Our salary cap situation

[BigCat2]

Here's an article on The Australian: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20537505-23211,00.html

While it's written by Hammo and another, there are some direct quotes from Bowers, which we can say to be a pretty fair indication as to where we're at for the salary cap.

"We've got another tough year to get through, we won't come out of the tunnel until 2008 but we've known this for quite some time," Bowers said.
"It's not a surprise to us, a surprise was Mal Michael retiring, that freed up a bit of pressure, but we'll be feeling it for another year."


There's also this bit: Voss will remain on the Lions' list next year and his payout will come under next season's salary cap...written by Hammo. Is this true?


If so, our cap still looks pretty tight for 2007, but we should be ok in 2008. This'll be good for us, as our youngsters improve and seek bigger contracts if the club wants to keep them. We could have the space in the cap just in case, not necessarily for chasing someone like Riewoldt, if the rumours be true.

 

[irel]

There's also this bit: Voss will remain on the Lions' list next year and his payout will come under next season's salary cap...written by Hammo. Is this true?
QUOTE]


Yes that was the agreement with the AFL. If Voss retires this year his payout salary will not be counted in this year's salary cap. If it did, we would have blown our salary cap and the AFL would had to penalise us, a la Carlton. This way Voss effectively is retired but his name still holds up one spot on our list. So we have 37 effective players on our list next year.

What it means is that Voss can be declared retired next season and a rookie can be elevated almost immediately.
Strategically what would be good if one of Stller, Roe, Harding remains a rookie and is elevated again next year. This way we get an extra pick in the draft.

 

[Snuka]

In some roundabout way, does this explain some of the one year contracts they are offering this year?

 

[BigCat2]

Yes that was the agreement with the AFL. If Voss retires this year his payout salary will not be counted in this year's salary cap. If it did, we would have blown our salary cap and the AFL would had to penalise us, a la Carlton. This way Voss effectively is retired but his name still holds up one spot on our list. So we have 37 effective players on our list next year.

What it means is that Voss can be declared retired next season and a rookie can be elevated almost immediately.
Strategically what would be good if one of Stller, Roe, Harding remains a rookie and is elevated again next year. This way we get an extra pick in the draft.

Sounds good. Stiller would be best choice out of those right? He's young enough and I think has only spent 1 year on our list, so we can keep him on our rookie list without other clubs having the chance to poach him. I'd think Harding and Roe would be chances to be picked up by other clubs if they're available. Elevation to senior list at the end of this year I'd say.

What's the payment for rookies like? If it's a generic standard low about, I can't see Stiller being too happy about it...

 

[Snuka]

Me thinks a little different to Carlton though Irel. Didn't they get done for under the table stuff. I was under the impression that we will go over this year anyway and have to pay a fine, as a result of the crazy injury list.

 

[irel]

What's the payment for rookies like? If it's a generic standard low about, I can't see Stiller being too happy about it...

The club can negotiate a deal with one of them that would be attractive with a two year backended contract with the understanding that Stiller or whoever will be elevated soon as rules permit. Nothing new in this. Essendon did it last year with one of their rookies. Can't recollect now but if I go to their website and look at their list my memory will be jogged.

 

[Grimreepah]

I wouldn't think so. His payout will be whatever the balance owing to him would be for three years service, the balance due because of taking less in the previous years of his contract caused by backending. Probably likely to be around $400K-500K (but that's just a guess), half of which should count under the salary cap as he'll still be on the veterans list. Make sense? Nah, doesn't to me either

Put it this way Vossy signs a 4 year contract worth 2 Million, but the yearly allocation of money is structured so he gets less at the beginning and more at the end. Example (and it is just that):

1st year: $200K
2nd year: $300K
3rd year: $600K
4th year: $900K

He's retiring, so he forgoes the average of $500K in the final year and takes the $400K he's owed as backpay in effect.

This explanation makes sense to me. Also there is no talk of Leppitsch being on the list next year, so I presume he has been fully paid out this year, and this would be the same situation as TFB explained for Voss.

Will be interesting what happens if Chris Scott retires. I believe there is no more room under this year's cap so any remuneration we give him will also have to be under next year's cap, in which case we would have another person occupying a spot on the list without playing (edit - although irel's post suggests that this would not be such a problem)

 

[irel]

Me thinks a little different to Carlton though Irel. Didn't they get done for under the table stuff. I was under the impression that we will go over this year anyway and have to pay a fine, as a result of the crazy injury list.

You are correct with Carlton. I was being a bit overdramatic. Allow me some poetic lisence! Sorry.

As for the injury payment the club has asked for an "circumstances beyond our control" exemption. Not sure if it was granted. However I believe the club may have the facilities to absorbed it within next years salary cap as the excess i believe can be carried over.

 

[BigCat2]

Thanks irel.

What's with us blowing the cap with injury payments? You have to pay blokes extra because they're injured? Or is it something to do with performance based payments?

 

[BigCat2]

Will be interesting what happens if Chris Scott retires. I believe there is no more room under this year's cap so any remuneration we give him will also have to be under next year's cap, in which case we would have another person occupying a spot on the list without playing (edit - although irel's post suggests that this would not be such a problem)

I believe Chris has indicated he'd like to play on next year. Not sure what Leigh or the match committee think though.

 

[irel]

Thanks irel.

What's with us blowing the cap with injury payments? You have to pay blokes extra because they're injured? Or is it something to do with performance based payments?

Players injured in the course of club duty still receive their full entitlements such as match payments for game's they miss etc...

The players replacing them (rookies elevated) also receive match payments for the games played. So in effect the club is paying the 22 players taking the field as well as all those declared injured. A club is allowed $185K within the Salary Cap for this facility. However Brisbane was close to 400K and risking fines if it exceeded the TPP.

 

[BigCat2]

Ahh k, so the extra payment was pretty much for the elevated rookies?

 

[irel]

Ahh k, so the extra payment was pretty much for the elevated rookies?

Partly, but even if we did not elevate any rookies and we still had the same number of games missed as a result of injuries we'd still be close to the 400Ks. Let's say Drummond was injured in game one and missed ten games. Let's say Attard replaced him for those ten games. Attard was not a rookie. The club is paying both Drummond and Attard for the duration of the ten games. However there is a higher cost associated with elevation of rookies because of the increase of the number of players in the higher match payment bracket. Instead of 38 the club now has extra depending on the number elevated.

 

[BigCat2]

Let's say Drummond was injured in game one and missed ten games. Let's say Attard replaced him for those ten games. Attard was not a rookie. The club is paying both Drummond and Attard for the duration of the ten games.

That's gotten me a little confused. Why do we need to pay extra to Attard in that case?

Aren't players paid regardless of whether they play or not?

 

[lion_gooner]

we wouldnt have to worry about this problem if it wasnt for eddie crying to the afl coz collingwood lost consecutive premierships and using brisbanes salary cap as an excuse

 

[irel]

Aren't players paid regardless of whether they play or not?

They are paid a base salary. However match payments, wining bonuses etc...is another matter.

 

[*Danni*]

And let's not forget the winding down of the salary cap concessions, as of next year it is now nil. So we've got players wanting more money, and less of it to give them than in previous years.

 

[Snuka]

And let's not forget the winding down of the salary cap concessions, as of next year it is now nil. So we've got players wanting more money, and less of it to give them than in previous years.

Correct me if I'm wrong Danni, but isn't the cap going up for everyone next year. Not sure how much it is but was under the impression that for Brisbane it would be similar to what we have had with the concessions.

 

[Grimreepah]

Correct me if I'm wrong Danni, but isn't the cap going up for everyone next year.

That's what I thought. 7% is what I heard, and to further increase for the next 4 years after.

 

[campbell]

ys still very tight, no room to move this year.with all the retiemens I thought we should have some money.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,20537505-23211,00.html

Also from that article.Wht the heck have our player facilities become so rundown, and why are we using money from vossy testimonials to pay for it, why aren't we coughing up ourselves.

 

[kimp]

WHy pay for ourselves when we can have a fundraising exercise (which Vossy' fully supports and wants to do)?

Also given our loss this year (and last?) I would say our facilities have waited until we had more cash perhaps - you can't spend what you don't have. They were upgraded a few years ago though I remember, I think this is just installing further useful amenities.

 

[Great_Unknown]

There may be a couple of players moving to the veterans list and if so, that would free up some space. I would have thought Bradshaw (29 end of next season, uncontracted), Notting (ditto), C Scott (31 next season), Lappin (ditto), Johnson (ditto) would be eligable, however I don't know the exact criteria.

 

[campbell]

WHy pay for ourselves when we can have a fundraising exercise (which Vossy' fully supports and wants to do)?

Also given our loss this year (and last?) I would say our facilities have waited until we had more cash perhaps - you can't spend what you don't have. They were upgraded a few years ago though I remember, I think this is just installing further useful amenities.

I was sure that during our heydey,2001-2003, our facilities were touted as being one of the best in the league.It was one of things that irked Sir Eddie. I am just benused that they are in such a bad state so quickly thats all.

Also, I myself, would prefer that this particular fundraising, ie testimonoals for Vossy, actually go to Vossy, or his kis.

we can fundraise if needs be for the rooms.

 

[campbell]

There may be a couple of players moving to the veterans list and if so, that would free up some space. I would have thought Bradshaw (29 end of next season, uncontracted), Notting (ditto), C Scott (31 next season), Lappin (ditto), Johnson (ditto) would be eligable, however I don't know the exact criteria.

Voss and Scott next year.
I assume then Johnno and Nige the year after.

 

[kimp]

I was sure that during our heydey,2001-2003, our facilities were touted as being one of the best in the league.It was one of things that irked Sir Eddie. I am just benused that they are in such a bad state so quickly thats all.

Also, I myself, would prefer that this particular fundraising, ie testimonoals for Vossy, actually go to Vossy, or his kis.

we can fundraise if needs be for the rooms.

Voss WANTS to do it.