Toast Our Trading

[MF]

I was just reading a few posts by St Kilda supporters venting their frustrations at some of their players and the name Dempster came up.

It's been acknowledged many times before how well we've done to trade in the players we have but it got me thinking about the players we've let go as well.

The one's that sprung to mind were Dempster, Buchanan, Schneider and Hall.

Looking back... we let go of Dempster and Buchanan at the best possible times. Both of them still had trade value but haven't done much since. Schneider and Hall have given value to their respective clubs but I doubt they would have done so well had they stayed with us.

How do others see these trades a few years on?

 

[SM]

Also Jolly who looks to be suffering footy karma with a bung knee.

 

[MF]

I completely forgot about Jolly.

 

[SM]

Good riddance.

 

[Riders of Rohan]

Hmm, both Dempster and Schneider netted us Meredith.
Hall and Buchanen ended up allowing us to get part of McGlynn and Kennedy.
Jolly got us Jetta and part of McGlynn and Kennedy.

The first one was a bit of a flop but I'll toast the other two

 

[Swans120]

I was ropeable when Jolly bailed on us but considering it partially helped us bring in Mummy, I couldn't give a **** about him anymore. Will be forever grateful to all those who helped win the '05 flag however.

Sydney's trading strategy since Roosy came in has been one of supreme common-sense thinking. Trading draft picks for ready made middle aged players during the early and middle 2000's allowed us to stay in the 8 for so long and win games consistently. Considering there are very few spots in the draft that have historcally been consistent picks where great players are brought in, it made sense to use any and all of them as tradeable commodities, especially since other clubs have been and still are considering draft picks the ultimate prize at the end of the season.

 

[grimlock]

Barry Hall and Darren Jolly are slightly different cases, in normal circumstances we would have kept them but for well-known reasons now they both have left the club. The Hall trade was fair given his age and the Jolly trade was probably a little on the weak side at the time but given he wanted to go to Collingwood that restricted our bargaining power a lot.

Dempster was basically the steak knives thrown in with the Schneider deal. Lyon put forward a compelling case that he would have a better chance of regular football at St Kilda than at Sydney so you can't blame the kid, who was in and out of the side, for jumping at the chance. The Schneider situation is an interesting one. Up until a few weeks ago I've always thought he was pushed out of the club but in his appearance of Channel TEN/ONE's show One Week At A Time, the way he described the whole process sounded more like he had a choice and eventually elected for the Saints. He's definitely improved since the trade and has been one of the few shining lights for them this year.

I couldn't believe the return on the Buchanan trade from two years ago given his awful form both in the seniors and reserves in the past 2 years. It was a complex trade involving Seaby and Staker and Dalziell but in the wash-up it was basically Buchanan for the Lions second rounder - good value given Buchanan's clear downward trajectory in form (to be fair he was struggling with injuries too). With Monty languishing in the reserves at the bottom club at the moment, you'd have to conclude it hasn't gone well for him or the Lions.

Going a little further back, one that has stung a little is the Scott Stevens trade. Stevens + Pick 31 to Crows for Picks 29 and 45. I believe that 2 pick upgrade managed to let us gazump Adelaide for Tim Schmidt although that hasn't turned out well either. Stevens has developed into a very handy utility for Adelaide and represents great value for them for Pick 45.

The most one-sided trade in recent memory was Andrew Schauble and pick #34 for Mark Kinnear. Schauble went on to win our B&F in his first year and Kinnear walked out on the Magpies soon after joining them. A little consolation in that they drafted Leon Davis with #34.

 

[BarneyBent]

I completely forgot about Jolly.

Who?

6 shit-eating grins

 

[liz]

I couldn't believe the return on the Buchanan trade from two years ago given his awful form both in the seniors and reserves in the past 2 years. It was a complex trade involving Seaby and Staker and Dalziell but in the wash-up it was basically Buchanan for the Lions second rounder - good value given Buchanan's clear downward trajectory in form (to be fair he was struggling with injuries too). With Monty languishing in the reserves at the bottom club at the moment, you'd have to conclude it hasn't gone well for him or the Lions.

If we got pick 28 for Buchanan then we essentially gave up pick 22 for Seaby and 39, and Brisbane got Staker for Dalziell. I think you need to look at it as a single three club trade to make sense of it.

 

[Riders of Rohan]

Didn't we just upgrade our 3rd round pick with Buchanen? We sent over 46 and Buch and they gave us 39, which we used on Kennedy/McGlynn.

 

[grimlock]

I didn't recall the deal being so complex but after reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_AFL_Draft it looks like a two stage deal.

First step
In: Seaby, #28, 55
Out: Buchanan, #22, #118

then we traded Hall for #47 which was on-traded to the Lions for their #39 which must have been pre-agreed to by both clubs.

If you include all the deals, the net result is:
In: Kennedy, McGlynn, Mumford, Seaby, #14, #55
Out: Buchanan, Hall, Jolly, #22, #70, #118

#14 we drafted Jetta
#55 we drafted TDL
#22 Eagles drafted Gerrick Weedon
#70 Hawks promoted Matthew Suckling from their rookie list
#118 not used

4 regular first teamers + 2 fringe players for a out-of-favour midfielder, an angry old man (TIC) and a homesick ruckman with #22 the only pick we would have used.

This is how you trade! In particular the Mummy for #28 deal is pure daylight robbery, although at the time many of us, me included, thought we had paid too much for him.

 

[swansfan51]

Our trading is as good as our 1st round drafting is bad:

2003 - Josh Willoughby (0 games)
2004 - Traded for Darren "cost us a grand final" Jolly (grudgingly - decent result)
2005 - Traded for Ted Richards (decent result)
2006 - Daniel O'Keefe (0 games)
2007 - Patrick Veszpremi (11 games)
2008 - Lewis Johnston (0 games)
2009 - Too early to call
2010 - Too early to call

We should definitely trade our first round pick this year based on past history, even trading Veszpremi seems to have worked out. Any suggestions who we should trade our pick for

 

[BarneyBent]

^^^ Far too early to call on Johnston as well. KPP, foot injury sat him out for his entire first year, spent last year playing underweight and just trying to get some touch back, and now according to Longmire he's very close to selection.

 

[Swans120]

Our trading is as good as our 1st round drafting is bad:

2003 - Josh Willoughby (0 games)
2004 - Traded for Darren "cost us a grand final" Jolly (grudgingly - decent result)
2005 - Traded for Ted Richards (decent result)
2006 - Daniel O'Keefe (0 games)
2007 - Patrick Veszpremi (11 games)
2008 - Lewis Johnston (0 games)
2009 - Too early to call
2010 - Too early to call

We should definitely trade our first round pick this year based on past history, even trading Veszpremi seems to have worked out. Any suggestions who we should trade our pick for

The first round pick will almost certainly have to be used on Tom Mitchell won't it? As he's a father-son pick, the other clubs will force us to use our first selection for him by making whoever picks one spot ahead of us put in a bid for him.

Grim or liz? Is that correct? Or if we did trade our first rounder away, could we just do the same as above with our next pick considering that would be our first actual pick?

 

[grimlock]

The first round pick will almost certainly have to be used on Tom Mitchell won't it? As he's a father-son pick, the other clubs will force us to use our first selection for him by making whoever picks one spot ahead of us put in a bid for him.

Grim or liz? Is that correct? Or if we did trade our first rounder away, could we just do the same as above with our next pick considering that would be our first actual pick?

Father/son bidding happens before trade week so that loophole is definitely not available to us or any other club. You also can't trade in another lower first rounder and elect to use that one either.

It's almost certain that some club will bid their first rounder to ensure we utilise ours for young Thomas. Given we bid for Libba jnr, I'm sure the Dogs will be more than delighted to reciprocate at the end of this year

 

[Swans120]

Yeh thought so.

I think it's become an unwritten law (since the father-son pick rules were changed a few years ago) that whoever has the pick directly before the club wanting to pick a player as a father-son choice puts in a bid to make sure that club uses as high a pick as possible.

But on the subject of trading picks, I wouldn't be surprised if we just kept stocking up in the later rounds. I mean look at who we've picked up at pick 30 or lower recently: Dan Hannebery, Sam Reid, Luke Parker, TDL, Alex Johnson and Byron Sumner. Not too shabby a haul at all. Our recruiting boys can certainly draft for great value.

So unless a player who fits our needs exactly bobs up (I'm struggling to think of desperate needs for us atm really), I'd expect us to not be hugely eager to get rid of our picks.

 

[Danair]

The first round pick will almost certainly have to be used on Tom Mitchell won't it? As he's a father-son pick, the other clubs will force us to use our first selection for him by making whoever picks one spot ahead of us put in a bid for him.

Grim or liz? Is that correct? Or if we did trade our first rounder away, could we just do the same as above with our next pick considering that would be our first actual pick?

I was thinking about this exact situation a couple days ago!

Has anybody heard any news on Tom?
Has he gotten over his injury and started playing in WA again?

 

[grimlock]

They've mentioned a few times that we've had 20 players come into the club over the past 2 years so they may look towards only using the minimum 2 picks and a rookie upgrade just to provide a little bit of balance. Especially with GWS's plethora of high picks in this coming draft.

 

[swansfan51]

I was thinking about this exact situation a couple days ago!

Has anybody heard any news on Tom?
Has he gotten over his injury and started playing in WA again?

Still not right yet but is making gradual progress

 

[Danair]

Still not right yet but is making gradual progress

Thanks mate

Do you think he'll be right for the U/18 championship?

 

[RUNVS]

I was thinking about this exact situation a couple days ago!

Has anybody heard any news on Tom?
Has he gotten over his injury and started playing in WA again?

I was thinking that as well. Tom hasn't played any football in a year and there is the real possibility he won't be playing in the U-18 Championships. Given his injuries it is possible that another club won't force us to use our first round draft pick to get him.

 

[swansfan51]

Thanks mate

Do you think he'll be right for the U/18 championship?

Too early to give up completely but at this stage he is absolutely no chance. They had the state 18s trial game on Saturday

 

[RUNVS]

Too early to give up completely but at this stage he is absolutely no chance. They had the state 18s trial game on Saturday

I am actually getting a bit worried as a year is a very long time to have a injury. I am just concerned that Tom Mitchell will turn into a Ryan Fitzgerald and be the type who has all the talent in the world but a body that simply isn't capable of playing in the AFL.

 

[SM]

I am actually getting a bit worried as a year is a very long time to have a injury. I am just concerned that Tom Mitchell will turn into a Ryan Fitzgerald and be the type who has all the talent in the world but a body that simply isn't capable of playing in the AFL.

And then go on Big Brother? I think he's a few years late with that plan.

 

[SOPH_CROSS]

waahhhh

I miss Snides more and more everyday :[