pagan

[Jimthegreat]

hmm nose in the door, more like a headbutt, but anyway fevola was gone before pagan came. we would have been spanked by more in past years if fevs had been gone. at least pagan got one thing right.

One in 4 years...not bad. Either way, what we have is better than 2 spoons and 7 wins in 2 years. Just reading though the list would tell you that.

 

[Jimthegreat]

4 AA's????

I hope your talking about batteries? If not you have gone for the black and gold and not the duracell!

Lance and Fev are there..Many up and comers, but Lappin and Kouta are already out in the bin...They just wont recharge anymore!

Lappin went to Ireland and played pretty well, albeit a different game. Depends who you play under I suppose. Kouta's probably gone, I'll agree, although he was our B& F in our 2005 spoon side. No charge in the battery there. Certainly plenty of up and comers as you said. That part's promising.

 

[BlueDevil]

One in 4 years...not bad. Either way, what we have is better than 2 spoons and 7 wins in 2 years. Just reading though the list would tell you that.

dont get me wrong i'm not bagging our list of players, they are great. and can only get better and better. the way simmo in particular stepped up last year got me very excited and made me a very very big fan of his. who knows what the season may bring, we may very well have a new coach at some stage next year. but shall we wait and see what the future may bring?

hopefuly some fingernails for myself.

 

[mediumsizered]

Let's see......4 AA's (Fev, Lance Lappin, Kouta), including the coleman medalist (if you want to go back to 2005 as well it would be 5), another who's played in 2 GF's (Scotland), another who would've be a 2004 premiership player except he come home (Stevens), another who went to Ireland (Simmo...that's 3 that went inc Simmo, Fev and Lappin), silky-slikked players like Houlihan, young guns like Murphy, Walker, Fisher, Waite.etc... I think the list is something alot better than what we've been getting the last 4 years. So much for the list excuse. If one can't at least do something with that lot (and I'm not asking premierships, or even finals...just to progress with more wins than the previous year, that would be enough) then you don't deserve your paypacket, especially one's that cost us $600,000 a year. We'd have got a better result p1ssing that amount up the wall. Would've been a few good night's out with those bikkies.

You know as well as everyone else that Kouta is a dead man walking. Lappin played VFL in 2006 because his form was so miserable. Fev, Lance, Stevens & Scotland, they are our 4 experienced players that are in the primes of their careers. Murphy, Walker, Fisher, Waite have played 182 games between them at an average of 45 each. Interesting to also note that Murphy, Fisher & Waite only managed 13 games each in 2006, with Waite's best run being 8 games in a row & Fisher 7 games in a row. Stevens carried an injury for most of the 2006 season, while Simmo certainly had a breakout season, but let's not forget he has only played 42 games, himself.

The fact that you include the likes of Simmo, Murphy & Fisher as part of your argument against Pagan underlines the lack of depth on our list. I think it would be fair to say that Simmo & Murphy are already ranked in our top 10 players. They shouldn't be at this stage of their careers, but they are. The problem is the bottom half of our 22 in 2006 would hardly compare to their counterparts at most AFL clubs. With respect, players like Setanta, Wiggins, McGrath, Deluca (both of whom are no longer on our list), JR, Bower, Blackers, even our own JK, would probably not have seen much, if any, senior action during 2006 at the top 8 clubs.

Let's never forget that our 2006 list also included Davies, Sporn, Prendergast, Livingstone, Bryan, Chambers & Longmuir. That is almost 20% of our list that was not up to AFL standard. Add McGrath & DeLuca to that list & that is almost a quarter of our list that would have struggled to get a game at any other AFL club. Take out Raso, Saddington, Hartlett, who were all unavailable for most of 2006 & you are suddenly down to 26 players to choose from. Of those 26, Murphy, Kennedy, Bower & Edwards were all first year players. We are now down to 22. Throw in your second year players, Russell, Blackwell & Betts & you are down to 19. Included in that 19 are Bannister, Carazzo, Wiggins, Bentick McLaren & Teague, of which probably only Bentick & Carazzo will be in our first 22 in 2007.

When you analyse our 2006 list, you can probably come up with, at best, probably a dozen players that would be in the best 22 at some of the better AFL clubs (& that is probably being a little bit generous to our boys). In fact I will go out on a limb & say that the following players would get a game at a 2006 top 8 club: Fevola, Whitnall, Stevens, Scotland, Houlihan, Thornton, Murphy, Simpson, Walker & Waite (not all of them would slot into the same team). The latter 4 would be in the bottom half of players in the 22 at a Melbourne or Western Bulldogs. Our list is full of great promise & should be challenging for a finals spot in 2 years time, but over the last couple of years it has been shy on quality mid-range players to fill spots 10-18. There is a massive gap between our best 10 & the rest.

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

I'm sorry, but where on earth has the pride gone? Where the hell has the passion gone?

Bare with me here mediumsizered, because i'm struggling to understand why you would bad mouth one of our own players like that, especially someone who has served teh club so well.

You know as well as everyone else that Kouta is a dead man walking.

I do not see ANY posters on the bombers board calling Hird a 'dead man walking.' I do not see any posters on Collingwood calling Buckley "a dead man walking."

For god's sake, where has the pride gone from this club? Where have the supporters gone? Since when do we refer to our players like that?! Regardless of how old they are, and what injuries they are carrying, Kouta does not deserve to have supporters refer to him like that.

Kouta was one of our most consistent last year. He had average games, below average games, but gee, everyone besides Fev, Scotland, Simpson and Thornton had below-average games more often than not. For a guy that has given so much to this club, i really think he deserves a bit more respect than being called a 'dead man walking.'

If i were an opposition supporter, and I read that sort of stuff on a carlton board, I'd laugh at Carlton, just like everyone else does.

No wonder we are the laughing stock when our own supporters can't even give players the respect they deserve.

I understand what you're saying mediumsizered, but i think perhaps there are better words to use and better ways of saying things.


"Dead man walking.'

I hope he proves you wrong this year.

 

[Effes]

I'm interested to know that if he is a 'dead man walking', why then was he re-signed for another year?

 

[mediumsizered]

I'm interested to know that if he is a 'dead man walking', why then was he re-signed for another year?

Most clubs look after their legends. That is why we carried Sticks & Madden a year longer than we should have. When you consider the Crows sacked a great servant of the club like Ben Hart, it shows the difference between a traditional club that reveres its champions (remembering Kouta's appointment as captain was more about rewarding loyalty, than his leadership skills) & a franchise like the Crows who have no tradition & therefore are less inclined to stand by their champions.

Kouta spent increasing amounts of time on the bench in the second half of the 2006 season & 2007 will probably see him spending even more time on the bench.

 

[BlueWorld]

Kouta really didn't look like he had a future until his enforced lay off after he had that injury mid season. That seemed to revitalise him. I think that shows that he can still play but only if used sparingly. He may need to have the odd week off or otherwise play on & off the bench a lot. It also sounds from training reports that his late start due to DWTS commitments hasn't helped his preparation for 2007.

 

[audas]

You know as well as everyone else that Kouta is a dead man walking. Lappin played VFL in 2006 because his form was so miserable. Fev, Lance, Stevens & Scotland, they are our 4 experienced players that are in the primes of their careers. Murphy, Walker, Fisher, Waite have played 182 games between them at an average of 45 each. Interesting to also note that Murphy, Fisher & Waite only managed 13 games each in 2006, with Waite's best run being 8 games in a row & Fisher 7 games in a row. Stevens carried an injury for most of the 2006 season, while Simmo certainly had a breakout season, but let's not forget he has only played 42 games, himself.

The fact that you include the likes of Simmo, Murphy & Fisher as part of your argument against Pagan underlines the lack of depth on our list. I think it would be fair to say that Simmo & Murphy are already ranked in our top 10 players. They shouldn't be at this stage of their careers, but they are. The problem is the bottom half of our 22 in 2006 would hardly compare to their counterparts at most AFL clubs. With respect, players like Setanta, Wiggins, McGrath, Deluca (both of whom are no longer on our list), JR, Bower, Blackers, even our own JK, would probably not have seen much, if any, senior action during 2006 at the top 8 clubs.

Let's never forget that our 2006 list also included Davies, Sporn, Prendergast, Livingstone, Bryan, Chambers & Longmuir. That is almost 20% of our list that was not up to AFL standard. Add McGrath & DeLuca to that list & that is almost a quarter of our list that would have struggled to get a game at any other AFL club. Take out Raso, Saddington, Hartlett, who were all unavailable for most of 2006 & you are suddenly down to 26 players to choose from. Of those 26, Murphy, Kennedy, Bower & Edwards were all first year players. We are now down to 22. Throw in your second year players, Russell, Blackwell & Betts & you are down to 19. Included in that 19 are Bannister, Carazzo, Wiggins, Bentick McLaren & Teague, of which probably only Bentick & Carazzo will be in our first 22 in 2007.

When you analyse our 2006 list, you can probably come up with, at best, probably a dozen players that would be in the best 22 at some of the better AFL clubs (& that is probably being a little bit generous to our boys). In fact I will go out on a limb & say that the following players would get a game at a 2006 top 8 club: Fevola, Whitnall, Stevens, Scotland, Houlihan, Thornton, Murphy, Simpson, Walker & Waite (not all of them would slot into the same team). The latter 4 would be in the bottom half of players in the 22 at a Melbourne or Western Bulldogs. Our list is full of great promise & should be challenging for a finals spot in 2 years time, but over the last couple of years it has been shy on quality mid-range players to fill spots 10-18. There is a massive gap between our best 10 & the rest.

This is why some of us are moderators and the rest of s just post. Qulity stuff. Especially when one considers who it is in response to, very hard not to get carried away with the emotive stuff.

AWG, I think kouta is going to get talked about and have "one of those years", but here, i think, medium is trying to respond to jimthegrate (as in grates on my nerves) with some restraint.

Kouta had his moments last year, but I also think he was nursing the kids through, and thats why he wants to have a break from captaincy as he not only wants to break lose, and so go out on a high, but also show em all how its done. Let the kids see that they may be good, may be the cream, bt theres a yawning gap between geting picked and becoming a champion. I don't think he wants to do this to show off, but rather to inspire, to let them know where they have to go.

How do I know this. I don't, its a hunch.



And I reckon (wipe away tear) you are going to see some stuff next year that they'll put on the AFL ads for ten years to come. KOUTAAAAAAA !



breathe.....breeeeeeeathe !

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

I think i'll get teary when he retires