Ottens

[tribey]

Originally posted by DaveW
I don't think Richmond would be thinking about "cutting their losses" on Aaron Fiora.

Depends. That #3 pick they wasted on him all those years ago means 110% bugger all now.

If there's to be a cleanout at the end of the year I'm not sure Aaron would've done enough to survive a cull - especially as he hails from South Australia originally. If they were to start afresh down at Punt Rd I reckon they'd bite our hand off if we offered them a second round pick.

He might finally fire with that old cliche - a change of scenery.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Just because a player was a top 10 pick in the past means bugger all at present. We gave up second round pick for Ryan Fitzgerald who was pick 4 and Andrew Eccles for Kris Massie who was pick 7.

Fiora has had 4-5 years at this level to prove himself but he has failed. Every year he teases everyone at punt road with his performances. I reckon Richmond would jump at 2nd round pick especially if its an early 2nd round pick.

Ottens would be a different story. Players of his size and ability don't grow on trees. They would be driving a hard bargain for him.

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Just because a player was a top 10 pick in the past means bugger all at present. We gave up second round pick for Ryan Fitzgerald who was pick 4 and Andrew Eccles for Kris Massie who was pick 7.

Yeah under that logic we should be certainties to recruit both Hird and Goodes in return for magic beans - such lowly draft dregs they both were!

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Ottens would be a different story. Players of his size and ability don't grow on trees. They would be driving a hard bargain for him.

Yeah alright, true enough - I guess I just have faith in karma giving us one in return after we blew all those high picks on Carey, Clarke, Angwin...

C'est la vie...

 

[DaveW]

I never said Fiora would be worth a no.3 pick, just that the Tigers would be wary of giving him away on the cheap after paying so much for him.

We all know why we got Fitzgerald for a second rounder; injuries, injuries and more injuries.

As for Massie. He was a bargain. And that trade should serve as a lesson not to give up too easily on highly rated youngsters.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by DaveW
As for Massie. He was a bargain. And that trade should serve as a lesson not to give up too easily on highly rated youngsters.

Yeah but we are talking Richmond here

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by DaveW
I never said Fiora would be worth a no.3 pick, just that the Tigers would be wary of giving him away on the cheap after paying so much for him.

It's not as if he was drafted last week... how long ago was he picked up? 1998?

Surely there's a statute of limitations and the Tigers know that on current form and maximum potential they'd struggle to get better than a Bode/Kingsley/J. Murphy in return or a second round pick.

 

[Stiffy_18]

What should Adelaide's Shopping list look like at the end of the year (in order. NOTE: Its impossible to get all players)

#1 Mark Seaby (West Coast: ruckman/forward - higly unlikely)
#2 Brian Harris (Westen Bulldogs: FB. the bloke is a tank and is developing very nicely)
#3 Byron Schammer (Fremantle: Classy onballer with pace and skill)
#4 Daniel Bell (Melbourne: Utility with genuine pace)
#5 Cameron Faulkner (Western Bulldogs: Pacy onballer, higly rated by Crows)
#6 Brad Ottens

 

[spindoctor]

We have no chance of Brian Harris, he has been pencilled in as WB fullback, and given how much they need talls, he is going nowhere.

However Bassett in a package deal that gets us Faulkner would please me, but I have a feeling WB will not be keen on giving him up, given the murmurs of 'next McLeod' placed on him.

Schammer is out of the question. First he is an arrogant little prick, second he is clearly rapt with Freo.

Don't know about Bell.

Mark Seaby is no chance...with Gardiner's continual problems, he is a lock-in on the list.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
What should Adelaide's Shopping list look like at the end of the year (in order. NOTE: Its impossible to get all players)

#1 Mark Seaby (West Coast: ruckman/forward - higly unlikely)
#2 Brian Harris (Westen Bulldogs: FB. the bloke is a tank and is developing very nicely)
#3 Byron Schammer (Fremantle: Classy onballer with pace and skill)
#4 Daniel Bell (Melbourne: Utility with genuine pace)
#5 Cameron Faulkner (Western Bulldogs: Pacy onballer, higly rated by Crows)
#6 Brad Ottens

Have to agree with spinny here, Harris and Seaby are written in ink on their respective club's lists. No way would they do a trade for these 2.

Schammer's not worth chasing IMO, although he plays okay.

Also I don't know virtually anything about Bell.

No problems about chasing Cam Faulkner but very unlikely to happen.

Dyertribe's offer for Ottens and Fiora was a bit light on, but not as light as some have suggested. I don't care if Fiora was pick 3 or a 100, he's just a player at very best. No genuine courage and not an impact player's bootlace. I wouldn't give up a 2nd round draft pick for him on a one off basis. No way!!! 3rd round at best.

As for Ottens, we are talking about the mediocre standard he has settled at with Richmond, not what he should be doing or could be doing elsewhere. Talk of a 1st and 2nd round draft pick is typical of the hallucinations from within the Richmond footy club that there are no major problems there. They need a massive shake-up which means a change of coach and players who think that mediocrity is acceptable.

Dyertribe's suggestion of Reilly for Ottens might be light on but if it were Reilly and second round draft pick for Ottens then that's a high price. He isn't too far off the mark.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I reckon someone from here rang 5AA this morning asking th epanel what they think would Ottens be worth in terms of trade value. Everyone (Cornes, KG, Ebert and Rucci) said that all things being equal top 10 pick is a fair trade.

The only question they have raised is if his back is up to it after he had that surgery last year. He is 24 and in their mind is worth a top 10 pick and all of them would give it up without second thought.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I reckon someone from here rang 5AA this morning asking th epanel what they think would Ottens be worth in terms of trade value. Everyone (Cornes, KG, Ebert and Rucci) said that all things being equal top 10 pick is a fair trade.

The only question they have raised is if his back is up to it after he had that surgery last year. He is 24 and in their mind is worth a top 10 pick and all of them would give it up without second thought.

I heard that too Stiffy, and immediately wondered if it was someone from this Board.

They did all agree that a 1st round pick, but not a top 5, was fair for Ottens and that if available Adelaide should do that deal, subject to whether his back was sound.

I still wouldn't give you more than a 3rd rounder for Fiora though -light on courage, light on impact.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by macca23
I heard that too Stiffy, and immediately wondered if it was someone from this Board.

They did all agree that a 1st round pick, but not a top 5, was fair for Ottens and that if available Adelaide should do that deal, subject to whether his back was sound.

I still wouldn't give you more than a 3rd rounder for Fiora though -light on courage, light on impact.

Fiora is not worth more than a 3rd rounder.

It will be interesting to follow the "Ottens Story" as the year progresses. Ruckman who can play KP especially up forward are bloody hard to find and as such will demand a fair compensation.

It will be interesting to see how that scenario unfolds come trade week.

 

[spindoctor]

Reilly and a second-round pick for Ottens is still stretching it.

Reilly has shown precious little in his three years, looks to be just an average midfielder who will be solid but not great - not worth anything more than a second-round pick at best. So two second-round picks for Ottens? Probably not.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Plus I don't think he would want to go to Sth Aust anyway?

Correct, Ottens apparantly sees Melbourne as home, not Adelaide.

 

[Supertiger]

None of you guys seriously believe that Terry Wallace or Rod Eade are going to give you Brad Ottens for a 2nd round pick and a lowly player.

At 24 years of age probably another 200 games of league footy in his body and a bloke at 198cm and his ability you have no hope of such a deal. Those types of blokes dont grow on trees...

Adelaide coughed up 2 early picks for carey...your not gonna get Ottens for less than 2 early picks! Absolutely guaranteed!

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Supertiger
None of you guys seriously believe that Terry Wallace or Rod Eade are going to give you Brad Ottens for a 2nd round pick and a lowly player.

At 24 years of age probably another 200 games of league footy in his body and a bloke at 198cm and his ability you have no hope of such a deal. Those types of blokes dont grow on trees...

Adelaide coughed up 2 early picks for carey...your not gonna get Ottens for less than 2 early picks! Absolutely guaranteed!

I don't think Terry wallace would touch Richmond with a 10 foot pole. He has publicly stated that he will only go to a club where he can see himself winning a premiership in a space of 3 years (read St. Kilda).

I am pretty sure that Eade will look for better options and would only pick Richmond if there are no better options available.

We will have to give a lot more than a 2nd round pick. Top 10 pick is probably what he is worth. You seem to be forgetting that Ottens is coming out of a contract at the end of the year and if he is set on leaving Richmond there is not much you can do to stop him. I am not suggesting that SA sides are his only options. I am pretty sure 15 other clubs would be very interested in him.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I don't think Terry wallace would touch Richmond with a 10 foot pole. He has publicly stated that he will only go to a club where he can see himself winning a premiership in a space of 3 years (read St. Kilda).

I am pretty sure that Eade will look for better options and would only pick Richmond if there are no better options available.

We will have to give a lot more than a 2nd round pick. Top 10 pick is probably what he is worth. You seem to be forgetting that Ottens is coming out of a contract at the end of the year and if he is set on leaving Richmond there is not much you can do to stop him. I am not suggesting that SA sides are his only options. I am pretty sure 15 other clubs would be very interested in him.

You listen to Wallace in the Melbourne media, at the moment. and he is sounding like the Richmond coach in waiting.
Realistically that's where I think he will end up.
A new coach, and it probably would pursuade Ottens to stay, if he leaves it would be for another Melbourne club.
Talk about what he is worth draft pick wise, is wasted breath. The market determines his value, not Richmond, and his value to the other Vic teams will be extremely high(if it comes down to it) - top 10 pick +player or 2nd/3rd round draft pick, depending on the draft selection in the first round.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
You listen to Wallace in the Melbourne media, at the moment. and he is sounding like the Richmond coach in waiting.
Realistically that's where I think he will end up.
A new coach, and it probably would pursuade Ottens to stay, if he leaves it would be for another Melbourne club.
Talk about what he is worth draft pick wise, is wasted breath. The market determines his value, not Richmond, and his value to the other Vic teams will be extremely high(if it comes down to it) - top 10 pick +player or 2nd/3rd round draft pick, depending on the draft selection in the first round.

He has been having a fair go at Richmond thats for sure. However, I doubt whether he will accept to coach Richmond.

Would you give Biglands and a pcik for Ottens??????

Speaking of coaches, Michaelangelo Rucci raised a very interesting question in the tiser today regarding Ayres. Its obvious that he has put AFC in front of himself and is prepared to play youngsters for the future benefit of the footy club regardless of the fact whether or not he will be around next year. Rucci said that Ayres has started the job but is he the right man to finish it?????? He also "compared" current situation to that with Shaw when he gave th elikes of McLeod, Edwards, Vardy and a couple of others 10-30 AFL games and it was Blighty who finished the job.

I was wondering what are your thoughts on this??????

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Supertiger
None of you guys seriously believe that Terry Wallace or Rod Eade are going to give you Brad Ottens for a 2nd round pick and a lowly player.

At 24 years of age probably another 200 games of league footy in his body and a bloke at 198cm and his ability you have no hope of such a deal. Those types of blokes dont grow on trees...

No but they might swing from them!!

Whoa, only joking!!

I still think you're valuing Ottens on what he might be rather than what he is. It's been a long time since Ottens has produced what he's capable of - he's got quite a few mates there too.

The other aspect when valuing Ottens is his back. He had some problems with it. How is it at the moment??

When you dismiss Reilly as a lowly player, he was taken at #12 in the draft and has excellent pace, balance and skills. The hard yards have been done with him and he's ready to play. Reilly and a 2nd round draft pick is the equivalent of a 1st and 2nd round draft pick and I doubt that Ottens is worth that on his current form. In fact, there is talk of him being dropped this week.

As for what we gave for Carey, that won't happen again - we got r*ped and pillaged on that one.

Finally, just on your new coach - Eade would have to be the favourite wouldn't he?? Wallace has made it very clear that Richmond is a no-no for him.

 

[Portia]

In my opinion you're better off keeping all of your picks unless another club comes to you with a good deal (not vice versa), and possibly trade a senior player or two away for additional decent draft picks.

This is apparently shaping as a good draft for key position players and ruckmen, so why trade away for the likes of Ottens who will probably have maybe five more good years of football left? Yes, this doesn't sound like much, but he's been injury plagued all of his career, which should shorten it somewhat.

Invest in the draft, not in damaged goods from Richmond.

Of course, poaching some SA-developed depth from Melbourne and the Dogs might not be a bad idea.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Porthos
Of course, poaching some SA-developed depth from Melbourne and the Dogs might not be a bad idea.

Now you're talking. Brian Harris anyone??????

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Porthos
In my opinion you're better off keeping all of your picks unless another club comes to you with a good deal (not vice versa), and possibly trade a senior player or two away for additional decent draft picks.

This is apparently shaping as a good draft for key position players and ruckmen, so why trade away for the likes of Ottens who will probably have maybe five more good years of football left? Yes, this doesn't sound like much, but he's been injury plagued all of his career, which should shorten it somewhat.

Invest in the draft, not in damaged goods from Richmond.

Of course, poaching some SA-developed depth from Melbourne and the Dogs might not be a bad idea.

Excellent post Porthos, and unless an Ottens came at fair value, not worth pursuing.

That suggestion of poaching SA-developed talent from Melbourne and the Doggies is also a good one. A few good boys worth angling for there, and they haven't been contaminated by what appears to be the slip-shod culture of Richmond.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Porthos
In my opinion you're better off keeping all of your picks unless another club comes to you with a good deal (not vice versa), and possibly trade a senior player or two away for additional decent draft picks.

You make a very valid point. As an outsider who do you think are the players that that should be traded for draft picks??????

 

[Portia]

I dunno, but any premiership players you still have will command a better trade value than they probably should. Goodwin and McLeod would be high on the list, but you wouldn't want to gut your midfield unless you had some decent backups, although those backups could be the result of other deals.

I'm not going to claim to be an expert on the Crows list, but look for where you have depth, then look at the top of that depth list and see if they a) are players with trade value and b) replaceable. If so, trade & replace them.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Porthos
I'm not going to claim to be an expert on the Crows list, but look for where you have depth, then look at the top of that depth list and see if they a) are players with trade value and b) replaceable. If so, trade & replace them.

There are plenty of players that are tradeable BUT a lot of them don't have a trade value that will get you a top 10 pick or a 1st round pick for that matter.

We are thin in a lot of areas

I say its time to raid the Doggies for Faulkner, Harris and maybe McMahon and Demons for Bell and Smith