Ottens

[Stiffy_18]

I think everyone agrees that Biglands is not going to become a star he will always just be an average player.
I didnt want, or even think of trading Biglands until Craig come up with the idea of playing him up forward, I think its a waste.
He will just crowd the forward line, we saw how unproductive Welsh was when Carey was there. Carey had a pretty good idea of how to play up forward too, however Biglands is clueless up forward.
Sure, Biglands brings some grunt and agression but from what we saw this year I think he should put that back in bag as we do not need to have a player suspended for 6+ games.
With the way the game is being played and ruled these days a superstar ruckman is not needed, you just need someone who can jump, tap and take a few grabs here or there, Biglands is not this, I have stated earlier I do not want to trade him just for trading sake but if we can get a good deal out of it why not, if we are just going to break even obviously dont bother.
I think Clarke and Hudson can do the job next year, and if we can pick up another tall who can have a season playing SANFL and then come in and play in 2007 then we have done alright.
I would not knock back having pick 8, possibly WCE 12, Richmonds 21 and our 24 its a good start....just an idea!

Funny how a lot of people point out this year as Biglands being undisciplined but they conviniently forget to mention that throughout all grades of football including Junior this year has been the first time Biglands was suspended and the first time he even got reported.

Also, Biglands playing in the FP didn't seem to dictract Scott Welsh later in the season. People think that Craig will turn Biglands into a full time forward which couldn't be firther away from the truth. What Craig wants is to have 2 ruckman that can rotate through the ruck and forward pocket instead of bencing them. Now whether or not you trad Biglands is irrelevant in the bigger picture because if Biglands is not standing in the FP then you can expect to see Clarke there.

Furthermore, Clarke has one year MAX left in him and after that (2006) you are left with Hudson as your #1 ruckman and nothing else. Young ruckman take a LOT longer to develop. No one in their right mind can expect to draft a rookie ruckman this year and expect him to play in 2006 or 2007. Ruckman generally take 3-5 years until they can start playing AFL footy.

There is no way I would trade Biglands unless I am getting a better ruckman in return. All I can say is I am glad some of the posters here are not in charge of trading at teh club. People are REALLY over-reacting

 

[mymansyd]

There is no way I would trade Biglands unless I am getting a better ruckman in return. All I can say is I am glad some of the posters here are not in charge of trading at teh club. People are REALLY over-reacting

I am definitely an anti-Biglands advocate. The bigfella is 28 next year and still hasn't reached the potential he's - at certain times - threatened to reach. A very frustrating player, if ever there was one. But I accept your point of view on this one Stiffy. If we get rid of the Dirty-Dancer and Clarke retires at the end of 2005, we are in a rucking ********-spot. Crows definitely need to tread carefully with regards to the rucking department. Their moves in this area will be vey closely watched.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I can't say I am disappointed. Turns our attention to youth

Ottens quits Richmond, eyes Cats

By Jake Niall, Lyall Johnson
September 25, 2004

Brad Ottens yesterday told Richmond of his decision to quit the club, and nominated Geelong as his preferred destination.

The uncontracted ruckman-forward met Richmond football director Greg Miller and told him he wanted to leave the Tigers. He confirmed through his management that he wanted to be traded to Geelong, which has beaten Sydney to be his favoured destination.

"Geelong are his preferred option, but obviously on the understanding, providing they're able to compensate Richmond appropriately," said Ottens' manager Dan Richardson, whose Elite Sports Properties issued a statement in which Ottens said he was leaving for "football" rather than financial reasons.

Miller said the Tigers were "genuinely disappointed" with Ottens' decision to leave, and vowed that any team that wanted him would have to pay heavily.

"Brad was our No.1 pick (No. 2 overall) in the 1997 national AFL draft and since then we've spent considerable time and money in nurturing his talent, to a point where he's ready to produce his best football over the next few seasons," Miller said. "Whichever club reaps the reward of our efforts will pay handsomely for that right. Brad is the hottest trade choice that I can ever remember in league football. We're talking about a ruckman-forward who has played more than 120 games, was an All-Australian representative in 2001, and is still only 24 years of age."


The former South Australian is believed to have chosen Geelong ahead of Sydney - subject to a trade - because of his preference to remain in Victoria, where his mother and brother Luke now live.

He is seeking at least three years on his new contract and is certain to command at least $400,000 from Geelong, which would not pay him as much as the Swans.

In the statement, Ottens cited his wish for a "new environment" as paramount. "I need a new environment to get the best out of myself and enjoy my football," he said.

Miller said Richmond, which has selections one, four and 20 in the national draft, would be looking for more early draft choices as well as a ready-made big man to trade in order to fill the void left by Ottens.

Miller said the Tigers also reserved the right to re-sign Ottens or take him in the pre-season draft should a "suitable offer" not be forthcoming.

Geelong coach Mark Thompson said last night it was too early to discuss who might be on the list of trade possibilities for Ottens, but said he felt the former All-Australian would be worth a "first-round draft choice and a decent player".

Ottens, who is leaving for Thailand tomorrow, also alluded to the substantial pay cut the Tigers had requested he take from his 2004 contract. In the statement, his management company said Ottens had been willing to accept a reduction, but the proposed cut was "above what he thought reasonable and indicated the club had lost faith in him".

Richmond has launched a bid for Fremantle's uncontracted ruckman-forward Troy Simmonds.

 

[londontiger]

Stiffy, Reid was quoted in the Hun today that you guys will have a sniff around Otto.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Stiffy, Reid was quoted in the Hun today that you guys will have a sniff around Otto.

I wouldn't have expected anything less. We were always going to ask the question but I doubt we would get into the bidding war with other clubs. We don't have a history of overpaying for players and I can't see Reid offering Brad $500K unless he nominated for the pre-season draft where we would probably overpay him so we can get him for nothing in terms of trade currency.

From that article it sounds like Brad has alreay made up his mind but you are right plenty of time until the trade week. A lot of water to go under the bridge.

 

[spindoctor]

I wouldn't have expected anything less. We were always going to ask the question but I doubt we would get into the bidding war with other clubs. We don't have a history of overpaying for players and I can't see Reid offering Brad $500K unless he nominated for the pre-season draft where we would probably overpay him so we can get him for nothing in terms of trade currency.

From that article it sounds like Brad has alreay made up his mind but you are right plenty of time until the trade week. A lot of water to go under the bridge.

I would rather Simmonds, actually. More safe in terms of injuries and was bloody good in the ruck when he played there full-time for Freo.

We could get him far cheaper than the likes of Ottens. Even Cox would be cheaper, and he is my most preferred option.

I still hold to a faint hope WCE will crumble and trade us Cox, given they have Gardiner, Seaby, Beeck, Johnson etc on their list.

 

[Asgardian]

A couple of points if I may

If Ottens went into the Pre-Season Draft, Richmond, which has first pick, have already said they'd re-draft Ottens.

Maybe a bluff, maybe not?

I reckon capable ruckmen are available at cheaper prices anyway

Secondly, Stiffy_18 wrote saying that Clarke will spend time as a forward pocket, my question is why would the Crows bother even trying that?
We all know that Clarke has more trouble taking overhead marks, than I do in picking up space shuttle tickets. He's a tap ruckman, he certainly isn't a threat when the ball is on the ground, so why experiment with a proven 30 odd year old player?

Biglands discipline issues are more that he didn't learn from his first indiscretion, maybe he now knows? we'll find that out in 2005

 

[spindoctor]

A couple of points if I may

If Ottens went into the Pre-Season Draft, Richmond, which has first pick, have already said they'd re-draft Ottens.

Maybe a bluff, maybe not?

I reckon capable ruckmen are available at cheaper prices anyway

Secondly, Stiffy_18 wrote saying that Clarke will spend time as a forward pocket, my question is why would the Crows bother even trying that?
We all know that Clarke has more trouble taking overhead marks, than I do in picking up space shuttle tickets. He's a tap ruckman, he certainly isn't a threat when the ball is on the ground, so why experiment with a proven 30 odd year old player?

Biglands discipline issues are more that he didn't learn from his first indiscretion, maybe he now knows? we'll find that out in 2005

Funny thing is, when he actually applies himself, Clarke can take a reasonable mark. It just seems most of the time he gives up before even trying. He occasionally takes some rippers. I don't know why he hasn't been worked with more.

 

[ottenz]

I won't be and we shouldn't make a "huge" play for him. Ottens worth should be around $375,000 IMHO. He peaked in 2001, when he was brilliant and an All-Australian, but he's slipped back a few notches over the last 3 years. He's apparently asking for around half-a-mill per season. Ouch and no thanks. Good luck to Cats and Swans if that is the case. I hope for their sake his body holds up.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind him at the Crows, but not for half-a-mill and not for what we may have to give up for him.

good post he's fraud he will screw you guys over as did us.

 

[- PC -]

I would rather Simmonds, actually. More safe in terms of injuries and was bloody good in the ruck when he played there full-time for Freo.

We could get him far cheaper than the likes of Ottens. Even Cox would be cheaper, and he is my most preferred option.

I still hold to a faint hope WCE will crumble and trade us Cox, given they have Gardiner, Seaby, Beeck, Johnson etc on their list.

And this from the Freo board

There's no way that Freo will be wanting a 1st round draft pick that's not a Top 5 pick, we have enough youth with Murphy, Dunn, Campbell, Mundy et al, so I'm 100% positive Freo wouldn't trade Simmonds for a draft pick.

We'd want someone good in return, Simmonds is a special talent in the ruck, & would get better playing in that possie, unfortunately for us, JLO just didn't cut it, as a FF, & we had to try Simmonds there. Now JLO is our #1 choice in the ruck after an outstanding 2nd half to the year, & Simmonds is on the outer.

If Freo do get rid of Simmonds, I'd hope it would end up getting us a Josh Carr, a Jason Saddington, a Daniel Kerr or a Tyson Stenglein in the end.

Fingers x'ed

Living in perth I have seen a little more of Simmonds than Ottens( Then again so has everyone ) I rate him and he is cheap...cheaper than Ottens and he HAS played. I dont wont Adelaide to get into the kind of bidding war we had with Carey. I rated Carey but not at $$$ we paid him...sometimes a hungry person works harder than a well fed one.

I agree our talls need looking after as well as our midfielders ...at the end of the day Stenglein has said WC is his preferred option but if you can trade with Freo then at least he is in his home state. Let Freo and WC worry about on-trading him.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

No - Ackland is a dud. For the reasonably minded on here, about the same as Marsh.

Andrews will not solve the Crows current ruck woes any time soon, if at all.
Played a significant portion of the year in the twos at Glenelg and certainly didn't dominate when he did come up to the league.

Cheers..

 

[Stiffy_18]

A couple of points if I may

If Ottens went into the Pre-Season Draft, Richmond, which has first pick, have already said they'd re-draft Ottens.

Maybe a bluff, maybe not?

I reckon capable ruckmen are available at cheaper prices anyway

Secondly, Stiffy_18 wrote saying that Clarke will spend time as a forward pocket, my question is why would the Crows bother even trying that?
We all know that Clarke has more trouble taking overhead marks, than I do in picking up space shuttle tickets. He's a tap ruckman, he certainly isn't a threat when the ball is on the ground, so why experiment with a proven 30 odd year old player?

Biglands discipline issues are more that he didn't learn from his first indiscretion, maybe he now knows? we'll find that out in 2005

I don't agree with playing Clarke out of the pocket BUT it has become increasingly obvious that Craig wants to keep his ruckman on the field rather than have them on and off the bench. What we have done in Craigs time as a coach is rotate Clarke and Biglands through ruck and FP rather than taking them off. I don't see this changing next year.

Personally, I would have preferred if Clarke retired but he decided to play on so hopefully he can run out the year unlike Nigel Smart this year.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I don't agree with playing Clarke out of the pocket BUT it has become increasingly obvious that Craig wants to keep his ruckman on the field rather than have them on and off the bench. What we have done in Craigs time as a coach is rotate Clarke and Biglands through ruck and FP rather than taking them off. I don't see this changing next year.

Personally, I would have preferred if Clarke retired but he decided to play on so hopefully he can run out the year unlike Nigel Smart this year.

Clarke IMO will do OK as a forward pocket where his #1 job will be to take marks and not ruckwork. Is a better mark than Biglands and could be a success.

No player who is capable of still playing good football at AFL level should be forced to retire, no matter the rationale.

 

[Mego Red]

At the end of the day, I suppose this is a simple dilemma.

Will we have to pay Ottens more money than anyone else? Who cares. We have it - so spend it. That's not even part of the question.

Will we have to give up a piece that we need in order to get him? THIS is the question. Can't we buy a second hand grandstrand from Punt Road* or something similar? Instead of trading something we need? Can't we get Ottens as part of a trade that includes Penny Hardaway?** I'd rather give money than players - why can't we be the Yankees?



* Yes, I mean bribe them.
** Yes, this is a slightly obscure reference to trading for NBA cap relief.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Ottens was always going to come at too higer trade cost for us, unless we managed to some how get him through the PSD. He has confirmed what most of us thought in that he would prefer to stay in Melbourne/Victoria.

I still think it would be worth trading for another ruckman like a Simmonds & trading away Biglands. Perhaps the Tigers could be interested as a replacement for Ottens.