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Peter Schwab on TW

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Harpoon

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I'm going to type this out for those who don't get to read it. It's from this week's Footy Record with pretty boy Shane Crawford on the front cover!...

WHEN WORDS BACKFIRE
Coaches must set team goals that are achievable and realistic.
Peter Schwab, a former Hawthorn player and coach, is CEO of Football Victoria, he is an ex-teammate of Terry Wallace.

At the start of 2004, having bolstered the list with some experience, I genuinely believed we could play finals and with some luck...well who knows?

The club had taken a bold approach to marketing itself, and so I found myself at a pre-season function of some size and hype, with a sprinkling of media and corporate support present.

Just before my speech, I decided upon a course of action I would later come to regret. I would make a statement to those present to gauge their reaction. After the welcomes, I simply said: "Hawthorn will win the premiership in 2004," lol :D

The reaction was mixed: some people laughed, others just stared, some shuffled on the spot and lowered their heads. I could not see the players' reactions, as they were standing behind me. The media present knew they had their headline story. The statement would later come back to haunt me, as the defeats mounted.

So why did I say it? The answer was simple. I wanted to make a point. Winning a premiership was why we were in the competition. That's why we play. I did clarify my statement in those terms, but it was too late. The words were out there, and the headlines plastered on the back pages the next day.

What I did was flawed because of the pressure it inevitably placed on the team. It was flawed because I made a public statement about team goals without finalising with the players what we believed we could achieve. An idea on a whim, simply to make a point. It was regrettable.

Which leads me in a roundabout way to Terry Wallace, and his pre-season utterances about Richmond's chances or goals in 2007. I am not sure of Wallace's exact words - and whether it was just an answer to a question or a pre-planned comment - but he certainly hosed down expectations, suggesting the Tigers were in a "holding pattern" and would emerge in 2009 at the earliest.

Wallace is a smart media operator who understands the industry better than most. He has, until this year, enjoyed positive media coverage as a result of his strategy and ability to get the best from his players.

Wallace rarely says anything publicly he hasn't planned. This is not a criticism; in many ways it is a compliment, an acknowledgment of how well he operates.

But he got it wrong when he set the bar too low. Where I had gone way over the top in 2004, he undersold Richmond's chances to supporters, and, more importantly, to his players.

When you tell players they may not do much before 2008 and it won't be until 2011 that they will be pushing for a premiership, it allows them either an option to relax psychologically, or it deflates them. It can also potentially leave older players disenchanted, their chances of playing finals no longer considered a reality.

Experts will tell you goals need to be achievable and realistic, so maybe Wallace was being both. But I am not sure what his players believed.

After seven rounds, it appears Wallace was right about his team, and why it will take some time to get it where he wants it to be. But he also created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

This has contradicted a fundamental of his coaching style. He has always been ultra positive and able to instill belief in his players. One solution is for Wallace to go back to his core strength, and start making his players believe again.

It will not be easy. Richmond has too many young players with young bodies in the team. Rebuilding is about playing youth, but it needs to be supported by experience. There has to be a balance.

The decision to let Darren Gaspar retire was perplexing. There may have been other reasons Gaspar left, but on the surface, he represented experience, something the Tigers desperately need.

All Wallace can do is keep faith in himself, his support staff, his planning, his players and the future. The losses will test him and the club. The journey will be tough.

I enjoyed reading this and thought it was an interesting, great article. Thoughts/comments?

Well, that's my morning! 3.5 hours on Big Footy! Enjoy the weekend and Go Tiges!
Harp
 
Thanks for going to the trouble of typing that out Harp! Interesting read...we pretty much had this disc. on here a month or so ago.....

but he has hit the nail with the 'setting the bar too low' comment. Wallace also has stated he regrets it now and no doubt has been in damage control trying to reverse it by telling the players they have a chance of playing finals footy NEXT YEAR. I am with Schwab, and media being media, took their headline and selectively ommitted his point on that fateful night...which is every coach should tell and instil in his players that have a chance of winning EVERY game and even make it to the big one at the start of the season, (even if on paper it is a slim chance at best!).

But since Wallace let rip and 'lost' the senior players because of it, he took the right decision (Gaspar) and decided to begin the cull.
 
You have to remember that Schwab said a few years back "we will win the Premiership this year" (as Hawthorn Coach) The response from his own supporters was to laugh - but unfortunately he was serious.

There is a big difference between aiming high and being realsitic. Like his then suporters - I wouldn't take what Schwab says too seriously.
 
You have to remember that Schwab said a few years back "we will win the Premiership this year" (as Hawthorn Coach) The response from his own supporters was to laugh - but unfortunately he was serious.

There is a big difference between aiming high and being realsitic. Like his then suporters - I wouldn't take what Schwab says too seriously.

Man, you need to learn how to read an article. Schwab said that he was making the point that all teams are in the comp to win premierships. That was the point that he was trying to make. I remember him saying that at the time and he has pointed it out again now.

If you're happy with Wallets waiting for 2011 then you go with that...
 

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So are you saying Tigerland, from where they finished the year before he should have said, we are going to aim for 9th....can't do that, we have that secured every year;)

Take your point...but my point is, regardless of where everyone else 'thinks' you will finish, the coach needs to say 'we can beat every side in the competition', which means at the beginning of the year, the flag is in contention. For the coach to tell his players, I think we can win 8-10 games this year, to me, or even 'aim high' with 12-15, is wrong. Maybe it is just me, but personally I would like my coach at the beginning of the year to say 'we are going for the flag'...not 'we are going for 9th!' So lets just say, and he knows it, Schwab chose the wrong plce to 'motivate' the players, but I would prefer his statement than Wallace's 'holding pattern!'
 
I take your point and I have no doubt that every Coach talks up their chances (behind closed doors) to the players reagrdless of how optermistic.

I think you will find that Wallace said that there is a massive gap in players aged 22 - 26 (or thereabouts) and the previous drafting has caused this problem with a gap in the list.
This gap won't be filled until 2011. So he said that and crayon holding journos have interpreted it as - Richmond won't be competitive until 2011.
There is a massive difference between what wallace said and what he has been quoted as saying.

Sure he could have chosen his words better but so could have Schwab and maybe me too.
 
You have to remember that Schwab said a few years back "we will win the Premiership this year" (as Hawthorn Coach) The response from his own supporters was to laugh - but unfortunately he was serious.

There is a big difference between aiming high and being realsitic. Like his then suporters - I wouldn't take what Schwab says too seriously.

Man, you need to learn how to read an article. Schwab said that he was making the point that all teams are in the comp to win premierships. That was the point that he was trying to make. I remember him saying that at the time and he has pointed it out again now.

If you're happy with Wallets waiting for 2011 then you go with that...

I was thinking the same thing Jazz, but for a different reason. Why would you be telling us to remember that, Tigerland, when it's exactly what was written in the article above? ie. why are you reading back to us the facts that are already outlined in the article and then telling us to remember it? :confused:

Perplexed Tigerland, but no offence. By the way, did you see my "I met Tigerland at the RAH!!!" thread? Thanks again for the smoke! :thumbsu: I was gonna try to catch up with you at the Cows game but didn't hear from ya. Maybe another time, my email addy is in that thread so drop us a line!

Harp
 
okay didn't Wallace say that it wouldn't be until 2011 that we'll be consistently playing in finals footy, i don't remember him ever directly shooting down our chances to play finals in between now and then, he merely stated we'd be a consistently solid, upper-tier side by that stage.
 
okay didn't Wallace say that it wouldn't be until 2011 that we'll be consistently playing in finals footy, i don't remember him ever directly shooting down our chances to play finals in between now and then, he merely stated we'd be a consistantly solid, upper-tier side by that stage.


At last some common sense..but unfortunately sense ain't all that common around here.

The media has latched on and twisted the 2011 thing completely out of context.

It's totally ridiculous as how it's been reported as opposed to what was actually said.:thumbsd::mad:
 
At last some common sense..but unfortunately sense ain't all that common around here.

The media has latched on and twisted the 2011 thing completely out of context.

It's totally ridiculous as how it's been reported as opposed to what was actually said.:thumbsd::mad:

Unfortunately whatever he said, perception is reality. The media grasped onto the "2011" comment and everyone has run with it ever since. It will haunt Wallace forever now.

It still ranks as one of the stupidest comments to ever suggest. Imagine how many members we probably lost that haven't signed up.

It disenchanted the senior players, sapped the confidence of our young players, and the proof is in the pudding with our 0-8 record. We don't even look like winning a game.

That comment is the reason for our suffering.
 
Actually Magic17, that is my point. I think they twisted the Schwab comment and it lost its 'we are a shot at beating every team in this competition-I am right behind you guys' to 'the flag is ours this year'.

Whereas, Wallace should not have even been telling anyone what he said, except maybe a closed door meeting with top management on the likely success of the team for financial considerations.

To say to the players, especially the senior players, we won't be playing regular finals footy until 2011 was wrong. It sent the wrong message regardless of how the media spun it. I prefer the Schwab comment and have the team 'believe' I EXPECT them to become a regular finals team starting from NOW!
 
Actually Magic17, that is my point. I think they twisted the Schwab comment and it lost its 'we are a shot at beating every team in this competition-I am right behind you guys' to 'the flag is ours this year'.

Whereas, Wallace should not have even been telling anyone what he said, except maybe a closed door meeting with top management on the likely success of the team for financial considerations.

To say to the players, especially the senior players, we won't be playing regular finals footy until 2011 was wrong. It sent the wrong message regardless of how the media spun it. I prefer the Schwab comment and have the team 'believe' I EXPECT them to become a regular finals team starting from NOW!

your absolutely spot on here. It's surprising such a media smart operator like Wallace shot himself in the foot like this.

I have also noticed another thing about Wallace. It's all about him when he speaks. For example, the 157 point loss was the biggest "he" has suffered. Or 0-8 is "his" worst start to a season.

I think we may have a self indulgent ego maniac as a coach.
 
I was thinking the same thing Jazz, but for a different reason. Why would you be telling us to remember that, Tigerland, when it's exactly what was written in the article above? ie. why are you reading back to us the facts that are already outlined in the article and then telling us to remember it? :confused:

Perplexed Tigerland, but no offence. By the way, did you see my "I met Tigerland at the RAH!!!" thread? Thanks again for the smoke! :thumbsu: I was gonna try to catch up with you at the Cows game but didn't hear from ya. Maybe another time, my email addy is in that thread so drop us a line!

Harp
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Simple reason I said that (quoting a quote that had been mentioned) was that I didn't read the whole post. I tend to lose interest if they're too long. Had a quick glance and thought it was another go at Wallace about the 2011 debacle.
So I've been caught jumping to conclusions - maybe I should get a job at the
Herald Sun. They're masters of that.
 

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give me open honest assesments of our club of our players and of where we are at any day they can shove the spin where the sun dont shine ive had a gutful of it. wallace was being honest good on him for it.

one thing for sure, with lower expectations and more realistic appraisals of our players, it will certainly make it easier for wallce to get rid of the underachievers like krakouer pettifer hyde tivendale etc etc. without upsetting the overly optimistic ferals amongst us to much.
 
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Simple reason I said that (quoting a quote that had been mentioned) was that I didn't read the whole post. I tend to lose interest if they're too long. Had a quick glance and thought it was another go at Wallace about the 2011 debacle.
So I've been caught jumping to conclusions - maybe I should get a job at the
Herald Sun. They're masters of that.

No worries mate! At least yer honest. :)

Harp
 
give me open honest assesments of our club of our players and of where we are at any day they can shove the spin where the sun dont shine ive had a gutful of it. wallace was being honest good on him for it.

one thing for sure, with lower expectations and more realistic appraisals of our players, it will certainly make it easier for wallce to get rid of the underachievers like krakouer pettifer hyde tivendale etc etc. without upsetting the overly optimistic ferals amongst us to much.


OR..he could have the high expectations scenario, and if they don't make the finals, he can still then say to those not performing 'I expected you guys to make the finals, I believe it was realistic, you are obviously not up to it, see ya!'
 

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