our drafting

[blues76]

lets hope we get it right this year in terms of picking up the BEST talent...i know luck plays a bit in it but the recruiters must get it right... read and weep

vance pick 6
massie 7

livo 4 sporn 11 wiggins 15...all in the same bloody draft..

 

[gandaal]

1998: Pick 38- Brendan Fevola
1999: Pick 73- Ryan Houlihan
2001: Pick 46- Jarrad Waite, Rookie Draft- Bret Thornton
2002: Pick 45- Kade Simpson, Pick 72- Brad Fisher, Pick 79- Karl Norman
2003: Pick 72- Adrian Deluca, Rookie draft- Adam Bentick, Rookie Draft- Andrew Carrazzo
2004: Pick 73- Chris Bryan, Pre-season draft- Eddie Betts

 

[blue_bhoy]

Gandaal just sumed it up nicely, everyone is a great recruiter in hindsight. Look at somne of those other picks especially the lower and rookie picks.

 

[Teagson]

1998: Pick 38- Brendan Fevola
1999: Pick 73- Ryan Houlihan
2001: Pick 46- Jarrad Waite, Rookie Draft- Bret Thornton
2002: Pick 45- Kade Simpson, Pick 72- Brad Fisher, Pick 79- Karl Norman
2003: Pick 72- Adrian Deluca, Rookie draft- Adam Bentick, Rookie Draft- Andrew Carrazzo
2004: Pick 73- Chris Bryan, Pre-season draft- Eddie Betts

We took Waite through Father - Son, we were extremely lucky getting Simpson at pick 45, while Norman, De Luca and Bryan haven't actually made a name for themselves yet. Not to mention the fact that we picked up Carrazzo thanks to Geelong.

And of course, what about these blunders:

Stephen O'Reilly, Michael Mansfield, Adam Chatfield, Heath Culpitt, Brett Backwell, Justin Murphy, Jordan Doering, Corey McKernan, Blake Campbell, Andrew Eccles, Jim Plunkett, David Clarke, Glen Bowyer, Jordan Bannister, Ricky Mott, Sean O'Keeffe, Callan Beasy ... (I could go on for ages)

Something hasn't been right with our recruiting, and it's then no surprise that we're down the ladder with Collingwood, Richmond and Hawthorn, three other clubs who have also been poor drafters/traders of late.

 

[gandaal]

We took Waite through Father - Son, we were extremely lucky getting Simpson at pick 45, while Norman, De Luca and Bryan haven't actually made a name for themselves yet. Not to mention the fact that we picked up Carrazzo thanks to Geelong.

And of course, what about these blunders:

Stephen O'Reilly, Michael Mansfield, Adam Chatfield, Heath Culpitt, Brett Backwell, Justin Murphy, Jordan Doering, Corey McKernan, Blake Campbell, Andrew Eccles, Jim Plunkett, David Clarke, Glen Bowyer, Jordan Bannister, Ricky Mott, Sean O'Keeffe, Callan Beasy ... (I could go on for ages)

Something hasn't been right with our recruiting, and it's then no surprise that we're down the ladder with Collingwood, Richmond and Hawthorn, three other clubs who have also been poor drafters/traders of late.

You can't expect that every player we pick up in the draft will be a player, you have to be pretty dellusional to believe that. Jordan Bannister had a great year last year (while I expect him to be delisted at the end of this year), Jimmy was a rookie elevation from memory and had a few really good games, Corey won a B&F and Justin Murphy was a great servant of the club for a long time. Some of the other names you've mentioned are mistakes from 8 or more years ago, your pulling a big bow there aren't you? You can't use evidence of blunders from almost a decade ago to have a go at recruiting staff who've only been in charge at our club for a year or two.

 

[Teagson]

You can't expect that every player we pick up in the draft will be a player, you have to be pretty dellusional to believe that. Jordan Bannister had a great year last year (while I expect him to be delisted at the end of this year), Jimmy was a rookie elevation from memory and had a few really good games, Corey won a B&F and Justin Murphy was a great servant of the club for a long time. Some of the other names you've mentioned are mistakes from 8 or more years ago, your pulling a big bow there aren't you? You can't use evidence of blunders from almost a decade ago to have a go at recruiting staff who've only been in charge at our club for a year or two.

Shane O'Sullivan was involved with recruiting for some time wasn't he?

Of course they can't all be stars, but our success rate with high draft picks and trades is considerably lower than other clubs.

Vance, Massie, Livo, and Walker (not yet anyway) were all top 10 picks and haven't really made an impact at Carlton. To then think we'd waste high picks in recruiting O'Reilly and Mansfield for a few years, and again throw them later away on Murphy and McKernan who aren't even on our list anymore just proves the mediocrity of our past recruiting.

Of course it's easier in hindsight, however, I personally think we wouldn't be in the position we're in today had we placed greater emphasis on player development, rather than fixing up loose ends. To think that we were getting excited in 2001 over Prenda and Plunkett!

 

[gandaal]

Shane O'Sullivan was involved with recruiting for some time wasn't he?

Yes he "was". The point is that he's no longer in charge of recruiting for Carlton. We had a shake up a year or two ago and someone else was put in charge.

I can't believe you just had a go at Walker. Because pick number 3 Farran Ray is such a champion isn't he? Brock McClean had two or three good games at the start of the season and has now dropped off the face of the planet and the same goes for Slyvia. Maybe we should've picked them instead I have no more time for you.

 

[Teagson]

I can't believe you just had a go at Walker. Because pick number 3 Farran Ray is such a champion isn't he? Brock McClean had two or three good games at the start of the season and has now dropped off the face of the planet and the same goes for Slyvia. Maybe we should've picked them instead I have no more time for you.

Didn't you catch the 'not yet' part?

Of course Walker will become a fine player for us, it's just that I (and others) have expected more from him at this stage.

Interesting how you also managed to ignore Deledio, Tambling, Franklin, Griffen, and Roughead, considering each are starting to make an impact at their respective clubs.

 

[gandaal]

Didn't you catch the 'not yet' part?

Of course Walker will become a fine player for us, it's just that I (and others) have expected more from him at this stage.

Interesting how you also managed to ignore Deledio, Tambling, Franklin, Griffen, and Roughead, considering each are starting to make an impact at their respective clubs.

Did catch it but your implication was that he won't make it. It was obvious and you know it.

The last group are all draftees from a completely different draft

 

[mojo31]

Didn't you catch the 'not yet' part?

Of course Walker will become a fine player for us, it's just that I (and others) have expected more from him at this stage.

Interesting how you also managed to ignore Deledio, Tambling, Franklin, Griffen, and Roughead, considering each are starting to make an impact at their respective clubs.

What do those players have anything to do with us?

 

[WTTF]

You can go through this process for every club and for every bad decision they make early ina d raft, they make a great decision later on in the draft.

Times have changed now too, with more time and effort placed on drafting nowadays as compared to when the likes of Vance and Massie were selected.

With O'Sullivan moving on to a new role as of last year, obviously the club thought it was time for a change as well. Wayne Hughes has only participated in the one draft for us, so give him some time to make his mark.

 

[Teagson]

Did catch it but your implication was that he won't make it. It was obvious and you know it.

No it wasn't obvious as there was no implication of him not making it. It appears that you immediately resort to a defensive mode once Walker's name is mentioned.

The last group are all draftees from a completely different draft

Still high draftees, just like Walker.

Surely you must be slightly disappointed at Walker's progress compared to other players?

 

[gandaal]

Still high draftees, just like Walker.

Surely you must be slightly disappointed at Walker's progress compared to other players?

Not really. It wasn't too long ago people were calling for the heads of Simpson and Bentick, now look at them. Kids take time, some longer than others. I wish his disposal was a little bit better but he's shown enough signs to prove that he'll be a very good player for us.

 

[bibi01]

We took Waite through Father - Son, we were extremely lucky getting Simpson at pick 45, while Norman, De Luca and Bryan haven't actually made a name for themselves yet. Not to mention the fact that we picked up Carrazzo thanks to Geelong.

And of course, what about these blunders:

Stephen O'Reilly, Michael Mansfield, Adam Chatfield, Heath Culpitt, Brett Backwell, Justin Murphy, Jordan Doering, Corey McKernan, Blake Campbell, Andrew Eccles, Jim Plunkett, David Clarke, Glen Bowyer, Jordan Bannister, Ricky Mott, Sean O'Keeffe, Callan Beasy ... (I could go on for ages)

Something hasn't been right with our recruiting, and it's then no surprise that we're down the ladder with Collingwood, Richmond and Hawthorn, three other clubs who have also been poor drafters/traders of late.

your list goes a fair way back, here are some names you can compare your list against:
m lappin 137 games
e spalding premiership
b pearce 77 games premiership
hulme 100 games
d rice 118 games premiership
m clape 58 games premiership
g manton 153 games premiership
a hickmott games 102

in years gone by carlton FC as a whole had the attitude that carlton do not re-build they just top up.
it hasn't been until of late that we have changed that around.
proven this year (the fist year back in the draft with no penalties) by being the youngest list in the comp, recruiting for the future (raso)

drafting has only become an exact science in the last 4-5 years, before that there was not as much importance put on the draft. this has now changed

what qualifies a draftee or trade as having made a name for themselves at a club?
is it games played, goals scores, avg possessions, awards won, top 10 finishes in B&F?

 

[gadj1976]

talking about previous drafts and our picks is dumb. you pick the type of player you need AT THE TIME - not necessarily the best player. If that player did or didn't work out so be it. It's less likely to happen these days (low draft pick being ordinary) because of the study they do regarding them.

All a storm in a teacup.

 

[mojo31]

talking about previous drafts and our picks is dumb. you pick the type of player you need AT THE TIME - not necessarily the best player. If that player did or didn't work out so be it. It's less likely to happen these days (low draft pick being ordinary) because of the study they do regarding them.

All a storm in a teacup.

Dont agree. You pick the best player available every time. Go for the tall if it is line ball between 2 players. Players take years to develop so who knows by the time they are ready what the need is going to be anyway.

 

[Teagson]

Not really. It wasn't too long ago people were calling for the heads of Simpson and Bentick, now look at them. Kids take time, some longer than others. I wish his disposal was a little bit better but he's shown enough signs to prove that he'll be a very good player for us.

I guess it doesn't help his development being placed in a side that gets smashed week in, week out.

It's hard though, trying to defend him from opposition supporters, especially when he doesn't make a significant impact on a game.

Of course the signs are there, and let's just hope he can become the player we so desperately require.

your list goes a fair way back, here are some names you can compare your list against:
m lappin 137 games
e spalding premiership
b pearce 77 games premiership
hulme 100 games
d rice 118 games premiership
m clape 58 games premiership
g manton 153 games premiership
a hickmott games 102

The main problem I had with our recruiting staff was their inability to find players who could actually be developed and fill major roles for us, rather than just become patchwork. As we all know, once our champions began to retire and suffer injury, this absurd drafting policy became our undoing in 2002.

I will admit though, Hickmott, Lappin, Manton and Rice in particular were excellent acquisitions.

what qualifies a draftee or trade as having made a name for themselves at a club?

Consistently making a contribution to the side.

 

[juzz_blues]

U look at all our bad early picks and they were all done before Pagan got to Carlton so maybe we shouldn't be too worried. he has got us Simpson,Fisher,Bryan,Betts all with late picks. And walker is his only early pick at Carlton and he will end up being a star, one day.