Our Next FF

[conVINCEd]

I was wondering who people think will be Adelaide's Full Forward in three or four years time. I know Luke Jericho is listed at 189cm - do any Crow fans in SA think he will grow any taller - or has he already?

Are we hoping that one of Rutten, Bock, Hentschel and S.Stevens will improve out of sight or that Perrie will find some class?

 

[tribey]

The traditional FF is dead in today's game isn't he?

Dunno if you can groom players for that role is today's day and age. A key forward's a key forward and has to be able to do so much more than offer leads from the square, take marks and kick goals. Today's "full-forward" has to be able to push up the ground and also look after the opposition fullback.

One only has to look at the decline of the likes of John Longmire (who was used more and more as a ruckman as the nineties progressed), Tony Modra and Sav Rocca to see the affect the modern game is having on the position. In fact modern tactics (flooding, counter-attacking regularly off halfback, rotating midfields and ruckmen) and more versatile players are making the stock standard 18 positions of years gone by totally obsolete.

But the AFC would hope all the players you mentioned would become useful when they take the footy field, whether they are deployed as tall defenders or tall forwards.

 

[jc67]

I recpon Burton will play FF to finish his carrer off in about 3-4years, ala Ablett.
he would definatly have crowd appeal and do pretty well i suspect.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by McLeod23
I was wondering who people think will be Adelaide's Full Forward in three or four years time. I know Luke Jericho is listed at 189cm - do any Crow fans in SA think he will grow any taller - or has he already?

NO.

I know for a fact that AFC are developing Jericho as a half-back flanker/wingman. He is nowhere near KP type player.

As dyertribe said the traditional FF is well and truely gone. These days a tall forward are required to be capable of playing in both key forward positions. The days of traditional FF are gone.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: Re: Our Next FF

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
NO.

I know for a fact that AFC are developing Jericho as a half-back flanker/wingman. He is nowhere near KP type player.

As dyertribe said the traditional FF is well and truely gone. These days a tall forward are required to be capable of playing in both key forward positions. The days of traditional FF are gone.

Unless you get an oustanding FF like Lloyd

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: Re: Re: Our Next FF

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Unless you get an oustanding FF like Lloyd

He is not a traditional FF (one dimensional) as the likes of Modra. This year Lloyd has played further up the ground at CHF many time with Cupido coming out of FF. He offers a lot more to a team than just mark and kick a goal. I think he is unfairly judged as a FF and not much more. This year he certainly showed that he is just as effective at CHF.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I agree
Most teams still want to develop a spine which the rest of the team is built around.
The FF is essential to straightening up the side - agreed he must have the flexibility to move to other KP - which is a change in thinking from previous years.
However I do disagree with the oft repeated phrase from football people who now quote the FF is not as an important position (always from sides who lack a champion FF)
Blighty said he preferred to share the goals around rather than have a high percentage coming from FF - agreed, doesnt mean he doesnt want a specialist FF - just one that was more flexible than Modra.

Back on subject: Would love to see Hentschell put 8Kg and a healthy dose of self belief and become our FF - has all the attributes and is flexible because of his height and mobility.

 

[Jerome]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World

Back on subject: Would love to see Hentschell put 8Kg and a healthy dose of self belief and become our FF - has all the attributes and is flexible because of his height and mobility.

I think its out of Hentschel, Watts and Krueger.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Would love to see Hentschell put 8Kg

Id love to see him put on 8 goals

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Back on subject: Would love to see Hentschell put 8Kg and a healthy dose of self belief and become our FF - has all the attributes and is flexible because of his height and mobility.

I would want him to put on more than 8 kg. At 192 cm / 80 kg he would need somwhere in the range of 15 kg to be a KPP. To me he is a natural forward but more like a 3rd tall instead of KPP. I wthink we will see him start his career as a defender at AFL level and then become a forward when he gets some experience.

I agree we need a strong spine to build a team around. No one is saying that FF is not important what we are saying is that a traditional (one dimentional) FF is a thing of the past and these days players have to be more versatile

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Jerome
I think its out of Hentschel, Watts and Krueger.

I think its between Krueger, Hentschel and Rutten. Watts is a deadset CHF. The way he plays he is the sort of bloke you want at CHF to create opportunities for those around him with strong attack on the footy and ability to split packs.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
I think its between Krueger, Hentschel and Rutten. Watts is a deadset CHF. The way he plays he is the sort of bloke you want at CHF to create opportunities for those around him with strong attack on the footy and ability to split packs.

Agreed
Interesting he has played most of his career as CHB
Has 6cm reach advantage over players of similar height - could still be @197cm the 3rd ruck option

Rutten probably first option for FF as has size and made pretty good fist of first up effort against Freo
Hentschell to start career in backline

Dont know anything about Kreuger, but sounds like CHB
Stiffy youve seen him, is he mobile enough and good enough to play FB

 

[jc67]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
. No one is saying that FF is not important what we are saying is that a traditional (one dimentional) FF is a thing of the past and these days players have to be more versatile

How old are you stiffy?
did you ever see Barry Robran, freddy phillis or tim evens?
to say that the ff pos is dead or has changed is wrong, the real good ones have always played the gap (currently called up ground).
aggreed modra, hodges and the fill in's have been one dimensinal but i would argue that if you have a kpp the quality of modra then you should play him there, where would you play a 25 year old lockett?? leave him out??
The point i am making is the more things change the more they stay the same.
Pagans paddock used to be called the arrow set up 25 years ago,
the running game is replaced with a zone game every 15 years then changes back, (admittly getting tougher and faster).
Im not having a go at you at all please argue, but to me it looks like you are a 25year old that has very little idea of the history of footy. watch the 73 SANFL GF, then the 84, speak to any 70year old former player, read all you can find on old state games. but for christs sake stop behaving like you wrote the book.
PS:I still think Burton would be a sensation at FF.
PSS; we have the same birthday 8th July

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Just believe that football over a 100 years has not really changed

1. Teams with good bigmen and physicality win grandfinals

2. Teams that introduced the plentiful tactics did so only because they didnt have the above.

3. Teams who play long direct football with small crumbers traditionally win Grand Finals.

4. Teams who play short, fancy, complicated football win football matches not Grand Finals.

Look at why Brisbane have won 3 Grand Finals - Established spine of good big men, good FF in Lynch who if he doesnt mark brings the ball to ground.

Also look at teams during season who play short, tactical football for 3 qtrs, only to revert in the last qtr when the pressure is on to bomb it long - and how often do you see it result in a goal!!!

No for all todays jargon, colouful terminology, and gimmicks, football is still played and won the same as always.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Our Next FF

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
He is not a traditional FF (one dimensional) as the likes of Modra. This year Lloyd has played further up the ground at CHF many time with Cupido coming out of FF. He offers a lot more to a team than just mark and kick a goal. I think he is unfairly judged as a FF and not much more. This year he certainly showed that he is just as effective at CHF.

strongly disagree.

Lloyd is still king of 10 kicks and 7 goals. he doesn't get involved enough in general play.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Originally posted by jc67
How old are you stiffy?
did you ever see Barry Robran, freddy phillis or tim evens?
to say that the ff pos is dead or has changed is wrong, the real good ones have always played the gap (currently called up ground).
aggreed modra, hodges and the fill in's have been one dimensinal but i would argue that if you have a kpp the quality of modra then you should play him there, where would you play a 25 year old lockett?? leave him out??
The point i am making is the more things change the more they stay the same.
Pagans paddock used to be called the arrow set up 25 years ago,
the running game is replaced with a zone game every 15 years then changes back, (admittly getting tougher and faster).
Im not having a go at you at all please argue, but to me it looks like you are a 25year old that has very little idea of the history of footy. watch the 73 SANFL GF, then the 84, speak to any 70year old former player, read all you can find on old state games. but for christs sake stop behaving like you wrote the book.
PS:I still think Burton would be a sensation at FF.
PSS; we have the same birthday 8th July

Well said,
I agree Burton could be a sensational FF.
A top FF's job is to convert chances, the very thing we seem to be poor at. His job is not to be involved, visible etc. his job is kick 5-6 goals. end of.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
Well said,
I agree Burton could be a sensational FF.
A top FF's job is to convert chances, the very thing we seem to be poor at. His job is not to be involved, visible etc. his job is kick 5-6 goals. end of.

He would be and is a difficult player to cover.
However I think his value to the team is far superior on the wing.
He was fantastic in that position, defensively and offessively. Plus he gives us around the ground marking power, lacking in our big men.

 

[Watzsup]

Burton at full forward is good now and again but is too much like Modra without the strenght. Great to go up forward for a while. Keep him on the wing and use his skills up and down the ground and rest up forward. the crows had a great forward line in the medical room this year. Just adding Welsh and Stevens adds a bit

 

[macca23]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Our Next FF

Originally posted by Crow-mosone
strongly disagree.

Lloyd is still king of 10 kicks and 7 goals. he doesn't get involved enough in general play.

I'm with you on this one.

Lloyd is a dead set traditional FF, nothing else. He just happens to be a bloody good one. I've watched him closely and most times he leads from the goalsquare.

When he does come further up the ground it's generally so that he can double back behind his FB - a classic FF trick.

I'd love to have him as a FF at the Crows.

 

[tribey]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Our Next FF

Originally posted by macca23
I'm with you on this one.

Lloyd is a dead set traditional FF, nothing else. He just happens to be a bloody good one. I've watched him closely and most times he leads from the goalsquare.

When he does come further up the ground it's generally so that he can double back behind his FB - a classic FF trick.

Yeah I was going to mention Lloyd as the current day exception to the rule but in the wider scheme of things he's a one-off.

The way young footballers are being groomed at junior level and draft camps as athletes first and footballers second means that the 21st Century footballer is far more versatile and is expected to do more than just fill one role.

 

[conVINCEd]

I totally agree with Wayne's-World. I look at Brisbane as the obvious "benchmark" and I see their settled spine of Michael, Leppitsch, Voss, Brown and Lynch.

I'm just trying to picture what our spine could be in a few years.
I'd love to see it looking something like;
Parker, McGregor, Reilly, Watts and then FF - which at this stage I think is unknown due to there being so many players who could end up being there.

Thanks for the info on Jericho, Stiffy. Its hard to guage these things when you live in Queensland. Whats the story with Bock? How has he developed in the past 12 months and where does his future lie?

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by McLeod23
Whats the story with Bock? How has he developed in the past 12 months and where does his future lie?

He's played primarily as a tall/key defender for WWT this past season and personally I've really liked what I've seen of him and I'd love it if he could get an even chance at the Crows.

The vast majority of users on this board don't think he's worth two squirts of cats pi$s however

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by McLeod23
I totally agree with Wayne's-World. I look at Brisbane as the obvious "benchmark" and I see their settled spine of Michael, Leppitsch, Voss, Brown and Lynch.

I'm just trying to picture what our spine could be in a few years.
I'd love to see it looking something like;
Parker, McGregor, Reilly, Watts and then FF - which at this stage I think is unknown due to there being so many players who could end up being there.

Thanks for the info on Jericho, Stiffy. Its hard to guage these things when you live in Queensland. Whats the story with Bock? How has he developed in the past 12 months and where does his future lie?

Right on the money re Brisbane's spine. Brisbane can play the same game in finals they play all year. They may get beaten during the less intensive games during the year by some fancy short chipping game, but when it comes to the pressure of finals, kicking long to their spine becomes a winner because it is a quality spine.

As for our future spine in a few years, I see Mcgregor at CHB, Johncock in the middle, Watts at CHF and Hentschel at FF. FB could be Parker or someone yet to be drafted.

Stiffy is right about Jericho. The AFC are grooming him as a wingman/flanker rather than a KPP.

As for Bock he had a very ordinary first half to the year, but a very good second half, playing for WWT in the SANFL.

I think dyertribe's assessment of him is pretty accurate - he has promise.

 

[lozstar]

Originally posted by topjars
Id love to see him put on 8 goals

haha, just one would do fine