Analysis Our set shot kicking accuracy: what is going on and how to improve it?

Yidaki

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It's most likely confidence and it's weird that confidence can also be a team thing. It is though. Each miss places more pressure on the next person.

On Saturday a lot of set shots fell short but I felt that the ball didn't travel far in the air all game. Carlton only got one long goal home too and that was McKay from the 50m line when no-one minded the mark.

JDG only missed one bad set shot on Saturday. At least he nailed the second one (set shot) that hopefully gave him some confidence.

I don't think I've answered your question!
Definitely confidence is playing a role. I wonder though how this can't be corrected during training? It's not like we are struggling to win games as a team or for that matter kick a winning score.

For the season to date our conversion is 106.80 including touched SOG and excluding both rushed behinds and OOF. I’m far from convinced our set shot goal kicking is an issue.

From my perspective the eye test says we’ve had three poor outings this year (v Bulldogs, v Essendon and v Port) and the rest have been average or better. I’d like us to improve of course, but on the balance of things I would say that we’re in the top 8 v the rest of the competition.
In my opinion I think most of our games bar the Bears have been average at best in terms of set shots. We sit with the middle of the pack in terms of conversion percentage at 52%. Conversely Geelong sit at around 60%.


Josh Thomas is our best set shot and Hoskin Elliott is far more reliable than Jamie Elliott.
Thomas sure, but he isn't getting enough marks I50. WHE has been injured too.


Geelong game we missed a lot of easy ones
Exactly. 3.5 in the first. If we made our shots we'd probably be sitting 7-1.

Perhaps practice will help but for some at the club, practicing poor technique will never fix the issue. If players keep practicing running out to the right on their approach or pivoting on their planted foot they can practice until the cows come home. They wont improve.
I reckon some of our guys need some basic instruction of walking straight at the target & kick through with your leg in a straight line. Players are bringing in angles to their goal kicking that simply don't need to be there. Players need to not watch buddy kick for goal.
A Mathew Lloyd or someone equivalent even part time would improve the goal kicking a hell of a lot more than practicing poor technique ever will. Once the technique is correct then yes practice will help.
100% agree with the bolded. Great points.

Happy to be corrected, but I felt like we blew more opportunities in general play and because we were so badly beaten up at the contest set shot conversion didn’t seem a factor.
As I said in the above, 3.5 in the first quarter. I think if we had been more accurate in the first we'd be sitting pretty right now.

Felt we blew both, for memory both Grundy and Pendles missed very easy set shots. Given how good Geelong look its impressive we blew so many easy chances and still could have won
Spot on nahnah.
 

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#27
The game doesn't really suit set shot kicks for goal anymore. At any time the ball is only a kick and a half away from play and if the ball is in defense you run it back the whole field and take a mark 25 metres out trying to catch your breath and line up for goal. Go to your local park and try it. Best of luck!

Collingwood has always been evolving the game making it quicker. It's no shock that our goal kicking has always been average. Whoever is lining up for a kick is exhausted

When they kick set shots 10 minutes before the game has started they haven't run up and down the field for 10 minutes beforehand. I wouldn't read too much into their accuracy or lack thereof during these warmup shots
 

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#28
The game doesn't really suit set shot kicks for goal anymore. At any time the ball is only a kick and a half away from play and if the ball is in defense you run it back the whole field and take a mark 25 metres out trying to catch your breath and line up for goal. Go to your local park and try it. Best of luck!

Collingwood has always been evolving the game making it quicker. It's no shock that our goal kicking has always been average. Whoever is lining up for a kick is exhausted

When they kick set shots 10 minutes before the game has started they haven't run up and down the field for 10 minutes beforehand. I wouldn't read too much into their accuracy or lack thereof during these warmup shots
I think you are spot on, this combined with a bit of low confidence exacerbate the issue, and it becomes a vicious cycle. I guess as a team, we need a lift in confidence which hopefully will happen as the season progresses.

Weren't we better at kicking the second half of last year? JDG was a sure shot then weren't he?
 

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#29
De Goey has kicked 19.14
Stephenson 13.8
Elliot 12.5
Mihocek 11.7
Cox 9.6
Thomas 8.4


Overall it's not a disaster, but De Goey in particular has made a mess of lots of important shots in the past month.
I think it’s more that they are getable goals, we are getting set shots in good areas.
 

Robroy22

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#30
The game doesn't really suit set shot kicks for goal anymore. At any time the ball is only a kick and a half away from play and if the ball is in defense you run it back the whole field and take a mark 25 metres out trying to catch your breath and line up for goal. Go to your local park and try it. Best of luck!

Collingwood has always been evolving the game making it quicker. It's no shock that our goal kicking has always been average. Whoever is lining up for a kick is exhausted

When they kick set shots 10 minutes before the game has started they haven't run up and down the field for 10 minutes beforehand. I wouldn't read too much into their accuracy or lack thereof during these warmup shots



Patrick said the same thing at a local sportsman's night last week. Training is unable to fully replicate the fatigue factor that comes onto each player when they're lining up for set shots these days. That's why so many prefer to snap, they feel more "in synch" with their movements when it's in general play. They're not used to being still for too long and it upsets their gyros!
 

sr36

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#31
Most of them are deadly - Elliott, WHE, Mihocek, Thomas.
Degoey is going through a rough patch - needs to get a consistent technique for shots inside 45 metres - he's all over the shop at the moment. He had one last year, but he's lost it for a bit.
Stepho, we'll have to wait for a couple of years I think. the issue with him is that his current range isn't very far - he looks stretched at about 45 metres. So all of his hit up lead shots for goal are at the edge of his range and thus he's having to go flat out at them and miskicking a fair few of them.
Brown shouldn't be an ongoing issue. He's a really neat kick, just needs to slot a couple and his confidence will go up.
 
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#32
I don't see a problem. The question to be asked is are our forwards poor set shots? And the answer is clearly no. The fact that we are currently missing more set shots than we'd like probably won't continue. We were one of the most accurate sides last season.

The only three forwards I have some concern about are: Reid (won't be playing forward for long), Brown (low volume shots), De Goey (the only real worry. He's shown an ability to be better, so hopefully will regain touch)

Also our overall accuracy is fine (largely helped by being near top for goals inside 15m) and we are the 2nd highest scoring team in the comp.
 
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#34
I think you are spot on, this combined with a bit of low confidence exacerbate the issue, and it becomes a vicious cycle. I guess as a team, we need a lift in confidence which hopefully will happen as the season progresses.

Weren't we better at kicking the second half of last year? JDG was a sure shot then weren't he?
There will always be exceptions to the rule and it's not to say that it's impossible. Would also love to look at the build up play before those goals.

My bold assumption would be if a mark is the result of a counter attack the likelihood of converting a set shot will decrease versus if the mark was taken after an extended period of the ball locked in our forward half

The best result for a counter attack is that the ball is delivered as close to the goal square as possible, preferably in a position where it's easier to play on, which is something that we are seeing constantly these days.
 
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#36
This is an age old problem ...

We were similarly bad around 2009 - 2012. Travis Cloke was a serial offender. In 2009 he kicked 22 goals 26 behinds. In 2010 he kicked 38 goals 40 behinds. It wasn’t a big deal at the time because our forward defence was so strong, so a missed set shot simply became a 7 point play (and a miss again made it an 8 point play, etc). I remember Mick week after week at his pressers having to trot out “players don’t deliberately miss set shots”. The year Chris Dawes got traded he had kicked 16 goals 20 behinds.

There were also times where Anthony Rocca had the yips ... you’d put your house on him nailing a shot 60 meters out on the boundary, but 30 meters out directly in front he would just as reliably miss.

I’m inclined to agree with Kirby that it’s a confidence / team confidence thing.

But if JDG really is the alpha male that Buckley claims he is, then why is he our biggest offender ATM?
 

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#39
Definitely confidence is playing a role. I wonder though how this can't be corrected during training? It's not like we are struggling to win games as a team or for that matter kick a winning score.
In my opinion I think most of our games bar the Bears have been average at best in terms of set shots. We sit with the middle of the pack in terms of conversion percentage at 52%. Conversely Geelong sit at around 60%.

Thomas sure, but he isn't getting enough marks I50. WHE has been injured too.

Exactly. 3.5 in the first. If we made our shots we'd probably be sitting 7-1.
100% agree with the bolded. Great points.

As I said in the above, 3.5 in the first quarter. I think if we had been more accurate in the first we'd be sitting pretty right now.

Spot on nahnah.
Speaking on the points of mine quoted.

The figure of 52% lacks context because it isn’t specific to the thread and no doubt includes both rushed behinds (not thread relevant) and OOF (cannot be tracked by us). You mentioned we kicked 3.5 in Q1 v Geelong so my follow up to that is of the 5 behinds how many were set shot misses? If we kicked 3.1 for the quarter from set shots, which we can’t be sure of without watching a replay, then it’s a moot point. Nahnah was right the Grundy and Pendles ones stood out to me, but if we kicked 6.2 for the rest of the match we’re still going at 60%...

Like I said by eye we’re about average to slightly above which could do with improving, but I think a lot of it boils down to the opposition as much as anything. The more competitive the contest the harder the set shots and the less likely you are to convert at a high %. I’m on the fence with it so unless we get hard data to support your POV I can’t buy in. Good discussion point though!

Edit: by hard data I mean a breakdown of where we’ve missed from and how it rates v the rest of the competition.

For instance if 90% of our set shots have been taken in the corridor (point post to point post) and we’re converting at just over 50% I’m on board, but if 90% of our set shots are on angles greater than 60% then I’d say it’s a non issue. I know there’s plenty amongst us that aren’t data heads, but for me this is one where it means a bit and 90% is a generalisation.
 
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#41
I think Elliott has now fallen behind Thomas in set shots.
Elliott of the Jamie type or the Will Hoskin type?

WHE has always been accurate - he just hasn’t played enough this year to create a significant body of data (3 games, 4 goals, 1 behind)

Jamie feels like a new player in our list who we’re getting to know for the first time. Sure, he plays in the forward line and kicks goals like the old Jamie, but that’s where the similarity ends. He’s playing a lot shorter than he used to.
 

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#42
Get mason Cox to teach them simplicity.

Always come back to a simple thing: practice.

Buckley, Rocca both fine kicks. They can teach.

But practice, practice, practice.
Buckley's kicking around the ground was obviously sensational, but I don't think he was all that great with set shots for goal. At least that's how I remember it, though I don't know if there are any figures out there that prove or disprove that idea.
 
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Usually pretty accurate, but yet to prove himself this year (due to injury). Will wait until he gets a few more games under his belt this year.

Speaking on the points of mine quoted.

The figure of 52% lacks context because it isn’t specific to the thread and no doubt includes both rushed behinds (not thread relevant) and OOF (cannot be tracked by us). You mentioned we kicked 3.5 in Q1 v Geelong so my follow up to that is of the 5 behinds how many were set shot misses? If we kicked 3.1 for the quarter from set shots, which we can’t be sure of without watching a replay, then it’s a moot point. Nahnah was right the Grundy and Pendles ones stood out to me, but if we kicked 6.2 for the rest of the match we’re still going at 60%...

Like I said by eye we’re about average to slightly above which could do with improving, but I think a lot of it boils down to the opposition as much as anything. The more competitive the contest the harder the set shots and the less likely you are to convert at a high %. I’m on the fence with it so unless we get hard data to support your POV I can’t buy in. Good discussion point though!

Edit: by hard data I mean a breakdown of where we’ve missed from and how it rates v the rest of the competition.

For instance if 90% of our set shots have been taken in the corridor (point post to point post) and we’re converting at just over 50% I’m on board, but if 90% of our set shots are on angles greater than 60% then I’d say it’s a non issue. I know there’s plenty amongst us that aren’t data heads, but for me this is one where it means a bit and 90% is a generalisation.
I would assume the 52% is solely based off set shots, but I will have to look into it more deeply. It sounded about right.

I can't remember for sure, but I do believe we were inaccurate in front of goal during the Geelong game. I'm pretty sure this included some gimmes in the first which likely added to the 3.5.

I do agree with you; we are about average in set shot accuracy. I made the thread because I feel average isn't good enough. It cost us in the GF and has nearly cost us this year in some of the tighter games. Sure, most teams miss shots, but it is frustrating that we are missing the easier ones. I'm not bothered by the difficult set shots (as you said).

You make a good point about hard data. I've been looking for it, but it has been difficult to find! I will keep looking and if I have enough time, will do some number crunching. I'm sure I can work it out myself. It's only been 8 rounds.
 

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#44
Usually pretty accurate, but yet to prove himself this year (due to injury). Will wait until he gets a few more games under his belt this year.



I would assume the 52% is solely based off set shots, but I will have to look into it more deeply. It sounded about right.

I can't remember for sure, but I do believe we were inaccurate in front of goal during the Geelong game. I'm pretty sure this included some gimmes in the first which likely added to the 3.5.

I do agree with you; we are about average in set shot accuracy. I made the thread because I feel average isn't good enough. It cost us in the GF and has nearly cost us this year in some of the tighter games. Sure, most teams miss shots, but it is frustrating that we are missing the easier ones. I'm not bothered by the difficult set shots (as you said).

You make a good point about hard data. I've been looking for it, but it has been difficult to find! I will keep looking and if I have enough time, will do some number crunching. I'm sure I can work it out myself. It's only been 8 rounds.
The lack of easily available data is a frustration of mine. It makes these types of discussions very grey so it’d be great to look through if you can dig it up!
 
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#46
Player by player, we have a problem.
When De Goey is our full forward, we are relying on a man without belief in his set shots. He rushes them because he lacks confidence to really concentrate on what he is doing. His snap shots are the reverse. He is very good. The statistics on these activities need to be viewed separately. This is a job for the club shrinks.
Thomas is not getting the shots he had last year. He couldn't miss then and he got his shots away in close quarters. He has had a lot smothered this year, perhaps bad luck, but perhaps he has been worked out. Probably not a problem.
Hoskin-Elliott has not played a lot of games, and has not had a lot of kicks. Probably still where he was last year. I.e. not a problem
Elliott can be relied upon, as long as he doesn't have to kick too far. Injured again.
Stephenson seems to be stab kicking for goal, unlike last year. He is not kicking full bore, and has failed to make distances that came readily to him last year. Work to be done.
Cox is kicking further, but a little less accurately than last year. Not a problem.
Reid is none too accurate, and has lost some of the penetration his kicking was once famous for.
Pendlebury has fewer shots than he once did, and is not vary accurate anymore.
Beams has not missed anything he should have kicked, but has not had a lot of shots.
Brown has succumbed to pressure a few times. One would hope that he will get confident and start to score from set shots when he gets them, but the signs so far have not been great.
Sidebottom like Pendlebury is not getting a lot of shots, and is only reasonably accurate.
Phillips has disappointed quite a few times at important moments, mostly with goal attempts on the run without a lot of pressure. A problem.
Grundy doesn't get many shots, but is good with what he gets.
Treloar shouldn't be allowed to go for goals on the run. He misses most of them, and seems unable to see players close in making good position. A problem.
 
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#47
Player by player, we have a problem.
When De Goey is our full forward, we are relying on a man without belief in his set shots. He rushes them because he lacks confidence to really concentrate on what he is doing. His snap shots are the reverse. He is very good. The statistics on these activities need to be viewed separately. This is a job for the club shrinks.
Thomas is not getting the shots he had last year. He couldn't miss then and he got his shots away in close quarters. He has had a lot smothered this year, perhaps bad luck, but perhaps he has been worked out. Probably not a problem.
Hoskin-Elliott has not played a lot of games, and has not had a lot of kicks. Probably still where he was last year. I.e. not a problem
Elliott can be relied upon, as long as he doesn't have to kick too far. Injured again.
Stephenson seems to be stab kicking for goal, unlike last year. He is not kicking full bore, and has failed to make distances that came readily to him last year. Work to be done.
Cox is kicking further, but a little less accurately than last year. Not a problem.
Reid is none too accurate, and has lost some of the penetration his kicking was once famous for.
Pendlebury has fewer shots than he once did, and is not vary accurate anymore.
Beams has not missed anything he should have kicked, but has not had a lot of shots.
Brown has succumbed to pressure a few times. One would hope that he will get confident and start to score from set shots when he gets them, but the signs so far have not been great.
Sidebottom like Pendlebury is not getting a lot of shots, and is only reasonably accurate.
Phillips has disappointed quite a few times at important moments, mostly with goal attempts on the run without a lot of pressure. A problem.
Grundy doesn't get many shots, but is good with what he gets.
Treloar shouldn't be allowed to go for goals on the run. He misses most of them, and seems unable to see players close in making good position. A problem.
Well let’s just hope we win some games.

Just get the ball through the big sticks.
 
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