the ladder with their tough schedule. This year, Melbourne have had a really tough Schedule because they've had to play 11 games against Top 8 sides and only play bottom sides once each apart from St Kilda, who they have twice and so far it has benefited St Kilda. Meanwhile, the Lions have a bottom 6 schedule and have been losing to them! Except the Suns, of course. I think the Lions will finish middle 6, which can still mean finals, but more likely to be on the cusp.

I am also a big believer in NEAFL success translating into future senior success. The 2017 Lions cut their teeth on senior footy in the seconds and many of them are now playing senior footy. The 2nd wave is coming through now and by the end of the year, you'll know how Swans fans feel when they trade or delist really good players because they have even better players coming up and they are a destination club for trade recruits.

I still believe you lack enough top tier, senior talent in your best 22, and until you can trade some more in, or your kids mature faster than expected, I still believe you're more than a year behind us in terms of development and ladder position.

It the same reason why Carlton are still down the bottom of the ladder, even though they arguably have more top young kids than either the Suns or the Lions. They don't have enough senior talent to guide the kids on the field.

 

[Seventeener]

I still believe you lack enough top tier, senior talent in your best 22, and until you can trade some more in, or your kids mature faster than expected, I still believe you're more than a year behind us in terms of development and ladder position.

It the same reason why Carlton are still down the bottom of the ladder, even though they arguably have more top young kids than either the Suns or the Lions. They don't have enough senior talent to guide the kids on the field.

The main reason that Miles, Murdoch, Young, GHS, Hombsch and Collins were brought in was to replace all the players of that age group who have left a vacuum of maturity, even if we managed to replace their talent at the Draft. Dixon, Lynch, May, Prestia, O'Meara, Bennell, are all 25 to 28, which is the age group of the foundation Suns. The other reason for the mature agers coming in was to give the young talent time to develop - there are currently 4 Draft classes maturing - 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 - because almost everything before that was a bust or else the players were traded for picks. 2014 as a draft year has been saved from ignominy by the recruitment of Weller and Ellis, with Miller being 1st round value, the Suns now look like one of the biggest winners from that Draft year.

By October, there will be 15 Suns on the list over 25, whereas, last October there were only 7. You are quite right, however, the AFL never set up the Suns to have players over 26 in 2019 because even after 9 Drafts recruiting 17 year olds the oldest one is 26. The Suns will be targeting some mature talent to go with high draft picks and Academy talent, but I'm not so convinced it has to be some great white hope.

Look at the Lions in the 90s. After so many failed attempts at landing a saviour - Mark Williams, Brad Hardie, Warwick Capper, Roger Merrett - the Bears had signed Alastair Lynch to a 10 year contract and then Lynch was struck down with CFS. What was significant about that was that the Lions had grown a list of locals and astute draft picks and was winning anyway despite Lynch's crippling contract and the merger. The saviour was the new TV deal that 9 and 10 won from the AFL which increased the salary cap and meant the Lions could adopt a win-now recruitment strategy. There are some similarities with the Suns now, but I'd rather a Mal Michael and a Martin Pike than an Alastair Lynch on Buddy money.

 

[briztoon]

The main reason that Miles, Murdoch, Young, GHS, Hombsch and Collins were brought in was to replace all the players of that age group who have left a vacuum of maturity, even if we managed to replace their talent at the Draft. Dixon, Lynch, May, Prestia, O'Meara, Bennell, are all 25 to 28, which is the age group of the foundation Suns. The other reason for the mature agers coming in was to give the young talent time to develop - there are currently 4 Draft classes maturing - 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 - because almost everything before that was a bust or else the players were traded for picks. 2014 as a draft year has been saved from ignominy by the recruitment of Weller and Ellis, with Miller being 1st round value, the Suns now look like one of the biggest winners from that Draft year.

By October, there will be 15 Suns on the list over 25, whereas, last October there were only 7. You are quite right, however, the AFL never set up the Suns to have players over 26 in 2019 because even after 9 Drafts recruiting 17 year olds the oldest one is 26. The Suns will be targeting some mature talent to go with high draft picks and Academy talent, but I'm not so convinced it has to be some great white hope.

Look at the Lions in the 90s. After so many failed attempts at landing a saviour - Mark Williams, Brad Hardie, Warwick Capper, Roger Merrett - the Bears had signed Alastair Lynch to a 10 year contract and then Lynch was struck down with CFS. What was significant about that was that the Lions had grown a list of locals and astute draft picks and was winning anyway despite Lynch's crippling contract and the merger. The saviour was the new TV deal that 9 and 10 won from the AFL which increased the salary cap and meant the Lions could adopt a win-now recruitment strategy. There are some similarities with the Suns now, but I'd rather a Mal Michael and a Martin Pike than an Alastair Lynch on Buddy money.

I've said this before.

I see a lot of similarities to the Lions of 2014 and 2015, after we lost the GH5 in 2013.

In 2014 instead of heading to the draft, we traded most of our picks for mature talent to bolster our list. Most of that talent turned out to be C grade talent at best, and by 2017, our fresh draftees were walk up starts ahead of almost all the mature talent we traded in. From that trade period we only have Mitch Robinson and Allen Christensen left on the list, and Christensen has been cripled by repeated collar bone injuries and is a shadow of the player we drafted.

Now, I'm not saying your recruited a lot of C grade talent, but for mine, by and large, they not the same calibre of player as the Lions current senior players. And I fully expect, with the possible exception of Collins, that they'll all be surpassed by 2018's and 2019's draftees, and that Collins and possibly Hombsch, might be the only regular in next years team.

 

[Seventeener]

I've said this before.

I see a lot of similarities to the Lions of 2014 and 2015, after we lost the GH5 in 2013.

In 2014 instead of heading to the draft, we traded most of our picks for mature talent to bolster our list. Most of that talent turned out to be C grade talent at best, and by 2017, our fresh draftees were walk up starts ahead of almost all the mature talent we traded in. From that trade period we only have Mitch Robinson and Allen Christensen left on the list, and Christensen has been cripled by repeated collar bone injuries and is a shadow of the player we drafted.

Now, I'm not saying your recruited a lot of C grade talent, but for mine, by and large, they not the same calibre of player as the Lions current senior players. And I fully expect, with the possible exception of Collins, that they'll all be surpassed by 2018's and 2019's draftees, and that Collins and possibly Hombsch, might be the only regular in next years team.

Don't forget that the Suns have been going to Free Agency and the Trade table since 2014 as well. That year we got Malceski and Raines, who are both still with the club in coaching roles, then in 2015 we got Ryan Davis, Jarrad Grant and Matt Rosa. In 2016, Lyons, Witts, Barlow and Hanley came in along with our super crop of draft picks, then in 2017 we got Weller, Young, Holman and Wigg, while in 2018 the current crop of mature recruits.

So that's 3 consecutive offseasons of bringing in B and C graders that have stuck (after Dew got rid of most of Eade's list cloggers). Witts and Hanley are great leaders, while Holman is the most under-rated player at the Suns and Weller has been an excellent recruit. Murdoch, GHS, Miles, Hombsch and Collins are solid recruits, with Wigg, Young, Burgess, Ellis and Corbett needing to further prove themselves.

 

[briztoon]

Don't forget that the Suns have been going to Free Agency and the Trade table since 2014 as well. That year we got Malceski and Raines, who are both still with the club in coaching roles, then in 2015 we got Ryan Davis, Jarrad Grant and Matt Rosa. In 2016, Lyons, Witts, Barlow and Hanley came in along with our super crop of draft picks, then in 2017 we got Weller, Young, Holman and Wigg, while in 2018 the current crop of mature recruits.

So that's 3 consecutive offseasons of bringing in B and C graders that have stuck (after Dew got rid of most of Eade's list cloggers). Witts and Hanley are great leaders, while Holman is the most under-rated player at the Suns and Weller has been an excellent recruit. Murdoch, GHS, Miles, Hombsch and Collins are solid recruits, with Wigg, Young, Burgess, Ellis and Corbett needing to further prove themselves.

OK, so I count Witts, Holman and Weller as your B graders, with Weller a possible A grader, and Collins as a possible B grader. The rest are C grade at best, delisted already (funny that Lyons is now with us, even though you counted him), or on their last legs (Hanley). Still doesn't change my view of your list. You don't have the same depth of top talent in that 26+ age bracket. And you're about par in talent in the 22 to 26 age bracket, and I know the Lions feel that they're still light on in that age bracket for talent. And we're about the same for young talent.

 

[Jirik13]

You don't have the same depth of top talent in that 26+ age bracket

What is Lions list for this bracket in your opinion?

 

[Seventeener]

OK, so I count Witts, Holman and Weller as your B graders, with Weller a possible A grader, and Collins as a possible B grader. The rest are C grade at best, delisted already (funny that Lyons is now with us, even though you counted him), or on their last legs (Hanley). Still doesn't change my view of your list. You don't have the same depth of top talent in that 26+ age bracket. And you're about par in talent in the 22 to 26 age bracket, and I know the Lions feel that they're still light on in that age bracket for talent. And we're about the same for young talent.

Let's get one thing crystal clear. Miles is an upgrade on Lyons. In fact, one day when Corey Lyons is playing too well not to be in the senior side, I guarantee it will be Jarryd Lyons who comes out of the side. No sour grapes, just based on close observation. Stuart Dew agrees with me, which was why Lyons got his free pass after being told he'd be playing NEAFL.

 

[briztoon]

What is Lions list for this bracket in your opinion?

I won't include Hodge.

Daniel Rich
Dayne Zorko
Stef Martin
Mitch Robinson
Lachie Neale
Linc McCarthy
Jarryd Lyons
Ryan Lester

Can't include Marcus Adams yet, as he is only just coming back from injury, and hasn't proven his body can handle AFL again.


Age group below.
Charlie Cameron
Dan McStay
Darcy Gardiner
Lewy Taylor
Harris Andrews
Oscar McInerney

Can't include Tom Cutler or Nick Robertson as they are to much in and out of the first team.

 

[Seventeener]

OK, so I count Witts, Holman and Weller as your B graders, with Weller a possible A grader, and Collins as a possible B grader. The rest are C grade at best, delisted already (funny that Lyons is now with us, even though you counted him), or on their last legs (Hanley). Still doesn't change my view of your list. You don't have the same depth of top talent in that 26+ age bracket. And you're about par in talent in the 22 to 26 age bracket, and I know the Lions feel that they're still light on in that age bracket for talent. And we're about the same for young talent.

My very point is that the Suns haven't got enough 26+ players. Next year Collins and Sexton will be in that age group, which is why 2011 was such a poor year for the Suns because just when we needed another injection of talent, the AFL gave everything to GWS. As for the 22-26 bracket, very soon Fiorini, Ah Chee, MacPherson, Bowes and Ainsworth will be in that group, which is actually pretty damn good with Miller, Wright, Martin, Holman and Weller, but I'd add Ellis, Wigg and Lemmens as having massive late bloomer potential.

 

[briztoon]

Let's get one thing crystal clear. Miles is an upgrade on Lyons. In fact, one day when Corey Lyons is playing too well not to be in the senior side, I guarantee it will be Jarryd Lyons who comes out of the side. No sour grapes, just based on close observation. Stuart Dew agrees with me, which was why Lyons got his free pass after being told he'd be playing NEAFL.

Jarryd Lyons has been pretty good for us. He had a down period of 3 games, but otherwise Lions fans are pretty happy with his production so far.

But it won't be Corey Lyons pushing big brother out. Corey most likely gets delisted at seasons end. We have a big list squeeze coming this year. It will be Zac Bailey, Ely Smith, Tom Joyce and Tom Berry who more than likely push Jarryd out of the senior team next year.

My very point is that the Suns haven't got enough 26+ players. Next year Collins and Sexton will be in that age group, which is why 2011 was such a poor year for the Suns because just when we needed another injection of talent, the AFL gave everything to GWS. As for the 22-26 bracket, very soon Fiorini, Ah Chee, MacPherson, Bowes and Ainsworth will be in that group, which is actually pretty damn good with Miller, Wright, Martin, Holman and Weller, but I'd add Ellis, Wigg and Lemmens as having massive late bloomer potential.

I understand. And that has been my point about why the Suns look like they're more than One year behind the Lions.

I didn't count any of our 2015 or 2016 draftees when mentioning our current 22-26 bracket players.

I'm genuinely not sure how you can count Wigg as having late bloomer potential.

 

[Seventeener]

I understand. And that has been my point about why the Suns look like they're more than One year behind the Lions.

I didn't count any of our 2015 or 2016 draftees when mentioning our current 22-26 bracket players.

I'm genuinely not sure how you can count Wigg as having late bloomer potential.

Wigg will either be on our list next year or not. Easy to rule him out now when he's injured, but before that he played 50 SANFL games including finals and was senior emergency 5 times in an up and going Adelaide side where he couldn't get a start behind Lyons and Crouch. He was never going to break into the Crows top side late in 2017, although he was considered in their best 25 by the end of that season. Wigg was selected at #35 in the 2nd round of a really strong Draft year where Touk Miller drifted out to #29. He goes and nobody would be surprised because 2 years on a list without coming close to making a contribution is not what the Suns required, but if he remains on the rookie list then he's a 23 year old body with an unknown ceiling of potential - it will come down to how the club judges his character.

 

[Jirik13]

I won't include Hodge.

Daniel Rich
Dayne Zorko
Stef Martin
Mitch Robinson
Lachie Neale
Linc McCarthy
Jarryd Lyons
Ryan Lester

Can't include Marcus Adams yet, as he is only just coming back from injury, and hasn't proven his body can handle AFL again.


Age group below.
Charlie Cameron
Dan McStay
Darcy Gardiner
Lewy Taylor
Harris Andrews
Oscar McInerney

Can't include Tom Cutler or Nick Robertson as they are to much in and out of the first team.

Thanks for that.

Here is Suns best 24 in 2020 round 1 in my opinion. I rounded it to 39 with some depth. I am happy with that. Extra 1-2 quality players (Blakely, Langdon for me) would be handy no doubt.

26+
Witts, Swallow, Hanley, Thompson, Collins, Sexton, Lemmens, Martin, Miles

Yes, Lions have Neale but this Suns list is more than capable mature group and comparable to Lions one. Yes, Harbrow and Hanley will turn 32 next year. Lions have next year Martin 34, Zorko 31, Rich 30, Robinson 31.

- depth Hombsh, Day, Murdoch, Young, GHS
Hombsh could actually be in our best 22 as Joyce from 22-25. Day too based on his performance against Saints. Murdoch is interesting case. He had some good games and some bad one. I take it easy on him for now as he never played in defence and our defence is usually under enormous pressure. Any defence would look stupid sometimes when facing 60+ I50. GHS - great to have around to club by all reports but NEAFL only please.

22-25
Ah Chee, Ainsworth, Bowes, Fiorini, Weller, Holman, Macpherson, Miller, Wright

A lot of talent here and significant improvement already this year and should turn into core. Some potential A midfielders there. All 4+ years in a system, 40+ games or more next year.

- depth Brodie, Joyce, Corbett, Burgess, Ellis, Scheer

Yes, we all hope that Brodie will prove himself in the remaining games this year. Personally, I believe Corbett (lot of talent) and Burgess will be fine players for us and surprise a lot of people after a couple of preseasons and getting more AFL games under belt. People forget they did not play AFL before. Both work hard, great attitude.

<21
Lukosius, Powell, Ballard, Rankine, King, Rowell/Anderson

If this is not awsome talent I don't know what it is. Powell, Ballard playing every game already this year, Lukosius, Rankine (who looked most ready in JLT) and King will probably play most games next year too. Watch out 2021-2022 (extensions would not hurt)

- depth Riordan, Graham, Crossley, McLennan, Budarick

Riordan in his first game against adults was promising. Great in contest, good speed, good body. Graham is improving every game. He will be a great interceptor for us of Lever type. McLennan after early struggles is developing nicely. Crossley needs still a couple of years to work on his body, tank. He has Mumford written all over him except he is actually much better below knees and playing forward.

Just give us your injury list! In 2020, 1 year older, with another running preseason, and gained experience from this year, Suns will be able to compete for 4 quarters.

 

[briztoon]

Thanks for that.

Here is Suns best 24 in 2020 round 1 in my opinion. I rounded it to 39 with some depth. I am happy with that. Extra 1-2 quality players (Blakely, Langdon for me) would be handy no doubt.

26+
Witts, Swallow, Hanley, Thompson, Collins, Sexton, Lemmens, Martin, Miles

Yes, Lions have Neale but this Suns list is more than capable mature group and comparable to Lions one. Yes, Harbrow and Hanley will turn 32 next year. Lions have next year Martin 34, Zorko 31, Rich 30, Robinson 31.

- depth Hombsh, Day, Murdoch, Young, GHS
Hombsh could actually be in our best 22 as Joyce from 22-25. Day too based on his performance against Saints. Murdoch is interesting case. He had some good games and some bad one. I take it easy on him for now as he never played in defence and our defence is usually under enormous pressure. Any defence would look stupid sometimes when facing 60+ I50. GHS - great to have around to club by all reports but NEAFL only please.

22-25
Ah Chee, Ainsworth, Bowes, Fiorini, Weller, Holman, Macpherson, Miller, Wright

A lot of talent here and significant improvement already this year and should turn into core. Some potential A midfielders there. All 4+ years in a system, 40+ games or more next year.

- depth Brodie, Joyce, Corbett, Burgess, Ellis, Scheer

Yes, we all hope that Brodie will prove himself in the remaining games this year. Personally, I believe Corbett (lot of talent) and Burgess will be fine players for us and surprise a lot of people after a couple of preseasons and getting more AFL games under belt. People forget they did not play AFL before. Both work hard, great attitude.

<21
Lukosius, Powell, Ballard, Rankine, King, Rowell/Anderson

If this is not awsome talent I don't know what it is. Powell, Ballard playing every game already this year, Lukosius, Rankine (who looked most ready in JLT) and King will probably play most games next year too. Watch out 2021-2022 (extensions would not hurt)

- depth Riordan, Graham, Crossley, McLennan, Budarick

Riordan in his first game against adults was promising. Great in contest, good speed, good body. Graham is improving every game. He will be a great interceptor for us of Lever type. McLennan after early struggles is developing nicely. Crossley needs still a couple of years to work on his body, tank. He has Mumford written all over him except he is actually much better below knees and playing forward.

Just give us your injury list! In 2020, 1 year older, with another running preseason, and gained experience from this year, Suns will be able to compete for 4 quarters.

Just on Hanley, I'm of the opinion that he's pretty much cooked from an injury perspective. I said the same of Dayne Beams all of last season as well, though Dayne also had some significant off field occurrences and activities impacting his mental well being, that were impacting his on field play.

I'm happy to disagree with you. You do have some quality mature age players, I particularly rate Swallow, even though he's been hampered by injuries, Harbrow and Sexton.

If we're looking at next years 22 to 26 age group, the Lions list is significantly longer than the Suns group. I didn't ist any of our 2015 draftees in my previous post, and you've added in your 2016 draftees as well. That adds Archie Smith, Hipwood, Mathieson, McCluggage, Berry, Witherden, and fringe players like Cedric Cox, Jacob Allison and Sam Skinner to the list in my previous post. Can't mention Corey Lyons, Ben Keays or Mitchell Hinge as I believe they'll all be delisted.


We can only wait and see how the next couple of seasons play out to find out who is right and who's assessment was off. I'll be hanging around, because knowing the Suns, they'll keep drafting kids that I like.

In this years draft, from a Lions perspective (and before we traded our first pick and appeared to have outperformed my expectations of the team) I always like Lachlan Ash and Sam Flanders. Wouldn't be surprised if Flanders drifted out to the Lions pick that you lot hold, come draft night.

 

[Jirik13]

Just on Hanley, I'm of the opinion that he's pretty much cooked from an injury perspective.

Many people are of the same opinion. I look at his type of injuries. You can do nothing about terrible cork requiring surgery, shoulder dislocation, heel injury - all bad luck. When he played this year he looked very good. Let's see if he can finish the season when he's back soon.

You forgot Witts when you talk about mature Suns quality players.

Let's see next year.

 

[briztoon]

Many people are of the same opinion. I look at his type of injuries. You can do nothing about terrible cork requiring surgery, shoulder dislocation, heel injury - all bad luck. When he played this year he looked very good. Let's if he can finish the season when he back soon.

You forgot Witts when you talk about mature Suns quality players.

Let's see next year.

I didn't forget Witts.

 

[Jirik13]

I didn't forget Witts.

You didn't mention him so I put him up as he is great this year How many years left for Martin? I was a bit surprised when he said recently he wants to play in 2020 and beyond.

 

[briztoon]

You didn't mention him so I put him up as he is great this year How many years left for Martin? I was a bit surprised when he said recently he wants to play in 2020 and beyond.

Martin is close to being overtaken by McInerney. I wouldn't be surprised if Martin and McInerney each play about half the games next year as sole ruck. Also wouldn't be surprised if we look to draft a young ruck at 2020's draft, and keep Martin on to coach him in 2021 in the NEAFL, and act as ruck depth behind McInerney and Archie Smith (and allows Martin to finish his law degree).

SA looks to have a very good ruck coming through for next years draft, Riley Thilthorpe.