Outcoached...

[hbk_aus]

Really good tough win on Friday night, but I must say that i felt Bomber was tactically outcoached by Sheedy. Before I get attacked for being negative and anti-Thompson, can i say that he has done a super job this year with what he has done so far.

But how the hell does it take us a quarter and a half to find somebody to match up on a guy like Welsh who is just an honest battler who has been plonked down forward as a surprise tactic? And what does Bomber mean when he says that they didnt know what to do with Ling once Hird went down, dont they have a plan B for these situations? (They finally remembered in the last quarter that Ling is a useful forward and put him there).

As i said, not trying to be negative, just offering the opinion that Bomber still gets tactically outcoached a lot, but has done a great job in turning around our fortunes this year.

 

[CF]

I agree with you. The move of putting Welsh at FF as a defensive forward really through our backline structure into disarray. After Harley had successfully negated him then moved Tenace on him in the name of bench rotations and Welsh had a purple patch and Tenace got another cross off all his knockers. Wasn't Tenaces fault as he isn't really the type player to hold FB successfully.

I wouldn't be surprised if malthouse tries it out as well. But Bomber got a lesson off the old master Friday night that is for sure.

 

[re cat]

I know Hird went but to have Lingy on Fletcher was a good one. Made him look like a fool. Can we apply the "Towel" for this one?

 

[hbk_aus]

I know Hird went but to have Lingy on Fletcher was a good one. Made him look like a fool. Can we apply the "Towel" for this one?

Maybe not, in the Dirty Ones defence, he was injured i think, mobility wasnt all there.

 

[sarah.13]

I agree with you. The move of putting Welsh at FF as a defensive forward really through our backline structure into disarray. After Harley had successfully negated him then moved Tenace on him in the name of bench rotations and Welsh had a purple patch and Tenace got another cross off all his knockers. Wasn't Tenaces fault as he isn't really the type player to hold FB successfully.

I wouldn't be surprised if malthouse tries it out as well. But Bomber got a lesson off the old master Friday night that is for sure.

Agree with you Catman &HBK Harley had Welsh completely covered and the move of Tenace was doomed. He is a running link player as he showed to good effect in the 2 half.
Another tactical error was moving Scarlett onto Lucas for a short period in the 2Qtr when Egan had him covered.
Harley confirmed this in his post match interview when he commented that they had mucked around with too many rotations in the first half.

 

[hbk_aus]

Agree with you Catman &HBK Harley had Welsh completely covered and the move of Tenace was doomed. He is a running link player as he showed to good effect in the 2 half.
Another tactical error was moving Scarlett onto Lucas for a short period in the 2Qtr when Egan had him covered.
Harley confirmed this in his post match interview when he commented that they had mucked around with too many rotations in the first half.

I wonder if that is the players that are given the licence to rotate, or does it come from the coaches box?

 

[Peel Supporter]

As an outsider, what future does Tenace have, given the strength of the Cats midfield, it's not back! Can he go forward?

 

[cat in sydney]

I wonder if that is the players that are gicen the licence to rotate, or does it come from the coaches box?

That's actually an interesting point. If things are working (as they were with Harley on Welsh and Egan on Lucas), why would Bomber change them? Maybe these players (Harley and Egan) were getting a bit tired, and the players themselves altered the match-ups for a bit of a rest.
That's at least possible with what they've been saying recently with the players taking on more leadership/decision-making etc.

 

[hbk_aus]

As an outsider, what future does Tenace have, given the strength of the Cats midfield, it's not back! Can he go forward?

See the 4 page thread on Tenace on our board! You will see that most of us dont believe he is goon enough to play in the one's at present.

 

[DanA]

As an outsider, what future does Tenace have, given the strength of the Cats midfield, it's not back! Can he go forward?

I think he has a future as a backmen, he clearly needs to work on a few areas of his game but he is improving as a player. He is starting to get more of the ball and is getting it in damaging places which he wasn't doing a year ago.


We were definately outcoached. I think Bomber is a fantastic coach strategically but absolutely sucks tactically. Always comes in with a good strategic plan but is slow to make changes and often leaves me scratching my head with gameday tactics.

 

[The Cork Soaker]

I think he has a future as a backmen, he clearly needs to work on a few areas of his game but he is improving as a player. He is starting to get more of the ball and is getting it in damaging places which he wasn't doing a year ago.


We were definately outcoached. I think Bomber is a fantastic coach strategically but absolutely sucks tactically. Always comes in with a good strategic plan but is slow to make changes and often leaves me scratching my head with gameday tactics.

I don't know that you can lay the blame of tactics and stategy squarely on the shoulders of Thompson. In this modern era these desicions are made collectively through coaching staff and match committee, i would think. If you saw Worsfold on the couch last week you could see from every answer he gave about the timing ofcousins' return to whether they would want Fevola, he checked each response with reference to match committe and coaching staff first and descion making is determined by them. I doubt Geelong would much different in this department, and given the findings of the review last year it seemed that Thompson was guilty of taking on too much responsibility and this was seen as a negative. Seems to me things are going along just fine at the moment and Thompson proved to me that he can coach well, makes a difference when some players are actully playing in position in which they excell though, i.e. Ling, Corey, Ablett

 

[DanA]

I don't know that you can lay the blame of tactics and stategy squarely on the shoulders of Thompson. In this modern era these desicions are made collectively through coaching staff and match committee, i would think. If you saw Worsfold on the couch last week you could see from every answer he gave about the timing ofcousins' return to whether they would want Fevola, he checked each response with reference to match committe and coaching staff first and descion making is determined by them. I doubt Geelong would much different in this department, and given the findings of the review last year it seemed that Thompson was guilty of taking on too much responsibility and this was seen as a negative. Seems to me things are going along just fine at the moment and Thompson proved to me that he can coach well, makes a difference when some players are actully playing in position in which they excell though, i.e. Ling, Corey, Ablett

I would suggest that Thompson is pretty much soley responsible for game day matchups and playing style. Having Welsh one out with Tenace in my eyes was Sheeds tactically getting the better of Bomber. Lots of little tricks by Sheeds caught Bomber off gaurd in the first half.

Trading for Fevola or playing Cousins is a whole different kettle of fish. It has much bigger implication on the football club than just the on feild performance.

 

[The Cork Soaker]

Got me beat why the have all those other hangers on in the box then? maybe they make great coffee and know which hot dog stand has the shortest que hey.

 

[DanA]

Got me beat why the have all those other hangers on in the box then? maybe they make great coffee and know which hot dog stand has the shortest que hey.

That's one possibility. The other is they collect specific information and make it available to the coach when needed, offering a few suggestions to the coach who ultimate controls what happens.

 

[sarah.13]

That's one possibility. The other is they collect specific information and make it available to the coach when needed, offering a few suggestions to the coach who ultimate controls what happens.

That sounds like what an assistant coach might do!

 

[DanA]

That sounds like what an assistant coach might do!

What do mean? Are you saying
A. Assitant coaches compile information?
B. Assistant coaches offer suggestions when needed?
C. Assitant coaches ultimately control what happens?
D. Or all of the above?

 

[sarah.13]

What do mean? Are you saying
A. Assitant coaches compile information?
B. Assistant coaches offer suggestions when needed?
C. Assitant coaches ultimately control what happens?
D. Or all of the above?

A + B. I was agreeing with you Dan.

 

[bombersmad75]

Really good tough win on Friday night, but I must say that i felt Bomber was tactically outcoached by Sheedy. Before I get attacked for being negative and anti-Thompson, can i say that he has done a super job this year with what he has done so far.

But how the hell does it take us a quarter and a half to find somebody to match up on a guy like Welsh who is just an honest battler who has been plonked down forward as a surprise tactic? And what does Bomber mean when he says that they didnt know what to do with Ling once Hird went down, dont they have a plan B for these situations? (They finally remembered in the last quarter that Ling is a useful forward and put him there).

As i said, not trying to be negative, just offering the opinion that Bomber still gets tactically outcoached a lot, but has done a great job in turning around our fortunes this year.

Does not matter that he was outcoached your team is awesome and just needs to be guided rather than coached.

 

[Bubbles DeVere]

I think bomber gets outcoached most of the time, it is just fortunate that this year the boys are playing well enough to still win.

 

[Tonycam*]

So do you actually think Bomber has improved his coaching on last year or do you think thats its the likes of Balme and co that has put the boys in the right direction

 

[azyboy]

I think you will find the role of an assistant coach isn't much different to the role of a senior coach.

 

[azyboy]

I think you will find the role of an assistant coach isn't much different to the role of a senior coach.

Further to the above point... granted assistants don't have the media spotlight ala senior coaches however there has been a real shift to empowering assistant coaches. David Parkin pioneered this largely when Wayne Brittain effectively "coached" Carlton a year or two before Parkin's departure. The smarter coaches of today are surrounding themselves with good people whom can make their job a lot easier and make them look good in the process. Defensive coaches, midfield coaches and forward coaches effectively "coach" those prospective positions, while SC pulls it all together. The good assistants are those that show they can coach midfield and then move to the forward group. That is why doing an apprenticeship is an invaluable tool in todays coaching game and why the notion that Voss and co can step straight into a senior role is flawed.

 

[DanA]

So do you actually think Bomber has improved his coaching on last year or do you think thats its the likes of Balme and co that has put the boys in the right direction

To be honest I think on gameday Bomber is probably the worst coach in the AFL however he seems to have made up for that this year in other areas.

He has built a well balanced and well drilled side where everyone not only knows and understands there role but follows the team plan. There are no passangers in the team at the moment.

I am really happy with what he has built at the club and in hindsight keeping the coach was the right move..

 

[The Cork Soaker]

That's one possibility. The other is they collect specific information and make it available to the coach when needed, offering a few suggestions to the coach who ultimate controls what happens.

that sounds a bit like "collective desicion making". Im sure your right Bomber makes the ultimate decision and calls the runner on the headset to instruct on the positional changes. The stats are compiled by the people with laptops up the back( ie how many sugars , decaf or super, latte or flat white) and they feed this info to the Coaches I reckon. Each coach is responsible for their respective areas (Doug Wade Stand, Garry Ablett Terrace etc), the que length and time proximity to a quarter break is calculated, is Alchohol served at that stand etc and a dash is made Go Go Go Go to the runner. Theres too many pie stalls out there these days for one man to keep up and be effective, things have certainly changed.
I probably have no idea what i'm talking about but i am the cork soaker after all

 

[rizzo]

To be honest I think on gameday Bomber is probably the worst coach in the AFL however he seems to have made up for that this year in other areas.

He has built a well balanced and well drilled side where everyone not only knows and understands there role but follows the team plan. There are no passangers in the team at the moment.

I am really happy with what he has built at the club and in hindsight keeping the coach was the right move..

maybe im reading this the wrong way so dont take offense, but are you saying that its the players that are making us play as good as we are at the moment.

If so if we lost the next 10 would you blame the coach or players.

People are to hard on bomber, all he can do is set the plan. However if the players fail etc then he always gets the blame.

pretty hard to be out coached when you win btw.