Our development program

[AmellyPies]

Buckley tenure started with Leading Teams. So we should see the first results of that coming through this year ? Apart from delisting/trading those who didn't bought into that. Can we see Adams as a direct result of that development program?

One of the reasons Beams left. He didn't like Leading Teams. Just shows you how immature he is. Adams has been awesome with his leadership and footy.

 

[Scodog10]

Despite being a watered down version of what takes place and only commenting on the black and white, therefore glossing over the grey, it was a very good article. Thanks for sharing Vicky!

For completeness though it might have added to the article to touch on how guys like Seedsman, Freeman and Kennedy can fall through the cracks within that 4 or so year window of walking through the door.

 

[Vicky Park]

For completeness though it might have added to the article to touch on how guys like Seedsman, Freeman and Kennedy can fall through the cracks within that 4 or so year window of walking through the door.

Also provides insight into why the club was perpetually frustrated with Karnezis. Performance aside, he might not have been the type who was comfortable with a tightly structured program. It doesn't suit everyone. Probably wouldn't have worked with Swanny in his early years either, if at all!

Also begs the question - what happens when a really good footballer doesn't thrive under such a structure, and is forced to conform. Do they go? Did that happen with Beamer? Is the program flexible enough to cope? The article does emphasise that each player has a tailored program, to suit their personality, level of maturity, etc.

 

[TradeDraft]

How good is Emma...pure quality

One of the Best Jurno's going Around

 

[PicaBoo]

Despite being a watered down version of what takes place and only commenting on the black and white, therefore glossing over the grey, it was a very good article. Thanks for sharing Vicky!

For completeness though it might have added to the article to touch on how guys like Seedsman, Freeman and Kennedy can fall through the cracks within that 4 or so year window of walking through the door.

They fell through the crack because they couldn't make the step to get across the crevice Not everyone wants to get the best out of himself or others. Not sure about Kennedy but the first 2 certainly didn't fit the required mentality.

 

[TradeDraft]

How do posters think guys like Thomas, Shaw & Beams would have liked this little tidbit ? Wouldn't have been fond of youngsters driving standards and being called out for it when they don't, especially Shaw.

YEAR FOUR

* Drive standards in a way that influences not only younger players, but the entire list. Be the group's "centre of influence" and hold others accountable.
* Become even more of a director on the training track and able to make demands of both younger and older players.

It's a PLAYER driven culture. Players are accountable to their teammates. Players call each other out. Some players of the past just didn't like it and blamed the coach, instead of the playing group that now had a voice.

And The New Boys Love this Style

 

[Bard]

Also provides insight into why the club was perpetually frustrated with Karnezis. Performance aside, he might not have been the type who was comfortable with a tightly structured program. It doesn't suit everyone. Probably wouldn't have worked with Swanny in his early years either, if at all!

Also begs the question - what happens when a really good footballer doesn't thrive under such a structure, and is forced to conform. Do they go? Did that happen with Beamer? Is the program flexible enough to cope? The article does emphasise that each player has a tailored program, to suit their personality, level of maturity, etc.

I think so, and I think this kind of program will begin to be implemented in all clubs if it's not already there as it outlines the essential foundations of what it means to be a professional athlete. If these players end up walking out the door it will be out of the AFL and not to another club within a few years.

 

[Scodog10]

They fell through the crack because they couldn't make the step to get across the crevice Not everyone wants to get the best out of himself or others. Not sure about Kennedy but the first 2 certainly didn't fit the required mentality.

They all made it to other clubs so it isn't an issue of being able to make it. The question might have been why didn't they make it here? From there what can we do things moving forward to help a player with similar traits increase their likelihood of making it.

Seeing the article delve into that side of things would have been the finishing touch, IMO.

 

[1892]

They all made it to other clubs so it isn't an issue of being able to make it. The question might have been why didn't they make it here? From there what can we do things moving forward to help a player with similar traits increase their likelihood of making it.

Seeing the article delve into that side of things would have been the finishing touch, IMO.

Would be an interesting angle. Without being on the inside I'd assume there's only so much the club can do, maybe we instead get better at identifying those who fit our system?

 

[PicaBoo]

They all made it to other clubs so it isn't an issue of being able to make it. The question might have been why didn't they make it here? From there what can we do things moving forward to help a player with similar traits increase their likelihood of making it.

Seeing the article delve into that side of things would have been the finishing touch, IMO.

Semantics I know but they have made it TO other clubs, not AT other clubs.
Why they didn't make it at our club, could either be mindset or skillset. That can only be established in a few years if they have the future we envisaged them.

 

[good4footy]

If you can't make it within such an environment then you get pushed out the door, not fall through the cracks.

Most of us would forgo our first born (sorry Grace) to be given an opportunity and also afforded such a workplace of growth. Players either take that on board or go elsewhere / drop out of the system.

 

[Dynamics]

No doubt they recruit with the Leading Teams program in mind and would look for indicators of a recruit's ability to thrive or struggle within it. Someone like Heater probably wouldn't have even been recruited, given that he was already a bit of a roughy at the time.

I'd be interested to know how committed the club is to this model. As in, if Bucks was no longer the coach would they require that the new senior coach be an advocate of leading teams etc.? It would be pretty disruptive for a second, third or even fourth year player who has completely bought into the system in the way that, for example, Adams has, to then have a new coach say "Well, that sounds nice but we're not doing that any more." I know it's happened in one way or another at other clubs.

 

[Scodog10]

Would be an interesting angle. Without being on the inside I'd assume there's only so much the club can do, maybe we instead get better at identifying those who fit our system?

That's another question that could be in there in reality, but wasn't covered in the article. The other element to this is the amount of control Emma had over the content.

 

[TradeDraft]

 

[Robroy22]

Funny how a positive article like this can only muster 2 pages of supportive response from the BF faithful but if a sleazy journo sets a barb about "Bucks tenure" or "Swanny's latest blooper" or a "Freeman" type leaving the club and we go into meltdown. Sorta shows me why lots of people get on here!

Loved the article btw Emma....its always nice to get a closer look inside a club than traditional journalism ever looks.

 

[PicaBoo]

Funny how a positive article like this can only muster 2 pages of supportive response from the BF faithful but if a sleazy journo sets a barb about "Bucks tenure" or "Swanny's latest blooper" or a "Freeman" type leaving the club and we go into meltdown. Sorta shows me why lots of people get on here!

Loved the article btw Emma....its always nice to get a closer look inside a club than traditional journalism ever looks.

Parttially agree. The program is very interesting . It sheds a new light on the club expectations of the new comers. Only scratches the surface though and there are questions we won't get answers to. The positive effects are only starting to show however the obvious negative effects of those that couldn't cope / adjust, have been dealt with extensively. So the room for discussion is very limited as it is very diverse , player specific and for most of us player development is way beyond our expertise.
Scodog10 mentioned a few names that seemed candidates to fail.
But there are more for instance TheBigShow aka Brendan Abbott . Since he left, he is discovering life, and quite a few kg , according to Instagram. Knowing his background, (how ) would that Leading Teams work program for him? And don't we want too many players to act like a leader?

 

[Scodog10]

Funny how a positive article like this can only muster 2 pages of supportive response from the BF faithful but if a sleazy journo sets a barb about "Bucks tenure" or "Swanny's latest blooper" or a "Freeman" type leaving the club and we go into meltdown. Sorta shows me why lots of people get on here!

Loved the article btw Emma....its always nice to get a closer look inside a club than traditional journalism ever looks.

It's been like that forever on BF. I've been posting on here approaching 8 years and the quietest season on here was clearly 2011. Positivity for whatever reason just doesn't generate the same level of interest.

 

[Ketchup]

One of the Best Jurno's going Around

Hopefully she can get out of that sinking ship of a newspaper she writes for

 

[TradeDraft]

It's been like that forever on BF. I've been posting on here approaching 8 years and the quietest season on here was clearly 2011. Positivity for whatever reason just doesn't generate the same level of interest.

And Winning Games makes the Forum lot Quieter

 

[Scodog10]

And Winning Games makes the Forum lot Quieter

It honestly does. Posters are less prepared to offer criticism because what's the point? You see the attitudes of some towards that stuff when we're average so can you imagine the attitudes if we were flying. Therefore being successful automatically removes at least 20-30% of potential discussions.

In terms of these sorts of articles I think discussion is limited primarily because most posters don't know this stuff deeply enough to do anything more than scratch the surface. Whereas a topic like Freeman departing is more of a free for all...

Further to the article if we look at what is expected of the players entering their fourth year perhaps we could look at promoting a youth leadership position amongst the leadership group to provide a voice for those in the 1-4 year bracket. It appears that so much of what goes on internally now is player driven yet Adams aside the U23 age group isn't recognised amongst our leaders despite it making up at least half the list!

FWIW I think the leadership group is overrepresented anyway and the main purpose it now serves is to spread the function load better.

 

[7ft Cox]

If you can't make it within such an environment then you get pushed out the door, not fall through the cracks.

Most of us would forgo our first born (sorry Grace) to be given an opportunity and also afforded such a workplace of growth. Players either take that on board or go elsewhere / drop out of the system.

Only with the benefit of a few grey hairs, a beer belly and much hindsight
I for one would have been a shit of kid at 18 in that program

 

[Knightmare]

There's a terrific article by Emma Quayle in The Age today about our development program. Also provides insight into Davoren and what he does. Its so good and insightful, it deserves a thread of its own.

Its titled 'How to build an AFL footballer', and starts with this:

'It takes a village to raise a child, and it takes a team of people to turn a teenage draftee into a fully formed AFL footballer. "It's collaborative," says Bill Davoren, Collingwood's high-performance manager: there's the coaches, the welfare manager, the doctor, the physios, the nutritionist and the rest.

"There's no one person in this building saying, this is the definitive pathway for this particular player. It's discussed, negotiated. It fluctuates. It's never done independently," Davoren said.'

See more here.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/how-to-build-an-afl-footballer-20160229-gn66qg.html

It was an excellent article by Emma and a terrific read.

With the four year plan it is clear and makes some sense to our great success we have developing our players through their first four seasons.

The lack of a structured plan for seasons after season four along these lines may also account for the relative stagnation after four years in our program, and that slowed and in many cases stop in individual growth.

I would also recommend the club take a strong interest in looking at those years later in players careers to help extend careers. With Cloke and Pendlebury nearing 30 and Swan 31 years of age and Reid's body continually failing him, it is about time we stop our trend of having our players hit 30 and be essentially finished or shadows of their former selves.

 

[TradeDraft]

It was an excellent article by Emma and a terrific read.

With the four year plan it is clear and makes some sense to our great success we have developing our players through their first four seasons.

The lack of a structured plan for seasons after season four along these lines may also account for the relative stagnation after four years in our program, and that slowed and in many cases stop in individual growth.

I would also recommend the club take a strong interest in looking at those years later in players careers to help extend careers. With Cloke and Pendlebury nearing 30 and Swan 31 years of age and Reid's body continually failing him, it is about time we stop our trend of having our players hit 30 and be essentially finished or shadows of their former selves.

Swan looks like he might have a New Lease of Life as a Forward as 30 or older player

 

[Knightmare]

Swan looks like he might have a New Lease of Life as a Forward as 30 or older player

We can only hope.

Swan is still the second best midfielder at the club until he isn't, but given the clubs commitment to playing youth through the midfield invariably Swan will spend a greater percentage of time forward than he has had to play.

The signs still remain concerning regarding long term play for all our players.

Cloke hasn't been nearly his former self these past couple of years. Having to play deeper, poor delivery into the front half and a lack of other worthwhile options have all worked against him, but none the less he hasn't produced to nearly the level he did previously.

Reid keeps getting hurt. Dale Thomas was done when after the 2011 season. Didak was done after the 2010 season. Fraser was done after the 2009 season. Maxwell limped to 30 in those last few years really struggling.
It's a constant theme of guys not continuing to produce.

Even Swan has lost a step, lacking the pace and gut running he once had. But given his size and strength in the contest he has still remained certainly last year as a 30/31 year old a highly effective and still excellent stoppage player.

Further to this guys aren't improving after several years in our system. Even someone as great as Pendlebury hasn't been able to better his 2011 season. Cloke, Swan and to a greater extent Reid and D.Thomas all achieved their success earlier in their 20s.

That's why by contrast to a Hawthorn we have not been able to achieve the same level of success. You have the likes of Luke Hodge at 31 having a career year, Burgoyne in 2014 playing his best footy since his Port Adelaide days in his 30s, Sam Mitchell returning every year the same player and so on. We need to help our players after the ages of 22/23 to continue growing for one, and have them continue adding to their games, and secondly help them as they get into their late 20s and 30s to stay healthy, but also continue improving. And that formula clearly isn't nearly there yet because there have been no signs of any major improvement here.

 

[TradeDraft]

We can only hope.

Swan is still the second best midfielder at the club until he isn't, but given the clubs commitment to playing youth through the midfield invariably Swan will spend a greater percentage of time forward than he has had to play.

The signs still remain concerning regarding long term play for all our players.

Cloke hasn't been nearly his former self these past couple of years. Having to play deeper, poor delivery into the front half and a lack of other worthwhile options have all worked against him, but none the less he hasn't produced to nearly the level he did previously.

Reid keeps getting hurt. Dale Thomas was done when after the 2011 season. Didak was done after the 2010 season. Fraser was done after the 2009 season. Maxwell limped to 30 in those last few years really struggling.
It's a constant theme of guys not continuing to produce.

Even Swan has lost a step, lacking the pace and gut running he once had. But given his size and strength in the contest he has still remained certainly last year as a 30/31 year old a highly effective and still excellent stoppage player.

Further to this guys aren't improving after several years in our system. Even someone as great as Pendlebury hasn't been able to better his 2011 season. Cloke, Swan and to a greater extent Reid and D.Thomas all achieved their success earlier in their 20s.

That's why by contrast to a Hawthorn we have not been able to achieve the same level of success. You have the likes of Luke Hodge at 31 having a career year, Burgoyne in 2014 playing his best footy since his Port Adelaide days in his 30s, Sam Mitchell returning every year the same player and so on. We need to help our players after the ages of 22/23 to continue growing for one, and have them continue adding to their games, and secondly help them as they get into their late 20s and 30s to stay healthy, but also continue improving. And that formula clearly isn't nearly there yet because there have been no signs of any major improvement here.

Injuries are not exactly part of the Program.

Hawks have had lot better luck with Injuries then us Recently. That would help the older players

I can see Treloar going past Swan quite Quickly