Our Game Plan

[Tiger Claw]

I have questions regarding our game plan.

I've heard it said Dimma is fascinated with strategy but has he designed a style of play that is unnecessarily complex?

Part of me wonders if we would have been better off going simpler and using the years putting the effort into doing things better than anyone else. Then I think would such a plan lead to sustained success or would sides find it too easy to work us out sooner rather than later? As good as we could have been would we be left behind as sides developed their own strategies that our style couldn't counteract?

Dimma's tenure has been spent developing a young side and adding increments of the game plan over time - 2014 being the year for the plan to be implemented in its most complete form so far.

We had an abysmal start to our 2014 season. Jack questioning the game plan and having an opinion that instead of copying Hawthorn's short kicking style the team should have stuck to natural progression. Reading between the lines I think that means the players didn't have what it took to implement the strategy at the time. Amongst the euphoria of our 9 wins in a row late in the year I think we lost sight that they weren't necessarily high scoring convincing wins. Often appearing as a grueling grind and taxing.

Moving on to 2015 and I was prepared to put Rnd 1 down as a very rusty looking effort. Come Rnd 2 and I was concerned that the way we implemented the game plan left little margin for error. I was left with the impression of a side under skilled and slow yet also with the thought that with more effort it could have been a completely different story. For a side looking to make and win a final that's just not good enough. It would become a roll of the dice every time we took the field.

Setting aside I haven't seen signs yet that we've settled our forward structure or found more goals thus far we also don't seem to have found another level. No grueling grind win against the Dogs let alone signs that we can implement the game plan with more ease. For mine natural progression in 2015 should have us buying more time in a match through more confident and well drilled game play. Instead we put as much pressure on ourselves as the opposition does.

It's early days and I find myself envying sides playing simple pressurising footy that is lauded by the media but I know too that there can be a lot of flash in the pan games early on (I've seen us playing them over the years) that have no bearing on ladder position come the years end. I tell myself - patience - and hope we haven't gone down the path of being too clever.

 

[kozi]

Little to no pressure or tackling. Average skill. Average speed.

In a nutshell, every team simply backs themselves to go harder for longer against us. They know if they make everything into a contest and don't allow us space we will eventually fold. Nobody got the memo that Hawthorn game plan actually involves going in hard to win the ball / get it back when not in possession. It's like we just wait around for when the game is going to "open up" so we can play the Dimma way. Problem is it's easier for opposition coaches to make it a hard contested game than it is for Dimma to make it an open free flowing game.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Why do so many of our players run into our forward 50? Their opponent follows them and when we want to kick it to full forward, there are 40 players in there and we are forced to bomb it from 60. Dimma should tell no one to enter the 50 except for the 6 nominated forwards and maybe 1 other nominated player. Give the forwards somewhere to lead. If Bulldogs players want to flood our 50 then we'd have 15 players outside the 50 who can attempt a goal from 50 or a nominated player can run into 50 and offer another target

 

[juss]

Not enough players are willing to put their head over it and win the hard ball. Game plan needs to be revised because we have next to no physical presence without the ball. Pressure and tackling is almost non existent.

 

[Tiger Claw]

Little to no pressure or tackling. Average skill. Average speed.

In a nutshell, every team simply backs themselves to go harder for longer against us. They know if they make everything into a contest and don't allow us space we will eventually fold. Nobody got the memo that Hawthorn game plan actually involves going in hard to win the ball / get it back when not in possession. It's like we just wait around for when the game is going to "open up" so we can play the Dimma way. Problem is it's easier for opposition coaches to make it a hard contested game than it is for Dimma to make it an open free flowing game.

Agree it is easier for opposition than us and we suffer for the imbalance unless we go full at it. It wouldn't get any easier for us until we can play at that level consistently. Don't think it impossible but think we've still a lot of work ahead of ourselves. Perhaps more than I thought we would have after a 'great preseason'.

 

[Tiger Claw]

Why do so many of our players run into our forward 50? Their opponent follows them and when we want to kick it to full forward, there are 40 players in there and we are forced to bomb it from 60. Dimma should tell no one to enter the 50 except for the 6 nominated forwards and maybe 1 other nominated player. Give the forwards somewhere to lead. If Bulldogs players want to flood our 50 then we'd have 15 players outside the 50 who can attempt a goal from 50 or a nominated player can run into 50 and offer another target

Now there's a thought.

 

[Tiger Claw]

Not enough players are willing to put their head over it and win the hard ball. Game plan needs to be revised because we have next to no physical presence without the ball. Pressure and tackling is almost non existent.

How much of a revision given the amount expended on the plan so far? Are we at a crossroad?

 

[kozi]

Agree it is easier for opposition than us and we suffer for the imbalance unless we go full at it. It wouldn't get any easier for us until we can play at that level consistently. Don't think it impossible but think we've still a lot of work ahead of ourselves. Perhaps more than I thought we would have after a 'great preseason'.

Yep that's the massive flaw we have. Much easier for opposition to clog the game up than it is for us to break the game open. We don't even have the foot speed ala Port to force the issue in the way we want to play. We basically have 22 passengers that just wait for the game to open up to have a go. Problem is that its increasingly more unlikely we're going to have much open play as it's well known by almost every opposition coach that all they have to do is have numbers around the ball, clog up the ground and not let it become an open end to end affair. Pretty easy coaching directive for any opposition coaches to give their players when they play us. Any team that does it for 4 qtrs against us usually beats us, no matter their skill level.

It's like by coaching this loose ball chip/mark Hawthorn game style Dimma has inadvertently taken away the moderate amount of grunt we used to have in the contest. Difference is that Clarkson knows you have to bloody win the ball first for it to work.

 

[Spagman]

I wondered why the answer to countering the flood isn't to hand the ball off to the guys that can kick 50m+?

 

[Cevap_Roll]

Im still confused as to why Ben Griffiths keeps looking around when he has marked it from 55m out. Just take the ****ing shot. We have someone who can beat the flood with one kick but it doesn't look like he has the licence to go for it.

 

[Tigerforlife78]

Im still confused as to why Ben Griffiths keeps looking around when he has marked it from 55m out. Just take the ******* shot. We have someone who can beat the flood with one kick but it doesn't look like he has the licence to go for it.

I was confused on Saturday as to whether or not his reluctance to kick was lack of confidence or game plan.

 

[Cevap_Roll]

I was confused on Saturday as to whether or not his reluctance to kick was lack of confidence or game plan.

It didnt look right. He looked confused and unsure of himself. That has to be the game plan or coaches instructions.
When the Rocca brothers marked that far out they weren't looking around they were taking their time for a set shot.

 

[Gunit]

Do we have a game plan?

 

[Cevap_Roll]

Do we have a game plan?

Panic when tackled. Rush your kick sideways and handball to someone under more pressure than you.

 

[_DBF_]

The Bulldogs won because they went in harder and played more direct.

This suggests our game plan is shit and our players are soft.

We need some blokes who bring the grunt. I wouldn't be upset to see Petterd's and Morris's and Thomas's - much like King, Jackson, Tuck.

Change of coach ... or the very least a change of game plan.

And play some kids who can use the ball.

Thomas is stuck on the rookie list. So Morris should be our go to guy to throw in the middle when Cotch or company is getting mauled.

I really like Short. Anyone else think he has buckets of potential to be a small crumber?

Anyways, eventually I'd like to see from last weeks team.

Out: Newman, Lambert, Gordon, Petterd, Chaplin, Grigg
In: McDonough, Lennon, Conca, Astbury, Knights, Edwards, Deledio, Vickery, C. Ellis

B: Grimes Astbury Vlastuin
HB: Batchelor Rance Houli
C: B. Ellis Cotchin Hunt
HF: Martin Griffiths Deledio
F: Lloyd Riewoldt Morris
R: Maric Miles Edwards
Int (from): Lennon McDonough McIntosh Knights Vickery Conca C. Ellis

Thomas and Petterd the tough durable back ups. Short and Lambert ones also to watch. A lot to like with all our kids.

Chaplin is the only bloke on the list that is signed up for next year, that I really wish wasn't.

 

[Rubber Hips]

Im still confused as to why Ben Griffiths keeps looking around when he has marked it from 55m out. Just take the ******* shot. We have someone who can beat the flood with one kick but it doesn't look like he has the licence to go for it.

and when he does, it's usually off 1 step

 

[tigerimij]

Another area of concern is our ballups. Ivan is a true warrior, don't get me wrong but at ballups if its part of the game plan to fanny pat the ball to his feet then at least the on ballers could play in front. Many times on Saturday the dogs won out roving to Ivan,very frustrating,surely he could change his tactics if he can see that we are clearly getting beat in that area. Another frustrating thing with our ball ups is that our rucks tap to our defensive side most of the time, even when we are deep in attack.Im not having a go at our rucks as its obviously part of the game plan and it seems to work against us.

 

[Rubber Hips]

The Bulldogs won because they went in harder and played more direct.

This suggests our game plan is shit and our players are soft.

We need some blokes who bring the grunt. I wouldn't be upset to see Petterd's and Morris's and Thomas's - much like King, Jackson, Tuck.

Change of coach ... or the very least a change of game plan.

And play some kids who can use the ball.

Thomas is stuck on the rookie list. So Morris should be our go to guy to throw in the middle when Cotch or company is getting mauled.

I really like Short. Anyone else think he has buckets of potential to be a small crumber?

Anyways, eventually I'd like to see from last weeks team.

Out: Newman, Lambert, Gordon, Petterd, Chaplin, Grigg
In: McDonough, Lennon, Conca, Astbury, Knights, Edwards, Deledio, Vickery, C. Ellis

B: Grimes Astbury Vlastuin
HB: Batchelor Rance Houli
C: B. Ellis Cotchin Hunt
HF: Martin Griffiths Deledio
F: Lloyd Riewoldt Morris
R: Maric Miles Edwards
Int (from): Lennon McDonough McIntosh Knights Vickery Conca C. Ellis

Thomas and Petterd the tough durable back ups. Short and Lambert ones also to watch. A lot to like with all our kids.

Chaplin is the only bloke on the list that is signed up for next year, that I really wish wasn't.

Yes I really like Short...just needs more time in the VFL...will be good for us

Reckon the Doggies won because they scragged us at every opportunity which stopped our running game
The doggies scragging caused stoppages in the play from resultant free kicks to us - note the free count was around 2 million to us and 5 to them.
We were forced to over possess...chip it round until we turned it over...reckon our coaches should have countered this somehow

 

[theflea]

Im still confused as to why Ben Griffiths keeps looking around when he has marked it from 55m out. Just take the ******* shot. We have someone who can beat the flood with one kick but it doesn't look like he has the licence to go for it.

Maybe because this has got ridiculous. He never kicks them from 50 out and those kicks 55+ out drop short. For such a good kick technically, he misses a lot of set shots.

 

[TheProwler]

Why do so many of our players run into our forward 50? Their opponent follows them and when we want to kick it to full forward, there are 40 players in there and we are forced to bomb it from 60. Dimma should tell no one to enter the 50 except for the 6 nominated forwards and maybe 1 other nominated player. Give the forwards somewhere to lead. If Bulldogs players want to flood our 50 then we'd have 15 players outside the 50 who can attempt a goal from 50 or a nominated player can run into 50 and offer another target

There's our problem, 40 players inside fifty and we only have 18 on the ground. Explains the oppositions extra numbers and how they bring it out so quick as they have all 22 on the field

 

[theflea]

Our game plan.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Another area of concern is our ballups. Ivan is a true warrior, don't get me wrong but at ballups if its part of the game plan to fanny pat the ball to his feet then at least the on ballers could play in front. Many times on Saturday the dogs won out roving to Ivan,very frustrating,surely he could change his tactics if he can see that we are clearly getting beat in that area. Another frustrating thing with our ball ups is that our rucks tap to our defensive side most of the time, even when we are deep in attack.Im not having a go at our rucks as its obviously part of the game plan and it seems to work against us.

He's definately under instructions and its Dimma's obsession with stoppages as to why he is. Dimma is working on the weird theory of trying to create a stoppage out of a stoppage. Its really smart when you think about it but don't think about it for too long or you will have trouble understanding it just like the players. It is their fault .

 

[nineteen eighty]

Little to no pressure or tackling. Average skill. Average speed.

In a nutshell, every team simply backs themselves to go harder for longer against us. They know if they make everything into a contest and don't allow us space we will eventually fold. Nobody got the memo that Hawthorn game plan actually involves going in hard to win the ball / get it back when not in possession. It's like we just wait around for when the game is going to "open up" so we can play the Dimma way. Problem is it's easier for opposition coaches to make it a hard contested game than it is for Dimma to make it an open free flowing game.

I don't spend too much time here on the Tiges board only because there are a lot of posters on here who think after a win (or through preseason) that we already have a champion team in the list we have. In reality, we have a list that is more than competitive when EVERYONE plays their role but more often than not, we have a lot of front runners who don't cope well with pressure. Neither do they cope well with combative contested footy.

Dimma may be trying to model our game plan on the Hawks but fair to say we don't have the same class if player as the Hawks. They have the right mix of warriors, classy inside mids and outside runners. Also great mix of tall and small forwards and backs. We have a fraction of what they have.

 

[Tiger Claw]

View attachment 124139

Our game plan.

I visualise it as one of those Grid Iron game tombs that players have to read for years and practice before they are 10 years old before making it in their mid twenties or thirties.

 

[cairo tiger]

I have questions regarding our game plan.

I've heard it said Dimma is fascinated with strategy but has he designed a style of play that is unnecessarily complex?

Part of me wonders if we would have been better off going simpler and using the years putting the effort into doing things better than anyone else. Then I think would such a plan lead to sustained success or would sides find it too easy to work us out sooner rather than later? As good as we could have been would we be left behind as sides developed their own strategies that our style couldn't counteract?

Dimma's tenure has been spent developing a young side and adding increments of the game plan over time - 2014 being the year for the plan to be implemented in its most complete form so far.

We had an abysmal start to our 2014 season. Jack questioning the game plan and having an opinion that instead of copying Hawthorn's short kicking style the team should have stuck to natural progression. Reading between the lines I think that means the players didn't have what it took to implement the strategy at the time. Amongst the euphoria of our 9 wins in a row late in the year I think we lost sight that they weren't necessarily high scoring convincing wins. Often appearing as a grueling grind and taxing.

Moving on to 2015 and I was prepared to put Rnd 1 down as a very rusty looking effort. Come Rnd 2 and I was concerned that the way we implemented the game plan left little margin for error. I was left with the impression of a side under skilled and slow yet also with the thought that with more effort it could have been a completely different story. For a side looking to make and win a final that's just not good enough. It would become a roll of the dice every time we took the field.

Setting aside I haven't seen signs yet that we've settled our forward structure or found more goals thus far we also don't seem to have found another level. No grueling grind win against the Dogs let alone signs that we can implement the game plan with more ease. For mine natural progression in 2015 should have us buying more time in a match through more confident and well drilled game play. Instead we put as much pressure on ourselves as the opposition does.

It's early days and I find myself envying sides playing simple pressurising footy that is lauded by the media but I know too that there can be a lot of flash in the pan games early on (I've seen us playing them over the years) that have no bearing on ladder position come the years end. I tell myself - patience - and hope we haven't gone down the path of being too clever.

when you get your answers let me know