Passengers

[Bedi]

**** me
He had 9 possessions in the 1st 1/4 iirc before kicking an oppo in the leg while trying to kick the ball
He then struggled to run but came good in the last.
Again, iirc he ended up with 17 @ 70/75% efficiency
What more do you want off the kid in his 1st game back from injury & getting injured again

i'm a huge fan of Hill. Massive. but yeah never seen him play a worse game. That's ok, as it's first game back which is fine. Just saying it would make sense for him to get his touch and confidence back in the seconds.

 

[LurkingHawk]

The preferred ending would have been 'does that make sense?'.

No no no, we don't want to be in tune with the 'does that make sense' guy!

 

[wahawk]

our shorter preseason.

This
Some people forget that over the last 5 yrs we've had around 20 weeks less time to prepare
It's gotta start taking its toll & would be extremely hard for Andrew Russell & co. to manage

 

[Coathanger]

This
Some people forget that over the last 5 yrs we've had around 20 weeks less time to prepare
It's gotta start taking its toll & would be extremely hard for Andrew Russell & co. to manage

Also 20 weeks less to get injured.

 

[Badesumofu]

Also 20 weeks less to get injured.

No it's not. The reason we have less prep time is that our preseason has to start later because our main seasons have been ending later. It's not because our guys have been taking longer holidays

 

[badgrill]

Also 20 weeks less to get injured.

Um, actually it's 20 weeks more.

 

[HomerJayS]

This
Some people forget that over the last 5 yrs we've had around 20 weeks less time to prepare
It's gotta start taking its toll & would be extremely hard for Andrew Russell & co. to manage

5 yrs worth of finals training. Deep into finals too.

We've missed 20 weeks of meaningless preseason and gained 20 weeks of finals footy. Pretty unfair on those sides that haven't played finals...

 

[Smooth Banana]

While I agree that they are not meant to play like Hodge and bash bodies all day, but it is EVERY player's role to "Go when it's your turn" absolute non negotiable of the Hawthorn Football Club (excluding pretty boy era mid 90s - 05)

Na I don't buy that. I think guys like Hill have been given specific instructions. Besides when it's his turn to go, he goes..He runs. When it's Hodges turn to go, he smashes. Different meaning for everyone.

Go and watch the highlights of the last 3 seasons, Brad Hill has played a vital role. Now he is not one of my favourites, but he is easily in our best 22. Let's just leave it to Clarko like my fellow poster above suggested.

 

[Hawk_francais]

After watching a bit more of our games, I think I'd like to ask a question that must have a very complicated answer:

Why is Mitchell our best midfielder in every game?

The other players being spoken about on this thread have not played poorly in every game, but they go inexplicably missing, or don't chase, or don't tackle, or make poor decisions repeatedly. We all know that Sam is very good, he might be the best midfielder in the league - I certainly wouldn't trade him for another - but Lewis, Shiels and co. are also great players who are miles off him for consistency. So much so that I can watch the game and almost feel when Mitchell goes to rest on the bench. In those moments we seem to lose organisation and composure at stoppages.

Against Adelaide I thought that the quality of midfield play was quite average from both sides for a lot of the game. In the second quarter we hit targets and played fluidly because Hodge and Burgoyne were thrown in. Adelaide were very sloppy but we were the same in the first and third. I don't mind getting challenged by another team when they are playing great footy, but this was not the case. Mitchell is setting a standard that those around him aren't following - it makes me think of Pendlebury, Fyfe, Ablett.

Under Clarkson I've never felt that the success of our team rested so much on one player's shoulders. Do you agree?

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Yeah he is certainly our best and most consistent player.

I suppose they ask the same thing it other clubs, why is Priddis always there abouts yet Gaff, Shuey, Marsden, Wellingham, etc go missing....

This is where Sydney are so god. Rarely do Parker, Hanners and Kennedy play poor games.

 

[LuckyHawk]

Hill needds some time but jesus....

If Hill cost us a final because he was poor at a contest then people would want his blood on here and rightly so.
He hasn't improved in this area in 4 years, there's no excuse. He can open the play up with his run no doubt
but if the ball isn't fed to him he almost becomes irrelevant because he can't get his own footy.
Peter Crimmins was smaller than Hill yet his attack on the man and footy was ferocious. He has to put his body
on the line more when the footy needs to be won- same goes with Hartung. Its got nothing to do with how big
you are or "my role says I can't", rather a more competitive aggressive attitude.

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

After watching a bit more of our games, I think I'd like to ask a question that must have a very complicated answer:

Why is Mitchell our best midfielder in every game?

The other players being spoken about on this thread have not played poorly in every game, but they go inexplicably missing, or don't chase, or don't tackle, or make poor decisions repeatedly. We all know that Sam is very good, he might be the best midfielder in the league - I certainly wouldn't trade him for another - but Lewis, Shiels and co. are also great players who are miles off him for consistency. So much so that I can watch the game and almost feel when Mitchell goes to rest on the bench. In those moments we seem to lose organisation and composure at stoppages.

Against Adelaide I thought that the quality of midfield play was quite average from both sides for a lot of the game. In the second quarter we hit targets and played fluidly because Hodge and Burgoyne were thrown in. Adelaide were very sloppy but we were the same in the first and third. I don't mind getting challenged by another team when they are playing great footy, but this was not the case. Mitchell is setting a standard that those around him aren't following - it makes me think of Pendlebury, Fyfe, Ablett.

Under Clarkson I've never felt that the success of our team rested so much on one player's shoulders. Do you agree?

Mitchell has been great, no doubt. But our side as a whole has made him look great. He racks up a lot of posessions because we always give him the footy. Seems to be a team rule, that if Mitchell is available to give the footy, give it too him. Justifiably so as he uses it so well, but a lot of the time on Friday night we were giving it too him when he was under pressure, which results in us causing turnovers and the ball coming free.

So whilst I'm not disputing the season Mitchell has had, he's been able to get that much of the footy cause we constantly give it to him. Essentially he is like our pivot, out point guard. Any opportunity put it in his hands and let him create.

 

[Arc1]

View attachment 238777 Ripping track, probably their best in my opinion. Reminds me so much of my last year of school back in '99.

Oh wait, this is a thread about taking the axe to players after we've recently beaten two sides that are like top 4 contenders while not playing near our best?

Honestly before throwing the baby out with the bath water - and I admit some players aren't at their best - let's remember our 4-4 start last year with losses to 2015 juggernauts Port Adelaide, GWS and Essendrugs. Our start to last year was alarmingly avwrage. We're in much better shape this year I feel. And Roughie is a massive out for us - his return will have a huge impact.

Perspective people.

Calling that the 'finger's best track is almost as weird as the OP, surely?!

Actually come to think of it, we should just do a "rank the best ever Powderfinger tracks" and be done with it... would certainly sh1t all over a thread bagging players like Langford.

 

[Hawk_francais]

So...

 

[lordbob]

Am i the only one thinking that hodge has been a passanger so far this year? The number of times i see an opposition player run past him while he is jogging and then be on the receiving end of a handball chain, or in the last quarter there where he was next to greene and then just ran into open space leaving greene alone in clear space inside their forward 50.

He does well when we are attacking, its his defensive efforts on the run which are my issue and where we are being beaten a lot this year. In the air he goes when its his turn but with defensive running seems to leave it to someone else.

He either isnt fit enough, isnt switched on or his body is too old to be able to keep up with the modern game.

Im not saying this jsut because of this thrashing we've copped but have noticed it multiple times the last few weeks.

 

[5ammy]

Am i the only one thinking that hodge has been a passanger so far this year? The number of times i see an opposition player run past him while he is jogging and then be on the receiving end of a handball chain, or in the last quarter there where he was next to greene and then just ran into open space leaving greene alone in clear space inside their forward 50.

He does well when we are attacking, its his defensive efforts on the run which are my issue and where we are being beaten a lot this year. In the air he goes when its his turn but with defensive running seems to leave it to someone else.

He either isnt fit enough, isnt switched on or his body is too old to be able to keep up with the modern game.

Im not saying this jsut because of this thrashing we've copped but have noticed it multiple times the last few weeks.

I'm actually still a bit surprised that they brought him back in so soon after breaking his arm, seemed odd. He definitely isn't playing anywhere near the level of last season but then again, not many of our boys are. I'm leaning towards him being not fit enough due to the arm, I have faith that the general will bounce back. In Hodgey we trust!

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Am i the only one thinking that hodge has been a passanger so far this year? The number of times i see an opposition player run past him while he is jogging and then be on the receiving end of a handball chain, or in the last quarter there where he was next to greene and then just ran into open space leaving greene alone in clear space inside their forward 50.

He does well when we are attacking, its his defensive efforts on the run which are my issue and where we are being beaten a lot this year. In the air he goes when its his turn but with defensive running seems to leave it to someone else.

He either isnt fit enough, isnt switched on or his body is too old to be able to keep up with the modern game.

Im not saying this jsut because of this thrashing we've copped but have noticed it multiple times the last few weeks.

Agree he has been average. Not switched on and def lazy at times.

 

[realhawk]

L

I'm actually still a bit surprised that they brought him back in so soon after breaking his arm, seemed odd. He definitely isn't playing anywhere near the level of last season but then again, not many of our boys are. I'm leaning towards him being not fit enough due to the arm, I have faith that the general will bounce back. In Hodgey we trust!

lewis! Hodge, burgers, gibbo , these guys are in the twilight of their careers, the players that need a kick up the arse are the mid tier players, smith , hill, shiels, doc, Bruest

 

[lordbob]

L

lewis! Hodge, burgers, gibbo , these guys are in the twilight of their careers, the players that need a kick up the arse are the mid tier players, smith , hill, shiels, doc, Bruest

Lewis and hodge are indeed in their twilight years, but we cant afford to carry them if we want to compete for the premiership again. If they aren't able to play their role then they need a week off or to be dropped to the ressies just like we did to sewel in his twilight years. Who do we bring in to replace them? well thats the problem there. We don't have a lot of options to bring in who will perform significantly better at AFL level and we are already blooding quite a few youngsters.

dont get me started on breust, gets caught HTB at least once per game where he is caught completely unawares and almost sleeping then just lies down like a log and doesnt make any attempt to get rid of it, and seems to only kick a goal when extremely close to goal or directly in front. His goal kicking has been off since mid last year when he equaled the most goals in a row without a point. To his credit he is being forced to rotate through the middle which I don't think he is really suited to and would prob be more damaging if left in the forward half, but its a team game and we need them rotations in the middle so i cut him a bit of slack.

hill and smith are outside players for the most part and can be expected to be quiet when our inside players are being demolished.

Langford will be a desperately needed IN, he may not rack up the numbers, partly due to the other players not really wanting to give it to him due to his poor disposal efficiency, but his pressure and attack on the ball were really missed out there today.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Na I don't buy that. I think guys like Hill have been given specific instructions. Besides when it's his turn to go, he goes..He runs. When it's Hodges turn to go, he smashes. Different meaning for everyone.

Go and watch the highlights of the last 3 seasons, Brad Hill has played a vital role. Now he is not one of my favourites, but he is easily in our best 22. Let's just leave it to Clarko like my fellow poster above suggested.

I have defended Hill for the reasons you have stated but his credits have run out. He is way out of form.

Used to be a very clean ball handler good decision maker and would kick well to our forwards.

His kicking is now embarassing.

He is nowhere the player he was.

He isnt alone by the way but his drop off has been more severe than others.

 

[Taylor]

Outside players usually look average when the inside contested numbers are poor.

It is living and dying by the sword though because when the inside ball is coming out elite, the outside players look like superstars tearing up the lines without an opponent.

 

[JordyLuke]

Outside players usually look average when the inside contested numbers are poor.

It is living and dying by the sword though because when the inside ball is coming out elite, the outside players look like superstars tearing up the lines without an opponent.

Spot on.

 

[Davo23]

So...

So, you're still wrong!

 

[In2theWild]

Seems everytime Hill thinks he is going to burn player X off... He doesnt. Good in space with room to run when already on the move but continually mown down when chased from a standing start.... IMO.

 

[JoondalupJ]

It has been good to have three wins in three weeks, but there has been so little in these games that we need to be realistic about our team's performance - we could be 1-4 easily. I think there have been some repeatedly poor efforts from some midfielders like:

Jordan Lewis
Bradley Hill
Billy Hartung
Liam Shiels
Will Langford

Some of these assessments may seem harsh due to injury and some good single-quarter efforts, but have you noticed these players shirking the challenge a bit in recent weeks?

Well GWS gave us a wake up call. I 'm not worried, we were always going to get a result like this, and GWS had us lined up. We as I have pointed out before , got a new year a new team to an extent , we have to make new plans for highly improving opponents, , Langers and Hartung wwere out. Hill for me seems to be a blike that really struggles for 2 or 3 weeks after being out injured, his mindset maybe.

We had a horror day and the Giants were totally up for it and had planned to take a scalp , they did, and brilliantly, they are the future, and I am not in any way shape or form an expansion believer , I always said that some Traditional footy states would suffer because of dilution and extra help given to new clubs , and it had to happen because they'd never have 2 new success s' if they didn't help.

Doesn't make it right, I'd rather see The Dogs or Freo or Port be the new killers, but it looks like GWS so credit where credit is due.

I still think they have a long season ahead of them and that next time with Hawthorn won't be like it was Yesterday.

But we have a long season ahead too. And we have a new team to refit , and get up and going , youngsters , injuries , but the ageing comments from some other club posters are bulldust , really!

As for shirking when the other clubs begin to get better they see the up and comers the mid line players and the youngsters and they target them, our younger players and really new players are being played on by opposition that want to really hammer them , and so they begin a new learning curve when you are a heavy duty player and successful this always happens. So shirking is part of learning and Hawks don't shirk they learn.

Except for injury Langford has learnt and is still one of the most devastating in and under players going around, no one has good times when Langers is obsession and viscous in a pack about getting the ball.

Lewis , you must be kidding , he may be out of form , Hill looks uncertain, nothing to do with being a shirker, Billy is small and will have a big load to carry in years to come , its all there and he'll be right these are kids, he was out too. Liam Shiels another you have to be kidding , no shirker at all , its form , we were rubbish against GWS they brought their full strength to Spotless yesterday and were determined to get us , we were backfooted from the go. They took aim in full flight we just couldn't get off the ground, they also played the winner in tactics , must have studied us hard for the week and before leading up, got us at the right time , and not yet fully set the Hawks. 6 to 8 more weeks, see whose still about , but the Giants I think will be.