Opinion Our problem is not talent

[Dominance]

If you look at our list and Port Adelaide's list there is no way you can tell me they have more talented players than us. They are fairly even IMO, and if you compare us on paper to other top sides it also looks relatively even based on potential and raw natural talent. So what is it you ask that separate's us from the Top 5 contenders? What is it that makes a bottom 4 side a premiership contender in 2 years? I believe we focus on the detail too much and not macro variables. We are run like a football club and not like a business and Port Adelaide are a good example.

They bring in Kochie, a business man. They run the club like a business and do not employ their mates. Each and every one of their staff comes in with a job to do and is proud of that job. You have world class fitness coaches who ensure the conditioning of the players is optimal, not have one of your players dad's as a boxing coach or vice versa (conflict of interest). You don't hire your mates as assistant coaches, and you most surely don't have football people at the top. You employ business people as your CEO. Now I'm not saying Gale is not doing a good job but how do we know he is as good as a business man as Kochie?

It's not about looking at stats and saying we lost because we lost the contested ball, we lost because "we did not train hard enough in summer", we lost because we had limited finals experience, we lost because we are young. NO, we lost because we don't have the best fitness coaches, we lost because we did not plan our season to have a heavy training block before finals like Port, we lost because our coach focus's on systems and processes like stats which are an OUTCOME not the REASON. We lost because we are arrogant and believe our own hype when the media catches on, and we lost because we are run like a football club and hire "our mates". We should be run like a ruthless business that makes no excuses and from the top down demands we are all aligned. Not be a quasi business/football club that is half way there.

We were absolutely smashed beyond belief on Sunday and if any of you or the club day say "oh but we won 9 in a row", "Oh we are young", "Oh Port are just ahead in their development", YOU are just rationalising. You are making excuses for what has made this club the laughing stock of the competition in the last 30 years. All this stems down to mental weakness, the inability to accept fault and be honest with ourselves and use short term rationalisation to create mental comfort of our clubs standing. We need to become a ruthless aligned business and not a footy club.

 

[Dominance]

And don't ****ing merge this thread. Because I've talked to numerous people who work in prominent positions within various AFL Clubs and the above is the common denominator of success vs failure. You will find the successful clubs are run like businesses first, football clubs second. They do both well.

If we actually got the club to read this post and admit it's right and act on it, we will be truly on the path to success.

 

[Mr Magic]

The difference is talent. This has already been discussed in another previous thread and someone tried to match Deledio with someone when I said he was already matched off with someone else.

Doesn't mean pack our bags and go home, rather we need to get more talent in!

 

[Ned_Flanders]

And don't ******* merge this thread. Because I've talked to numerous people who work in prominent positions within various AFL Clubs and the above is the common denominator of success vs failure. You will find the successful clubs are run like businesses first, football clubs second. They do both well.

If we actually got the club to read this post and admit it's right and act on it, we will be truly on the path to success.

threatening the mods, great way to start a thread

 

[Ned_Flanders]

If you look at our list and Port Adelaide's list there is no way you can tell me they have more talented players than us. They are fairly even IMO, and if you compare us on paper to other top sides it also looks relatively even based on potential and raw natural talent. So what is it you ask that separate's us from the Top 5 contenders? What is it that makes a bottom 4 side a premiership contender in 2 years? I believe we focus on the detail too much and not macro variables. We are run like a football club and not like a business and Port Adelaide are a good example.

They bring in Kochie, a business man. They run the club like a business and do not employ their mates. Each and every one of their staff comes in with a job to do and is proud of that job. You have world class fitness coaches who ensure the conditioning of the players is optimal, not have one of your players dad's as a boxing coach or vice versa (conflict of interest). You don't hire your mates as assistant coaches, and you most surely don't have football people at the top. You employ business people as your CEO. Now I'm not saying Gale is not doing a good job but how do we know he is as good as a business man as Kochie?

It's not about looking at stats and saying we lost because we lost the contested ball, we lost because "we did not train hard enough in summer", we lost because we had limited finals experience, we lost because we are young. NO, we lost because we don't have the best fitness coaches, we lost because we did not plan our season to have a heavy training block before finals like Port, we lost because our coach focus's on systems and processes like stats which are an OUTCOME not the REASON. We lost because we are arrogant and believe our own hype when the media catches on, and we lost because we are run like a football club and hire "our mates". We should be run like a ruthless business that makes no excuses and from the top down demands we are all aligned. Not be a quasi business/football club that is half way there.

We were absolutely smashed beyond belief on Sunday and if any of you or the club day say "oh but we won 9 in a row", "Oh we are young", "Oh Port are just ahead in their development", YOU are just rationalising. You are making excuses for what has made this club the laughing stock of the competition in the last 30 years. All this stems down to mental weakness, the inability to accept fault and be honest with ourselves and use short term rationalisation to create mental comfort of our clubs standing. We need to become a ruthless aligned business and not a footy club.

Port have a better midfield, and better speed. Not many would argue against that. They are also better up forward

As for being professional, March/O'Neil and Gale didn't remove $5m in debt, double our membership, dramatically improve our sponsorship, and significantly upgrade our membership services off the back of chook raffles and pie nights

Get your anger, but you cannot accuse our club of being run by amo's any more. They couldn't have made our recent reversals in off field fortunes if they were

 

[blunt_tiger]

MAybe someone is under rating port?

 

[Calcium Man]

The same fitness guy we offered more a season to come to us??

We didn't pick Vickery because of his dad or vice versa. Ty was considered a top 4 pick possibility and he got to 8. Thats nothing to do with John Vickery.

I agree we need to look outside a bit more for assistants, but we are already doing that with Lenny Hayes.

Brendon Gale is one of the best CEO's in the business, make no mistake its why he was considered for the AFL job. We hired one of the best player managers in the business to look after our contract situations, doesn't matter if he has family connections with the club it just gave us a better inside running.

We lost on the weekend because of lots of reasons, and we need to figure out why.

 

[Calcium Man]

Port have a better midfield, and better speed. Not many would argue against that. They are also better up forward

As for being professional, March/O'Neil and Gale didn't remove $5m in debt, double our membership, dramatically improve our sponsorship, and significantly upgrade our membership services off the back of chook raffles and pie nights

Get your anger, but you cannot accuse our club of being run by amo's any more. They couldn't have made our recent reversals in off field fortunes if they were

I don't think they have a better midfield we've beaten them the last few times for a reason, but i do think they are slightly faster. I also think they are fitter and work harder across the field.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I don't think they have a better midfield we've beaten them the last few times for a reason, but i do think they are slightly faster. I also think they are fitter and work harder across the field.

first rotation I agree is even, its the second they out gun us

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

So by your theory, the reason the Swans beat West Coast in the 2005 Grand Final by 4 points was because their club is "run like businesses first, football clubs second".

And in 2006 West Coast won because they ran their business better than the Swans (only just, 2 points better)

And Freo got to the GF last year because their business model was better than Collingwood's?? Or Sydney Swans'??

It's certainly a contributing factor, and I think you've touched on part of the equation but I don't see it being the definitive answer.

 

[Calcium Man]

first rotation I agree is even, its the second they out gun us

depends who we are putting through there.

Boak = Cotchin - though he has outperformed cotch last two games
Gray = Deledio
Martin = Wingard - Chad kicks more but Dusty gets more around the ground
Miles < Wines - But only just and probably equal if Miles keeps going at the level he has been
Ellis > Polec - Maybe not on the weekend but over the entire year and career Ellis is better performed
Vlastuin < Ebert - right now but Vlas is 2nd year player and has serious potential
Edwards < Harlett - but Edwards finds the consistency of the last half year he goes up a lot
Grigg < Cornes - This is a huge differential
Conca - not really sure who else Port play through there maybe White or Cassisi

So maybe looking at they your right they are slightly ahead. We really need Vlas and Conca to come on next year.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

depends who we are putting through there.

Boak = Cotchin - though he has outperformed cotch last two games
Gray = Deledio
Martin = Wingard - Chad kicks more but Dusty gets more around the ground
Miles < Wines - But only just and probably equal if Miles keeps going at the level he has been
Ellis > Polec - Maybe not on the weekend but over the entire year and career Ellis is better performed
Vlastuin < Ebert - right now but Vlas is 2nd year player and has serious potential
Edwards < Harlett - but Edwards finds the consistency of the last half year he goes up a lot
Grigg < Cornes - This is a huge differential
Conca - not really sure who else Port play through there maybe White or Cassisi

So maybe looking at they your right they are slightly ahead. We really need Vlas and Conca to come on next year.

good comparison, and going with it, it makes the point.

The first 4 are much of a muchness. The bottom 4 are all in Ports favour.

 

[Boggle]

And don't ******* merge this thread. Because I've talked to numerous people who work in prominent positions within various AFL Clubs and the above is the common denominator of success vs failure. You will find the successful clubs are run like businesses first, football clubs second. They do both well.

If we actually got the club to read this post and admit it's right and act on it, we will be truly on the path to success.

If you think that RFC is being run by amateurs, think again.

One of the most significant changes in the last decade is precisely the off field professionalism.

On this, I'd put the RFC board on a par with any other in the league, and I'd rate Benny Gale more highly than Koch.

 

[SpudsLoveChild]

 

[Calcium Man]

good comparison, and going with it, it makes the point.

The first 4 are much of a muchness. The bottom 4 are all in Ports favour.

Ellis is really only one who is better, Conca's best is far better then those he goes against. Vlas can easy get to and past Eberts level.

I think a big part of it is Burgess though, guys like Boak, Gray and Polec have gone to another level since he came back from Liverpool. Maybe its Hinkley but I think Burgess has pushed players like no other in the AFL and they are way ahead of the curve in terms of fitness/sports science. We need to catch them quickly because could you imagine what might happen to Cotch, Martin, Conca and Vlastuin if they were pushed the same way.

The sliding doors factor if he had chosen us over Port would be fascinating from development point of view.

 

[leekok]

Need to be ruthless in the trading period. Nearly every player should be put on notice.The seven cut is a great start. We need to trade out at least two established players for some talent.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Ellis is really only one who is better, Conca's best is far better then those he goes against. Vlas can easy get to and past Eberts level.

I think a big part of it is Burgess though, guys like Boak, Gray and Polec have gone to another level since he came back from Liverpool. Maybe its Hinkley but I think Burgess has pushed players like no other in the AFL and they are way ahead of the curve in terms of fitness/sports science. We need to catch them quickly because could you imagine what might happen to Cotch, Martin, Conca and Vlastuin if they were pushed the same way.

The sliding doors factor if he had chosen us over Port would be fascinating from development point of view.

disagree on Conca, his consistency this season has been non-existant

 

[Groupie_]

Dat culcha

 

[want2spoodge_pettifer]

I dunno, this whole thread is kind of pointless seeing as all Gale has done since coming on board is ensure that the club is a sound business first and foremost..

I understand Sunday hurt, but Gale & Hardwick aren't going to be able to right 30 years of systematic, all-encompassing incompetence from administration, players and coaching staff in four or five years. Remember, this is the first time we made back-to-back finals series in almost 40 years.

People are wusses and crybabies.

 

[Bojangles17]

I think the thread misfires, Benny gales business skills, hello. Multi million dollar profits. Planned the ftf that wiped our debt raing 6m , ask ess how easy that is .....I could go on. I reckon PA have a superior midfield to us. We are undersized for finals football. At half time I looked at the stats, most of our mids had 7-9 possies. We have structural onfield probs that need to be rectified to go forward,
Another grunt mid
Pace
Another Key forward that owns it, not teases with a trick or two per game with nothing in between

 

[WATiger86]

Onfield Leadership.

 

[Tiger71]

If you look at our list and Port Adelaide's list there is no way you can tell me they have more talented players than us. They are fairly even IMO, and if you compare us on paper to other top sides it also looks relatively even based on potential and raw natural talent. So what is it you ask that separate's us from the Top 5 contenders? What is it that makes a bottom 4 side a premiership contender in 2 years? I believe we focus on the detail too much and not macro variables. We are run like a football club and not like a business and Port Adelaide are a good example.

They bring in Kochie, a business man. They run the club like a business and do not employ their mates. Each and every one of their staff comes in with a job to do and is proud of that job. You have world class fitness coaches who ensure the conditioning of the players is optimal, not have one of your players dad's as a boxing coach or vice versa (conflict of interest). You don't hire your mates as assistant coaches, and you most surely don't have football people at the top. You employ business people as your CEO. Now I'm not saying Gale is not doing a good job but how do we know he is as good as a business man as Kochie?

It's not about looking at stats and saying we lost because we lost the contested ball, we lost because "we did not train hard enough in summer", we lost because we had limited finals experience, we lost because we are young. NO, we lost because we don't have the best fitness coaches, we lost because we did not plan our season to have a heavy training block before finals like Port, we lost because our coach focus's on systems and processes like stats which are an OUTCOME not the REASON. We lost because we are arrogant and believe our own hype when the media catches on, and we lost because we are run like a football club and hire "our mates". We should be run like a ruthless business that makes no excuses and from the top down demands we are all aligned. Not be a quasi business/football club that is half way there.

We were absolutely smashed beyond belief on Sunday and if any of you or the club day say "oh but we won 9 in a row", "Oh we are young", "Oh Port are just ahead in their development", YOU are just rationalising. You are making excuses for what has made this club the laughing stock of the competition in the last 30 years. All this stems down to mental weakness, the inability to accept fault and be honest with ourselves and use short term rationalisation to create mental comfort of our clubs standing. We need to become a ruthless aligned business and not a footy club.

Thank you for your 49th post

 

[Calcium Man]

disagree on Conca, his consistency this season has been non-existant

Oh i agree his consistency is awful but his best is exceptional.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Oh i agree his consistency is awful but his best is exceptional.

Best means shit if you don't know when it will happen. You know what you get with White or Casissi

 

[Calcium Man]

Best means shit if you don't know when it will happen. You know what you get with White or Casissi

Be interesting to see how he goes after a pre-season.