OT: Terry Wallace

[Damp Squarie]

Do you remember when there were quite a few people on this board DEMANDING for him to be appointed

Some would argue he doesnt have the cattle at Richmond but he did have some prized heiffers at dogland and couldnt muster a yelp.

Hindsights a beautiful thing, but Im sure the AFC made the right decision by appointing Craigy.

 

[Crowked]

You have to wonder where to for Wallet now. He's taken an average side with seemingly good upside at the time to the bottom of the heap, and it seems a long way back from there. He's going to struggle to keep his job IMO, face it he's done a shit job. Certainly no one else would be wanting him either. Maybe a media role? Maybe he'll just slip of the radar all together.

Oh, and I wasnt one of those who wanted him. I always prefered Craigy, with Rodney Eade my second choice.

 

[- PC -]

I never demanded Wallace, I felt he would have been the better option after Ayres. I thought his ideas were sound and his discipline what was required.

Do I still want Wallace? HELL NO

 

[Viva la Mattner]

either in 2008 or 2009 Kevin Sheedy will be coaching at Punt Rd.

Wallace wont last if the doesnt get the slightest improvement from the players

 

[Alex99]

He has a huge contract with the Richmond Football Club ($5 Million over 5 year IIRC) so unless he tenders his resignation and quits as coach (meaning the club doesn’t have to pay out his contract) he will have 3 more years to develop the team to suit his style.

He already has 2 or 3 potential superstars (Deledio, Tambling and Andrew Raines) and 5 or 6 good young talented kids (Foley, Hughes, Myer, JON, Polak, Shultz) as well as 2 or 3 untried kids ( Jack Riewoldt and Shane Edwards) to potentially build around.

He is a good coach but I never subscribed to the theory that Terry Wallace could be a good coach for the AFC. I never believed he had the motivation to coach an interstate side. He is about the Victorian side of the media and pumping his side up that way. As well as the 97 and 98 finals losses with the dogs.

 

[tribey]

Do you remember when there were quite a few people on this board DEMANDING for him to be appointed

Yep. I was one of them.

Given the circumstances back then I'm still happy with my reasoning too.

If you were motivated to start this thread as a result of the shellacking on Sunday, tell me who was in charge of us when we were flogged by a record margin at the Gabba and then backed up the following week to go goalless in the first half against the Kangaroos.

It can turn around very quickly - a week ago Bomber Thompson looked set for the gallows, now he looks like a folk hero.

Form is fickle these days.

Some would argue he doesnt have the cattle at Richmond but he did have some prized heiffers at dogland and couldnt muster a yelp.

Couldn't muster a yelp at 'Dogland'?

What, took a side which had finished 15th to back to back Prelim finals (sound familiar?) with a top-4 ladder finish in 1999 and a further finals appearance in 2000?

If that's not mustering a yelp I'd hate to see what he'd have accomplished had they managed so much as a muffled growl.

Hindsights a beautiful thing, but Im sure the AFC made the right decision by appointing Craigy.

It would seem that way now, sure.

But let's see how Craig, Wallace and Eade have fared in 5 years.

 

[emperor]

You have to wonder where to for Wallet now. He's taken an average side with seemingly good upside at the time to the bottom of the heap, and it seems a long way back from there. He's going to struggle to keep his job IMO, face it he's done a shit job. Certainly no one else would be wanting him either. Maybe a media role? Maybe he'll just slip of the radar all together.

Oh, and I wasnt one of those who wanted him. I always prefered Craigy, with Rodney Eade my second choice.

Wow, you really know nothing about the Richmond FC and its circumstances of the last 7 or 8 years. Stick to talking about the Crows.

 

[tribey]

Wow, you really know nothing about the Richmond FC and its circumstances of the last 7 or 8 years. Stick to talking about the Crows.

It's funny isn't it.

Taking over a wooden spooner with a wasteland of a list (onya Spud!) is 'taking an average side with good upside to the bottom of the heap' these days.

 

[Alex99]

Yep. I was one of them.

It can turn around very quickly - a week ago Bomber Thompson looked set for the gallows, now he looks like a folk hero.

Form is fickle these days.

Anything less than a premiership for Geelong this year will see Mark Thompson become a dead man walking as Geelong senior coach.

 

[tribey]

Anything less than a premiership for Geelong this year will see Mark Thompson become a dead man walking as Geelong senior coach.

I dunno.

If he can get them to another Prelim - with the undoubted promise of Tomahawk becoming a colossus - and reinvent his sourpuss attitude he might be ok.

Neale Daniher on the other hand...

 

[bus24]

I think on matchday, he isn't really that bad. Perhaps better than NC in this regard.

I don't think he gets inside the heads of his players enough however. Mentally they seem very weak and the play group have little confidence in their ability to win.

The real problem for Richmond has been their horrible, horrible recruiting. Wallet has to take some heat for this, but it's hard to judge how much he had to do with it. They jokers around him were probably most at fault in this instance.

 

[Vader]

As I see it, Terry Wallet is close on being a tactical genius, but a strategic ignoramus.

When it comes to gameday tactics, he's one of the very best. If you want an example of his tactical nous, just look at what he did to us when we played them last year.

However, when it comes to taking the broader picture in mind - recruiting for the future needs of the club, he's terrible. At the draft table he's midfielder happy, seemingly refusing to draft talls - leaving his team(s) structurally deficient as a result.

When he took over Richmond 2 1/2 years ago, they were in a dire condition. So too were Hawthorn. The two of them played off late in the season for the Deledio Cup. Both clubs were full of hacks, with their only decent players being all aged 28+.

At the end of that season though, the two clubs went in very different directions.

Hawthorn went for a complete cleanout. They decided to start with a completely clean slate, trading or delisting every player who they decided would not be able to help them win a premiership. They retained just a small number of senior players, enough to support their youngsters while leaving plenty of positions available for them at selection each week. Since that time, Hawthorn have improved every year and now appear to be on the verge of a successful period as they reap what they sewed back in 2004 & 2005.

Richmond on the other hand tried to have their cake and eat it too. Yes, they drafted some quality youngsters in Deledio and Tambling (who was highly rated at the time, no matter how badly he has subsequently turned out), but they also took on a relatively large number of retreads (eg Mark Graham and Troy Simmonds). They tried to draft for the longer term future, while trading to improve their short-medium term future. They failed.

The decision to draft in re-treads saw their fortunes rise in 2005 & 2006, with them finishing above the Hawks in both years. However, it was a false dawn - mirroring Carlton's rise in 2004 and subsequent fall back to wooden spoondom in 2005 & 2006.

Now they find themselves in an even deeper predicament than the one in which they started. They do have a small handful of genuinely talented kids, but their senior players are all now either gone or very close to it and there is nothing but hacks in between. At least they may have had some trade-bait to offer back in 2004, now they have nothing left. They will have to rebuild the slow and hard way.

Is this all Terry Wallet's fault?

To answer that question, you would need to know the internal workings of the Richmond Football Club and in particular how much influence he has had on their recruiting over the past three years.

 

[tribey]

As I see it, Terry Wallet is close on being a tactical genius, but a strategic ignoramus.

When it comes to gameday tactics, he's one of the very best. If you want an example of his tactical nous, just look at what he did to us when we played them last year.

However, when it comes to taking the broader picture in mind - recruiting for the future needs of the club, he's terrible. At the draft table he's midfielder happy, seemingly refusing to draft talls - leaving his team(s) structurally deficient as a result.

When he took over Richmond 2 1/2 years ago, they were in a dire condition. So too were Hawthorn. The two of them played off late in the season for the Deledio Cup. Both clubs were full of hacks, with their only decent players being all aged 28+.

At the end of that season though, the two clubs went in very different directions.

Hawthorn went for a complete cleanout. They decided to start with a completely clean slate, trading or delisting every player who they decided would not be able to help them win a premiership. They retained just a small number of senior players, enough to support their youngsters while leaving plenty of positions available for them at selection each week. Since that time, Hawthorn have improved every year and now appear to be on the verge of a successful period as they reap what they sewed back in 2004 & 2005.

Richmond on the other hand tried to have their cake and eat it too. Yes, they drafted some quality youngsters in Deledio and Tambling (who was highly rated at the time, no matter how badly he has subsequently turned out), but they also took on a relatively large number of retreads (eg Mark Graham and Troy Simmonds). They tried to draft for the longer term future, while trading to improve their short-medium term future. They failed.

The decision to draft in re-treads saw their fortunes rise in 2005 & 2006, with them finishing above the Hawks in both years. However, it was a false dawn - mirroring Carlton's rise in 2004 and subsequent fall back to wooden spoondom in 2005 & 2006.

Now they find themselves in an even deeper predicament than the one in which they started. They do have a small handful of genuinely talented kids, but their senior players are all now either gone or very close to it and there is nothing but hacks in between. At least they may have had some trade-bait to offer back in 2004, now they have nothing left. They will have to rebuild the slow and hard way.

Is this all Terry Wallet's fault?

To answer that question, you would need to know the internal workings of the Richmond Football Club and in particular how much influence he has had on their recruiting over the past three years.

World class.

I reckon the undue influence of Greg Miller has been questionable.

As I've said elsewhere recently, he's been living off the Longmire-Carey coup of 1988 for ages now and he seems to have long since lost his touch in an era when players must be acquired with careful drafting and canny cap management, rather than just handing brown paper bags full of money around.

 

[Alex99]

The real problem for Richmond has been their horrible, horrible recruiting. Wallet has to take some heat for this, but it's hard to judge how much he had to do with it. They jokers around him were probably most at fault in this instance.

What, I don’t think I see it that way at all. Just look at the last 5 years who they have recruited and who is still on the list.

Patrick Bowden from the Western Bulldogs
Kane Johnson from us
Graham Polak from the Dockers
Nathan Brown from the Western Bulldogs
Troy Simmons from the Dockers
And Shane Tuck as a mature age recruits

That 6 first choice player, add to that the player they have drafted over that periods of time as well as any new draftee introduced into the system and they have a good squad of player.

Recruiting has not been the problem, IMO it’s just been horrible and freakish bad luck. Remember before Nathan Brown broke his leg they were flying and looking like a very good side.

Add a fit and firing Nathan Brown, Mark Coughlan and Troy Simmons and most would see a remarkable difference in form, plus Mathew Richardson would get a lot more of the ball and better delivery that wouldn’t hurt.

 

[rayven]

Everyones missing the obvious.

He's 50 games into his 110 game plan to turn the Richmond FC around.

Now forget whether you think 5 years to do it is a cop out or not but 50 games in he's started again.

Kevin Sheedy pointed out last year he didnt think some of Terry's tactics were a positive to teach young players about winning footy games.

Mr Sheedy is looking quite the visionary at this stage.

 

[tribey]

Kevin Sheedy pointed out last year he didnt think some of Terry's tactics were a positive to teach young players about winning footy games.

Mr Sheedy is looking quite the visionary at this stage.

Has plenty more runs on the board, but in other ways Sheedy can't talk.

His recent fetish for dud recycleds and mature-age recruits set Essendon back a good 2-3 years - Paul Salmon, Matthew Allan, Mark Alvey, Justin Murphy, Ty Zantuck, Paul Thomas, Chris Heffernan, Scott Camporeale.

He's switched tack and is now back to finding kids and voila, they're on the up again.

 

[jenny61_99]

I was never one in favour of Whats-his-face (WHF). The man is a media whore, and clearly "I" focussed. We needed someone who was TEAM oriented, and WHF wasn't. Pure and simple. Eade was my first choice with Craig being a close second. I was more than happy with the Club's decision and wanted to see what he had. So far I am most impressed with performances above and beyond initial expectations (although clearly disappointed that he couldn't take us all the way). Not sure Eade could have done any better.

Richmond FC has a habit of sacking coaches after 100+ point drubbings, however they have too much invested in WHF to dump him.... yet. However, if the team puts in a couple more performances like that, anything is possible.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Yep. I was one of them.

Given the circumstances back then I'm still happy with my reasoning too.
And that was?
If you were motivated to start this thread as a result of the shellacking on Sunday, tell me who was in charge of us when we were flogged by a record margin at the Gabba and then backed up the following week to go goalless in the first half against the Kangaroos.

Hes been there longer than Sunday

It can turn around very quickly - a week ago Bomber Thompson looked set for the gallows, now he looks like a folk hero.

Your dead right - and Thompson aint outta the woods yet

Form is fickle these days.

Couldn't muster a yelp at 'Dogland'?

What, took a side which had finished 15th to back to back Prelim finals (sound familiar?) with a top-4 ladder finish in 1999 and a further finals appearance in 2000?

Yep.... Im hard to please; but Im not happy about being a losing prelim finalist either

If that's not mustering a yelp I'd hate to see what he'd have accomplished had they managed so much as a muffled growl.


It would seem that way now, sure.

But let's see how Craig, Wallace and Eade have fared in 5 years.

see above

 

[sworc36]

I was never one in favour of Whats-his-face (WHF). The man is a media whore, and clearly "I" focussed. We needed someone who was TEAM oriented, and WHF wasn't. Pure and simple. Eade was my first choice with Craig being a close second. I was more than happy with the Club's decision and wanted to see what he had. So far I am most impressed with performances above and beyond initial expectations (although clearly disappointed that he couldn't take us all the way). Not sure Eade could have done any better.

Richmond FC has a habit of sacking coaches after 100+ point drubbings, however they have too much invested in WHF to dump him.... yet. However, if the team puts in a couple more performances like that, anything is possible.

What Jenny says but my first choice was NC. Wallace is a career coach where I felt NC,s heart and soul was with this club. I had also met NC previously once when I was doing the banner, Ayers was coach then and for some reason all the coaching staff came over to chat with the supporter group. Me being one not to get caught up in the hype carried on placing the letters when Neil came over, bent down and asked me questions about the banner. None of the other coaches really seemed to care. He is a great communicator and that is a great skill to have as a Modern day coach in the AFL. Ive heard numerous times from good sources that the players love playing for him. I know this is all done and dusted but I didnt blame the club at all for the process of hiring NC. They obviously knew he was the man for the job but had to advertise and interview just like any respectable business. Anyway thats all history now so lets not go back there.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Do you remember when there were quite a few people on this board DEMANDING for him to be appointed

Some would argue he doesnt have the cattle at Richmond but he did have some prized heiffers at dogland and couldnt muster a yelp.

Hindsights a beautiful thing, but Im sure the AFC made the right decision by appointing Craigy.

At the time I was hoping to get Eade over Craig. Craig has done much better than I had expected, but whose to say Eade wouldn't have done so well?

As for Richmond, Vader's comparison with the Hawks is spot on. They offloaded senior players who wouldn't be around for the next peremiership for early picks. I mean if they were able to get rid of Hay, surely the Tigers could have got good value for Gasper.

 

[King Elvis]

Neil Craig was the only choice to coach our players.

I always wanted Craigy as our Coach, but he's obviously exceeded almost all of our expectations.

 

[Viva la Mattner]

Neil Craig was the only choice to coach our players.

I always wanted Craigy as our Coach, but he's obviously exceeded almost all of our expectations.

yes he has, but now his training regime leaves abit to be desired.
all these "impact" injuries as he calls them are being caused in training, but what does he do to curb this problem?? NOTHING!!!!!!

 

[King Elvis]

yes he has, but now his training regime leaves abit to be desired.
all these "impact" injuries as he calls them are being caused in training, but what does he do to curb this problem?? NOTHING!!!!!!

Rubbish.

If it wasn't for Roo, Henstchel, Johncock, Reilly, Biglands and McGregor being injured, we wouldn't be too badly placed - and their injuries were either freakish or in play.

 

[Viva la Mattner]

Rubbish.

If it wasn't for Roo, Henstchel, Johncock, Reilly, Biglands and McGregor being injured, we wouldn't be too badly placed - and their injuries were either freakish or in play.

what about all the guys playing at 60 - 70% fitness like Burton and co. ???
the concerning thing is the amount of soft tissue injuries.

it happened towards the end of last year he trained the team into the ground and look at the outcome!
we limped into the finals and played the most important game of the year with 3 of our most key players underdone badly

 

[tribey]

And that was?

Unlike the post-Craig sign-ups you were here during the 'process'.

No need to rehash old ground, there's plenty of threads where I gave my views at the time on Craig, Eade and Wallace.

Hes been there longer than Sunday

Certainly has.

Took the 2004 Wooden Spooner to 10 and 11 wins in his first two seasons.

This season the side has struggled to date, no doubt. But just like Pagan who had an immediate improvement at Carlton before more spoonage, I reckon he's the victim of his own early success at the moment.

Yep.... Im hard to please; but Im not happy about being a losing prelim finalist either

I just find it a pretty big contradiction that you're pointing to Craig's record to date as justification that we unequivocally made the right choice, but by the same token you're calling Wallace's arguably superior record at the Dogs "not raising a yelp".

Completely illogical.