Our field kicking/forward structure

[obleex]

Our disgraceful field kicking came back to bite us on the a** last night. I have been saying it all year. Why we persist with constantly bombing it long to Cloke and Dawes instead of hitting up leading smalls and mediums across half forward is beyond me.

There was about a 10-15 minute patch in the 3rd quarter where we managed to get a bit of scoreboard pressure back on the Kangas by hitting up targets in that 30-40m range (for memory only Beams converted however).

By doing this we look far less predictable. The only way we're going to get Cloke and Dawes into any kind of space is if we start hitting these guys up. Guys like Fasolo, Goldsack (when he's back), Elliot, Sinclair, Sidebottom, Blair... the list goes on. In 2010 and 2011 we hit these guys up and it made it A LOT easier for Cloke and Dawes to get space as it meant that guys like Gibson and other 3rd man up type defenders had to stick to their man.

However, this year, time after time after time we insist on kicking it long and high to Cloke in particular. One of the worst offenders of this this season has been our skipper. As good as he was last season and as poor as he has been this year in comparison, you can't expect Travis to consistently out mark 2, 3, 4 guys jumping all over him. I'd be pretty disgruntled if I was him as well - week after week we're relying on him to get us over the line more and more as we just refuse to find other ways to goal.

Another area which needs urgent attention is the way in which our forwards lead after they do not get used. If I had a dollar for every time Dawes, Goldsack, Elliot (who is young and probably just doesn't know better) etc lead towards the path of Trav I would be quite a rich man I'd guess. The thing with doing this is they bring their man with them. We do not have the classy crumbers at this point in time to consistently put scoreboard pressure on from spillages. With Krak hopefully on the way back this will help. Also Macaffer's selfless games across half forward, dragging his man out past half forward onto the wing can not be underestimated.


Just my two cents guys. Would love to hear your opinions.

 

[SuperSub17]

Hopefully we get Krak back, would be huge.

Just a poor night last night I guess. All teams have their problems atm and this is certainly one of ours.

 

[Soul_Pie]

Our forward structure has been our weakness all year, we used to score with ridiculous ease and fluidity, now every scoring attack is slow and laboured.

I don't know if the fault lies at the hands of Matty Lappin or whether the players aren't working hard enough, but watch teams like hawthorn and every forward is utilised and good leads are honoured and opposition defences are opened up with players spreading. More frustratingly we're constantly going down the wings again in our forward approaches as a default, I thought that was going to change? Old habits die hard I guess.

 

[Rusty22]

yep defenatly our forward line is the problem

 

[lenny20]

Structurally, we're a mess, and this is most apparent when it comes to going forward. We've been winning games this year off the brilliance of a midfield which is the best I've seen in black and white (and that's with Ball injured). Seriously, the only reason we've been competitive at all is the impressive depth of Swan, Pendles, Beams, Thomas, Sidebottom, Blair, Wellingham and co.

But that's what makes this complete lack of structure so frustrating - if we could merely break even with other teams structurally, that midfield alone would make us damn near unstoppable. Even in games where we get kicked off the park, like against the Hawks, you'd have to say our midfield probably won more of the ball. But every week we play, we get roundly outmaneuvered by the opposition, both forward and back (but mostly in our forward line).

For mine, this comes down to an inability to generate one-on-one situations, and an inability to restrict our opponents from doing likewise. How rare is it to see one of our forwards in a genuine 1v1 contest these days? Not just Cloke and Dawes, who in addition to both being horrendously out of touch are usually up against three or more opponents, but any forward at all? Some say it's a delivery thing, but in all the games I've been to, it looks a far more structural problem. We don't hit up any players on the lead because we simply don't seem to have the players down there to lead in the first place (other than the aforementioned double-teamed Cloke and Dawes). We seem to lose all our smaller forwards as they get sucked up the ground, allowing their opponents to just zone back, loose in defence. This would be fine if the players who get sucked up the ground actually make an impact, but they haven't - they simply stand around the congested up-field contest, bombing it long to their loose opponents if they win it. It's just such a structural nightmare to watch. Even on the fast break, on those rare occasions where we move from end-to-end in the blink of an eye, we're outnumbered heavily up forward, usually with Cloke against two opponents and no smalls to capitalise on the crumb. Look at the Swans game - even though we got the ball out from defence quickly several times, it took Dawes outmarking two or more opponents on several occasions for us to win the game. We can't rely on winning 2v1 or 3v1 contests to win finals. The odds are simply against us.

Now, all of that would be fine if we are able to do the same thing to the opposition's forward line, clogging it up and getting numbers to the contest - but we seem absolutely incapable of it at the moment. Look at how many 1v1 contests Petrie, Hansen and Tarrant got on the end of last night. I thought that our tall backs actually won more 1v1s than they lost, but there were just too many times where Brown was left one out on Petrie, or Reid on Tarrant, or Shaw on Hansen (note - I thought our Tarrant got well on top of Hansen when he moved back in the 2nd half). We were playing with no men loose down back, whereas North always managed to generate two or three spare in their defence. Again, structurally a nightmare.

So where are our free players? Near as I can tell, we've developed this awful habit of moving our smaller forwards right up the ground, either to affect the midfield contest or to station themselves 20m-30m goalside of the midfield contest. Essentially, they're either becoming part of the midfield battle themselves or getting pulled so close to it that they're not a realistic option should we win the ball from the midfield. The result is usually a bomb to an outnumbered Cloke or Dawes, who is inevitably spoiled.

But here's the truly tragic part - by moving higher up the ground, our smaller forwards are nowhere near the spillage that Cloke and Dawes are causing. Never. They're back in the midfield, watching their direct opponents sweep the ball out across half-back, completely unmanned. And to compound our troubles, they're usually too far up the ground to apply any of that supposed forward pressure that's been missing since early 2011. The result is that we always win the midfield battle, only to be outnumbered five-on-two in our forward line, where we invariably lose possession. And this is where the really good uncontested football sides (Carlton, Hawthorn, the Kangas - those teams that are fast on the spread and well skilled) have cut as to shreds this year. The very act of going forward for us involves kicking away possession, and allowing uncontested football for the opposition across their half-back line. Enter Birchall, Suckling, Yarran, Gibbs and co who are always going to kick us apart when there's no pressure applied to them.

See, offensive pressure doesn't mean having Ben Sinclair chasing three loose opponents around all day, valiant though those efforts may be. It means having a manic group tackling effort where every one of the opposition's players is confronted with at least one of ours. And our current set-up is absolutely killing that concept. We simply don't have any numbers up front to apply that pressure, and, as a result, the better uncontested sides can just sweep the ball forward at breakneck speeds, leaving our defenders one out.

So what needs to change? First, the expectations on Cloke and Dawes are completely misaligned. We shouldn't be expecting them to win 2v1 and 3v1 contests. We shouldn't even be expecting them to win too many of their 1v1 contests. What we should be expecting is that they bring the ball to ground. And for the most part, they are. But the support simply isn't there. At this stage, we're simply bombing it on their heads, against multiple opponents, and saying "a contest isn't good enough - we need you to win, hands down". It's completely unfair. If we do insist on going long and direct (and honestly, it's not a bad option) we need to structure up that way, station the smaller forwards at their feet, rather than 75 metres out from goal on the flanks, and accept the fact that we might not win the contest, but we will make damn sure that the ball doesn't just rebound with the ease of three or more defenders loping across our fifty uncontested.

Second, we need to start becoming less predictable. Long and direct is fine for some of our forward entries, but it's all the time right now. If our small forwards start stationing themselves closer to goal, we have a chance of hitting them up on the lead, at least. So far this year, I'd say Fasolo is the only player who has actually got his positioning correct enough times to provide such a target. We often look a lot more dangerous is we can spot up a leading target around that 50-60m mark - it drags opposition players away from Cloke and Dawes and allows for at least a 1v1 chance, or another lead in turn. Again, we're structuring up all wrong right now to give our smaller forwards any chance of providing such an option.

Finally, and this might sound strange, but we need to commit to our forward running as well as our defensive running. We're usually pretty good at getting numbers back to help out the defence, but we're struggling to get numbers to the contest forward of centre these days. This probably stems from a lack of confidence as much as anything else, since we've been trying to press forward only to see the ball rebound, uncontested, over our heads for an opposition goal. But if our smaller forwards can actually start playing forward, and we can start applying a little more pressure to the opposition defence, the ball will start rebounding a lot more slowly, and our midfielders will have a chance to get to a forward contest before it pings back out over their heads. And honestly, that's where we're going to start looking the most dangerous. If we can create a contest in our forward line long enough for the likes of Pendles, Swan, Beams and Sidebottom to get there and provide support, that is going to worry a lot of teams.



Sorry for the long post there gang, it's just something that's been bugging me all year. We just have to stop allowing our opposition to outnumber us so comprehensively in our own forward line, because it's killing us all over the ground as a result. It's time to start playing our small forwards as exactly that: forwards. Not high flankers or extra midfielders.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

I initially posted this in another thread, but it's applicable here..

It's been an issue for us all year- we had Leon Davis in that role for a decade, and Brad Dick was supposed to be the heir apparent. Obviously injuries de-railed Dick's career, so last year we brought in Krakouer (which gave us the luxury of sending Davis to the backline).

This pre-season Leigh Brown and Davis walked/retired surprisingly early, and Krakouer and Macaffer (who gets forgotten) did their ACLs within a week of each other back in February. We used to play Sidebottom and Beams in that crumbing/flanker role, but given Luke Ball's injury, they've been needed in midfield.

Our forward-line as a whole has been dysfunctional all year as a result- throw in Cloke and Dawes' form issues, and it's the perfect storm. This is the primary reason why we have seldom buried sides this season.. doesn't matter how well we do in the midfield, we're always pushing uphill in terms of taking advantage of our possession. Sinclair and Elliott are not natural crumbing forwards- they were never recruited as such for that specific role. Goldsack has been playing Caff's 2010 role, but he's not a natural forward either. Dawes spending time in the ruck doesn't help either- we're constantly robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Losing Johnno AND Davis from our half-back line for the entire season, with their experience, run and carry and decision making skills, has only compounded the problem.

 

[HFF]

Our forward structure has been our weakness all year, we used to score with ridiculous ease and fluidity, now every scoring attack is slow and laboured.

I don't know if the fault lies at the hands of Matty Lappin or whether the players aren't working hard enough, but watch teams like hawthorn and every forward is utilised and good leads are honoured and opposition defences are opened up with players spreading. More frustratingly we're constantly going down the wings again in our forward approaches as a default, I thought that was going to change? Old habits die hard I guess.

Top post.

It used to be a joy to watch at how easy and fluid we would move the footy and score at will. Now, it is a bore and tiresom to play and watch. We don't score cheap goals anymore.

Teams like North/Hawks/Carl who have beaten us, always put the ball into space to the leading option. This forces you to move anmd creates space even if you don't want to. All their players are in sync with where they must move to get the footy.

We don't spot up players anymore. We just bomb and then hope we take an outrageous contested grab. Worst that can happemn is we force a stoppage but guess what? Our press is also shot. We cannot defend the ball rebounding out of our forward half anymore either.

We also look like the predictable side of late 2011 where Geelong had figured us out. It's wide ball use again.

If this keeps up, we could be looking at a straight sets exit.

This looms as a failed year for Bucks.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Why the hell are we kicking it 50 metres or more EVERY TIME we get the ball.

It's like only a select few try to pass to a player - wellingham and pendlebury.

everyone else just blasts it hoping cloke marks it..

extremely frustrating. hawthorn/ carlton/ north. short field kicks to players just before the forward centre really open up the opposition. instead we blast it over our spare palyer's head....

 

[themulletking]

i remember at the start of the year, pendles was saying that the competition would be all about the contested ball.
that would be the team view, so maybe.. we've focused on that, so we're really good at grinding out wins simply by throwing enough bodies at the contest.
but meanwhile, teams like hawthorn and carlton have devised game plans in which they can avoid contests.
this negates our strengths and since our spine is really out of sorts, its no surprise we're struggling.

i reckon we've got a flawed game style, we need to rejig it. THOUGH if there is any positive... we seem to play really well in the finals-type match's, so when we hit finals, everything could fall into our hands ????

 

[SuperSub17]

Last year we kicked 100 points in 17 of our first 21 games, with the 4 scores below being 99, 98, 89 and 62.

This year, we have reached 100 points 7 times, including games against Melbourne, Gold Coast amd GWS. The other 4 are against Hawthorn (rd 1), Brisbane (rd 7), Freo (rd 14) and Geelong (rd 16).

 

[rose jam]

There's a bit in this, but one thing we don't do well is use the short kick to break up the opposition - this is the trend of the best football played by other teams this year. You can not any more press forward because teams have learnt to control the ball with the short kick.
It doesn't seem to me that our froward line is playing with a spread, but more jus occupying the 50m and hoping to lock it in and get it through that way. It won't work now, you have to ht up the 30m target on the way through to break open space.
It's too late to get this right this year, our only hope is dominant performances from our midfield.
I think our defense is tracking OK defensively, but it has no run. Clearly Brown needs to be dropped and Taz needs to get back there, and Shaw needs to be played up field. Seems like some very obvious things there but the coaching panel sure made some shocking choices on the weekend. Why they're persisting with the 3 talls in the forward line is baffling, it's only making the stagnation up there worse.

 

[regpies]

Our forwards don't lead, they just stand there so our mids have no choice but to bomb it long. I can only guess it's a directive from the coaches if there is a lack of leading from every player. There isn't much leading and doubling back in attempts to create space.

 

[Stripes B and W]

Lack of run from defence is absolutely an issue. I normaly sit very low, i like that perspective of the game. For the North game, i was top deck, the lack of run and finesse from defence was very apparent. The ability on the opposition to break our 'zone' from kick ins is at total odds with 2010 and 2011.

 

[Staki_13]

An interresting stat i thought from saturday night was we had more r50 than i50. We are getting the ball from the back line but can't carry it up the field

 

[entourage]

I didn't watch the game because I was out but the biggest problem we have had all year IMO is our kick-ins. The buck stops there. When we kick a point teams seem to get it out and find loose players so easily, yet when the roles are reversed we get choked up and wind up kicking to contests. It causes a slow break and I think everything forward from there breaks down because of it. It's so frustrating because it used to be a strength of ours, even pre-Leon Davis kicking in.
Until we fix our kick-ins we are going nowhere IMO.

 

[rose jam]

An interresting stat i thought from saturday night was we had more r50 than i50. We are getting the ball from the back line but can't carry it up the field

The reason is we don't use the short kick, plain and simple. Teams are using the 30m kick through the middle of the ground to break it open.
It's what Bux was clearly trying to get us to do at the start of the year when we were being told we were too attacking.
Looks like we need a year to transition to it.