Religion Pell Guilty!

[blackcat]

I tend to think his veins contain ice of a different type.

* psychology boffins would love to get a brief of manifest cognitive dissonance *on this hypothetical.

David Marr may also have had a more comprehensive insight into darker sides... which one could read Marr's seething prose.

asterisk for caveats

 

[GuruJane]

Seems only the "Joe" allegation is no new news there. Also mentions in there that Joe "wasn't a strong witness", "wanted $20k for photos" that he could not provide negatives for. Goes on to mention "credibility of the claims made were never substantiated". A lot of other conjecture. Poor article tbh

Yes it is a poor article. But at least the Joe allegation gives us the only description so far of Pell displaying the kind of aggressive sexuality he would have to possess if the post -Sunday-mass,-full-regalia, two-choirboys-r*ped scenario can be believed.

Was also impressed by what Ms Last had to say about Pell at the time. Seemed a wise woman.

 

[Feerits Elf]

The ONLY description?

What about the description that led to Pell being found guilty?

That was the post-Sunday mass, full-regalia, two-choirboys-r*ped scenario.

 

[chelseacarlton]

George guilty of child rape,torture and sleeping in a prison cell Pell.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Yes it is a poor article. But at least the Joe allegation gives us the only description so far of Pell displaying the kind of aggressive sexuality he would have to possess if the post -Sunday-mass,-full-regalia, two-choirboys-r*ped scenario can be believed.

Was also impressed by what Ms Last had to say about Pell at the time. Seemed a wise woman.

Any evidence to support this proposition, or is it just what you think as a trained psychologist specialising in sexual behaviours?

 

[GuruJane]

Any evidence to support this proposition, or is it just what you think as a trained psychologist specialising in sexual behaviours?

Paedos don't normally rape children who they haven't groomed and their families they check out first.

They aren't known to rape them in full archbishops regalia just after saying Sunday mass to hundreds when he doesn't know their circumstances andwhether they might let it out to their mothers.

 

[TimmeT]

Paedos don't normally rape children who they haven't groomed and their families they check out first.

They aren't known to rape them in full archbishops regalia just after saying Sunday mass to hundreds when he doesn't know their circumstances andwhether they might let it out to their mothers.

probably pretty dumb comment to make. Multiple cases last year of paedo going into the toilets and committing an indecent act on a random victi.

 

[Gough]

If the Insiders guys could put Bolt's head on R Kelly it would be a masterpiece.

 

[blackcat]

Any evidence to support this proposition, or is it just what you think as a trained psychologist specialising in sexual behaviours?

it was an amalgam of fellatio with contemporaneous onanism.*

*caveat unsaid.

listen, to have a w@ank at the same time would hypothetically* demonstrate one is au fait with their personal corporeal eros. IF***. in this scenario, not demonstrating a sexual naif

 

[blackcat]

probably pretty dumb comment to make. Multiple cases last year of paedo going into the toilets and committing an indecent act on a random victi.

Guru mimicked my sentiments. This does not mean a person could not have acted in such manner. What this ad d'affaire[sic] reinforces is one will never trul know what another is capable of. even one's family. I did not think it was dumb. GJ is one thing, but she aint that, nor slip of tongue/keyboard. See: even Richter lost his cool, if he was to have time to filter/redact.

 

[its free real estate]

Jimmy Savile would molest kids he’d just met while the cameras were running.

It is a dumb comment from GuruJane.

 

[GuruJane]

Jimmy Savile would molest kids he’d just met while the cameras were running.

It is a dumb comment from GuruJane.

I suggest you have a good read of the narratives in the Royal Child Abuse commission.

What Pell was accused of doing does not fit the usual paedo profile. Paedos actually seduce children - they try to get them aroused so that they'll come back for more. Confuse them. That's what makes paedophilia so insidious.

The Pell scenario suggests a straight out power trip, testing the fates, caution to the wind ....utter arrogance ...

 

[GuruJane]

probably pretty dumb comment to make. Multiple cases last year of paedo going into the toilets and committing an indecent act on a random victi.

Can you provide some links?

 

[its free real estate]

I suggest you have a good read of the narratives in the Royal Child Abuse commission.

What Pell was accused of doing does not fit the usual paedo profile. Paedos actually seduce children - they try to get them aroused so that they'll come back for more. Confuse them. That's what makes paedophilia so insidious.

The Pell scenario suggests a straight out power trip, testing the fates, caution to the wind ....utter arrogance ...

Dante Arthurs did not seduce anyone. Your take on this is fantasyland.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

I suggest you have a good read of the narratives in the Royal Child Abuse commission.

What Pell was accused of doing does not fit the usual paedo profile. Paedos actually seduce children - they try to get them aroused so that they'll come back for more. Confuse them. That's what makes paedophilia so insidious.

The Pell scenario suggests a straight out power trip, testing the fates, caution to the wind ....utter arrogance ...

Maybe some convicted priest paedos, but plenty of cases of opportunistic ones.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Having demonstrated you have a penchant for seeing things in just in black and white, whataboutism, and sequential thinking not being your strong point let me allow you to sleep at night.

I believe repressed memory to be real but that people handle matters of trauma in different ways. I am confident that had I been the subject of child sexual abuse I would have made it known at the time. I say that because I recall as an ankle biter a stranger claiming to be a person interested in photography asking my parents if he could take a photograph of me. They gave the okay. I thought he was creepy and said so to my parents at the time and felt that even more so when he turned up at our house with the photo and repeated how I felt.

Having listened to and read the heartrending stories of so many of the abused; having read the Report for the Royal Commission into The Impact of Delayed Reporting on the Prosecution and Outcomes of Child Sexual Abuse Cases - you should read it; the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse - you should read it; and the response to Blot's cretinism by Clare Kathleen which I posted earlier - you should read it, I have a much better understanding of repressed memory and how it can adversely affect many people and agree - to quote - "There is overwhelming evidence that many victims do not speak about their abuse until decades after"

You seem confused. In the Bill Shorten rape allegation thread you said

Am I the only one who has misgivings about someone who waits 28 years before taking action over an alleged rape?

And now you want to claim that the statement you quoted from the report supports your view? 'There is overwhelming evidence that many victims do not speak about their abuse until decades after'.

Also, The Report for the Royal Commission into The Impact of Delayed Reporting on the Prosecution and Outcomes of Child Sexual Abuse Cases does not support your argument. Rather than 'repressed memory' the main reasons for delayed reporting of abuse are

threats being made by the perpetrator; fear of the consequences and reactions of others; not feeling that they had the appropriate opportunity to tell; not understanding that the abusive behaviour was unacceptable; and not wanting to jeopardise their relationship with the perpetrator​

 

[Frank Bunn]

Also worth highlighting from the report 'The Impact of Delayed Reporting on the Prosecution and Outcomes of Child Sexual Abuse Cases'.

A relatively small proportion of sexual assault incidents (4.8 per cent) and a higher proportion of indecent assault incidents (7.5 per cent) involved persons in positions of authority in relation to the child, a conservative proxy for ‘institutional abuse’. Family members were the most common persons of interest for both sexual assault and indecent assault, involved in around 40 per cent of incidents. Almost the same percentage, 38 per cent, involved another known person who was unrelated to the victim (for example, a friend). The vast majority were therefore someone known to or related to the child.​

All cases of sexual assault and indecent assault on children are abhorrent but we should not focus on a small aspect of it at the expense of looking at larger contributors.

 

[Thornton Melon]

Anyone got nudes from Pell's strip-search?

(for science)

 

[Frank Bunn]

So you start by saying in your recollection you did what you did, look t

I think that taking the stand could have made all the difference.
He could describe the usual routine of the day
And deny accusations under cross examination
This would give jury a chance to read emotional content and facial cues.
I think he disadvantaged himself by using a video interview; the screen may have made his seem less relatable or believable. Also the defence witnesses may have given the impression of making up a story to protect Pell given Pell did not directly speak for himself.
I’m really talking about how one influences a jury (which is how a jury case is run rather than on straight legal argument) btw I am no lawyer

I guess that's all easy to say in hindsight. It's normal for the accused in such cases not to take the stand. Pell would have taken the advice of his counsel, who people say is the best in the business.

I've read that the victim did not take the stand in the 2nd trial and the jury was just shown videos from the !st trial. I don't know the truth of that. Anyone got evidence either way?

If the jury in the 2nd trial was just shown videos of the victim giving evidence from the 1st trial then it would contradict another assertion I have read in the press - that the jury in the 2nd trial did not know it was a retrial. Knowledge that it was a retrial may have led to the 2nd jury feeling pressure not to return another mistrial.

 

[smokingjacket]

The Pell scenario suggests a straight out power trip, testing the fates, caution to the wind ....utter arrogance ...

If only there were some historical examples of Cardinals motivated by the acquisition of power and its exposition...

 

[Crankyhawk]

I guess that's all easy to say in hindsight. It's normal for the accused in such cases not to take the stand. Pell would have taken the advice of his counsel, who people say is the best in the business.

I've read that the victim did not take the stand in the 2nd trial and the jury was just shown videos from the !st trial. I don't know the truth of that. Anyone got evidence either way?

If the jury in the 2nd trial was just shown videos of the victim giving evidence from the 1st trial then it would contradict another assertion I have read in the press - that the jury in the 2nd trial did not know it was a retrial. Knowledge that it was a retrial may have led to the 2nd jury feeling pressure not to return another mistrial.

I suppose even if was video they still saw witness being cross examined

 

[Craven Morehead]

Paedos don't normally rape children who they haven't groomed and their families they check out first.

They aren't known to rape them in full archbishops regalia just after saying Sunday mass to hundreds when he doesn't know their circumstances andwhether they might let it out to their mothers.

I suggest you have a good read of the narratives in the Royal Child Abuse commission.

What Pell was accused of doing does not fit the usual paedo profile. Paedos actually seduce children - they try to get them aroused so that they'll come back for more. Confuse them. That's what makes paedophilia so insidious.

The Pell scenario suggests a straight out power trip, testing the fates, caution to the wind ....utter arrogance ...

What absolute garbage.
You tried on this crap earlier in the thread and got laughed at, yet here you are again trying on the same bullshit.
I suppose the only way to convince you would be a time machine that takes you back to 70's-80's catholic and protestant boarding schools.
You weren't groomed, you weren't made to get aroused, you were just f***ing r*ped for the hell of it.
Seriously, just STFU with this frog shit.

 

[GuruJane]

Dante Arthurs did not seduce anyone. Your take on this is fantasyland.

I know a great deal about this subject, having had family and neighbourly experience of institutional paedophiles grooming their targets and their families and using arousal as a weapon. This was in the 70s and 80s when the practice was at its height. Their methods are particularly insidious and cruel.

Pell so far presents more as the arrogant, entitled extreme alpha male.

 

[GuruJane]

btw Dante Arthurs does not fit the usual paedo profile either, more extreme psychotic like loss of control.

 

[its free real estate]

btw Dante Arthurs does not fit the usual paedo profile either, more extreme psychotic like loss of control.

He was accused on three separate occasions of sexually assaulting a child under 10.

You are making shit up.