Petro Georgiou - take a bow my man

[bozza]

Precisely. If these people want to come to Australia, provided their not terrorists or people with a dangerous background, we should allow them to assimilate into the Australian way of life and add something to our society. Just like the Greeks, Italians, Croats, Serbs, Macedonians and all other large groups of immgrants did in the 1950's/1960s

On another note Carly, whilst the Europeans have been wonderful for Australian culture (some younger elements could be exempt from this classification though), certain other ethnic groups have not. The Europeans assimilated into the Australian way of life whilst maintaining their cultural heritage and sharing it with Anglo-Saxon Australians.

Other groups, however, have failed to adapt. This has created a very sharp divide within our society. Now I can already hear the screams of Bombers2003, CharlieG and Lestat, but the level of crime (I'm not talking petty stuff I'm talking gangs and big ticket crimes such as drug dealing) amongst such groups is alarming. There are plenty of nightclubs that I won't go to because of the tendency for these groups to inhabit such premises in large, trouble-seeking crowds.

One ethnic group in particular seem to think that the rules of their homeland (or religion) should apply within a secular state such as Australia. Their push for autonomy in regards to these matters should be suppressed.

 

[Millar]

One ethnic group in particular seem to think that the rules of their homeland (or religion) should apply within a secular state such as Australia. Their push for autonomy in regards to these matters should be suppressed.

Which ethnic group

 

[carlyp]

On another note Carly, whilst the Europeans have been wonderful for Australian culture (some younger elements could be exempt from this classification though), certain other ethnic groups have not. The Europeans assimilated into the Australian way of life whilst maintaining their cultural heritage and sharing it with Anglo-Saxon Australians.

Other groups, however, have failed to adapt. This has created a very sharp divide within our society. Now I can already hear the screams of Bombers2003, CharlieG and Lestat, but the level of crime (I'm not talking petty stuff I'm talking gangs and big ticket crimes such as drug dealing) amongst such groups is alarming. There are plenty of nightclubs that I won't go to because of the tendency for these groups to inhabit such premises in large, trouble-seeking crowds.

One ethnic group in particular seem to think that the rules of their homeland (or religion) should apply within a secular state such as Australia. Their push for autonomy in regards to these matters should be suppressed.

Oh for sure. You're right there. Multiculturalism is a good thing when assimilation happens and each ethnic group can share their heritage and culture with the rest of Australian society.

The last thing I want is the ghettos and that type of thing. In my humble opinion those places breed terrorist types!

 

[Contra Mundum]

That King looks like he got treated pretty poorly by the party itself - not happy with just representation (which by the looks of it he did diligently) and that was the problem. That and Turnbull's money.

You wonder about Labor down here too..we know that Shorten and Combet look almost set to take safe seats down here (the big question mark is Maribyrnong and Bob Sercombe, which looks almost certain to be Shorten's). Not sure where Combet will end up to be honest.

The problem that you have is that these changes, whether they be the right one's or not, have the potential to alienate voters. Remembering back to Lalor in '96 when Jones retired. Gillard only just won the seat...it was a lot tighter than you can imagine. Roxon had similar problems taking over from Willis in Gellibrand.

Your are misinformed - Greg has no political ambitions what so ever. He will shuffle off to academia once his term comes to an end.

 

[Bombers 2003]

Alot would depend on who the Libs put up, also what hurt King in Wentworth was the ALP didn't run a dead campaign.

One otherthing, Kooyong has never Loved Howard, while Wentworth like the rest of Sydney preferrs Howard.King was a 1st termer, while Petro has been around for over 10 years.

Petro was victorian director of the Liberal Party,but i'm not sure he has been in federal parliament that long.Only since 2000?

 

[CoggaRules]

On another note Carly, whilst the Europeans have been wonderful for Australian culture (some younger elements could be exempt from this classification though), certain other ethnic groups have not. The Europeans assimilated into the Australian way of life whilst maintaining their cultural heritage and sharing it with Anglo-Saxon Australians.

Other groups, however, have failed to adapt. This has created a very sharp divide within our society. Now I can already hear the screams of Bombers2003, CharlieG and Lestat, but the level of crime (I'm not talking petty stuff I'm talking gangs and big ticket crimes such as drug dealing) amongst such groups is alarming. There are plenty of nightclubs that I won't go to because of the tendency for these groups to inhabit such premises in large, trouble-seeking crowds.

One ethnic group in particular seem to think that the rules of their homeland (or religion) should apply within a secular state such as Australia. Their push for autonomy in regards to these matters should be suppressed.

relax bozza, you really need to think a little more deeply about the overall picture you have just described. Yes the Euros embraced the aussie culture and factored it otno theirs, but its the old "microwave" oven affect again that quite a few people, and politicians kinda go by, that they want things done in 5 mins, rather than letting things happen over time, just like the Euros took time to get thier heads around the whole thing, the newer ethnicities are in the same boat. It takes a few generations my man, you cnat expect immigrants to step off the plane and say, "How many did RIcho miss?"...lol... can you?
Same miocrawave formula is now in vogue with spreading there democracy and freedom thing whereever, if indeed they are actually doing that and just not creating a mess, because there is more profits in messes. Nations are formed by a plethora of things, but the one thing that really stuffs up formation is when someone else sticks their noses in and says, naaaaa, this is the way you do it, instead of leaving the population drfit towards it, thats why you got revolutions etc in the past, because the people wanted tyrannical govts out, they couldnt do it the right way so they did the way that was doable.
The crime thing you talk about is misconstrued in that it is just par for the course for a modernized, moving more to the right, scoiety, like yeah their are crimes involving new immigrants, but yes there are crimes involivng anyone and everyone, and when its one of those ethnicities that you allude to, the easy answer is, but they didnt embrace our culture, when it really should be, whoever just committed a crime because they were like most others that commit crimes, stupid, derailed, you know the million and ne other things that snap in people?

 

[bmwofoz]

Petro was victorian director of the Liberal Party,but i'm not sure he has been in federal parliament that long.Only since 2000?

Petro took over Kooyong in 1994, after the retirement of Andrew Peacock.

 

[rick James]

Where's all the crying about how the liberal party is overrun with hard right psycho's now?

Petro gets things done through communication and discussion, unlike a barnaby joyce populist mudslinger, petro just solidifies his support, shows what he thinks needs to be changed and lets te PM respond to it from there.

Just really shows how irrelevant Labor are now.

 

[MightyFighting]

Where's all the crying about how the liberal party is overrun with hard right psycho's now?

Petro gets things done through communication and discussion, unlike a barnaby joyce populist mudslinger, petro just solidifies his support, shows what he thinks needs to be changed and lets te PM respond to it from there.

Just really shows how irrelevant Labor are now.

Do you think that having one prominent civil-libertarian backbencher somehow means they're no longer run by "hard-right psychos"?

I also think Petro is the spokesman for a movement within the Liberal Party (a movement that does not control the party), Barnaby is not even in the Liberal Party. Barnaby (I'm fairly sure) is following National Party policy, while his colleagues are following coalition policy. Petro can not vote down legislation (because he's in the House), Barnaby can. They're in completely different positions.

I think that fact that Labor gets mentioned on a thread that has nothing to do with Labor says something.

 

[rick James]

Do you think that having one prominent civil-libertarian backbencher somehow means they're no longer run by "hard-right psychos"?

I also think Petro is the spokesman for a movement within the Liberal Party (a movement that does not control the party), Barnaby is not even in the Liberal Party. Barnaby (I'm fairly sure) is following National Party policy, while his colleagues are following coalition policy. Petro can not vote down legislation (because he's in the House), Barnaby can. They're in completely different positions.

I think that fact that Labor gets mentioned on a thread that has nothing to do with Labor says something.

Yeah, it says they're really irrelevant to the point where I like gloating about it.

Of course Petro is the spokeman for a movement, the very same movement that will run our country when JWH retires. Their true spokesman wouldn't really be allowed to go questioning policy in the media, it's better to have a backbencher do it.

 

[MightyFighting]

Yeah, it says they're really irrelevant to the point where I like gloating about it.

I think you've been eating too many bad egg yolks, man.

Of course Petro is the spokeman for a movement, the very same movement that will run our country when JWH retires. Their true spokesman wouldn't really be allowed to go questioning policy in the media, it's better to have a backbencher do it.

No, I really don't think Costello is behind Georgiou. Costello is one of them.

 

[rick James]

I think you've been eating too many bad egg yolks, man.
No, I really don't think Costello is behind Georgiou. Costello is one of them.

I disagree. I don't know for sure if Costello is behind georgiou or not, but I do know for sure that Howard's policies are not far-right anyway, and that there is a large left leaning section of hte liberal party of which Costello belongs to.

This is democracy at work. the best thing is, petro gets results, he definitely gained a lot for the refugee cause when he last raised concerns, and he does it with dignity and genuinely wants to reach goals via discussion rather than playing it up for hte media.

 

[MightyFighting]

I disagree. I don't know for sure if Costello is behind georgiou or not, but I do know for sure that Howard's policies are not far-right anyway, and that there is a large left leaning section of hte liberal party of which Costello belongs to.

But Costello has been rounding on Howard from the right lately with his "we may go further with IR later", and "we're considering a 30% (!) flat tax."

 

[rick James]

But Costello has been rounding on Howard from the right lately with his "we may go further with IR later", and "we're considering a 30% (!) flat tax."

the IR stuff is definitely more of a right wing ideal. My personal opinion is that it's required for small businesses but if they decide they want similar laws for hte big corps I don't think it will go through.

the 30% flat tax could be a good idea, depends how they implement it. Personally I'd love it.

 

[MightyFighting]

the IR stuff is definitely more of a right wing ideal. My personal opinion is that it's required for small businesses but if they decide they want similar laws for hte big corps I don't think it will go through.

I won't argue about the IR on this thread.

the 30% flat tax could be a good idea, depends how they implement it. Personally I'd love it.

So people who have just had their wages eroded by the IR reforms could have a massive tax increase too.

 

[rick James]

I won't argue about the IR on this thread.
So people who have just had their wages eroded by the IR reforms could have a massive tax increase too.

Well I don't know if people are having their wages eroded, I highly doubt it actually.

But yes, but it won't be me and I would receive substantially more money each fortnight with a 30% flat tax.

 

[MightyFighting]

Well I don't know if people are having their wages eroded, I highly doubt it actually.

It's the whole point of the reforms, "productivity".

 

[carlyp]

I think you've been eating too many bad egg yolks, man.
No, I really don't think Costello is behind Georgiou. Costello is one of them.

I disagree Mightyfighting. Costello is not one of them. He was Young Labor in his early days. He's one of the only moderates on Federal cabinet. Any time he is seen doing anything with the rightwingers is part of the posturing that comes with his position. Simple as that.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

I disagree. I don't know for sure if Costello is behind georgiou or not, but I do know for sure that Howard's policies are not far-right anyway, and that there is a large left leaning section of hte liberal party of which Costello belongs to.

This is democracy at work. the best thing is, petro gets results, he definitely gained a lot for the refugee cause when he last raised concerns, and he does it with dignity and genuinely wants to reach goals via discussion rather than playing it up for hte media.

Costello left leaning? now I've heard it all

 

[carlyp]

Costello left leaning? now I've heard it all

He's not left leaning, simply a moderate. Why did he support the moderate at Young Liberal Presidential elections in January 2005? Because he is a moderate himself. His ideology is completely different from that of Abbott and then different again to men like Howard and Downer.

 

[rick James]

Costello left leaning? now I've heard it all

he's left of the right, if that makes sense. a moderate.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

There's nothing moderate about him economically and I don't think there's much evidence that he has an opinion about anything else.

 

[carlyp]

There's nothing moderate about him economically and I don't think there's much evidence that he has an opinion about anything else.

He's a republican. Thats one major difference between him and the others in his party. Most are monarchists.

Let me assure you, the guy is a moderate. In the party he is percieved as the savior to the moderates in the party. Having spoken to him at one or two functions I get the feeling he's just biding his time, making allies not enemies before he becomes leader of the Liberal Party. He is the proclaimed next leader of the party, a deal has been set in almost concrete which gives him the support. That is probably why we haven't heard alot about Costellos policys on other issues that may differ from the norm. I hear he simply doesnt want to make waves right now.

Look, I'll even point to his close friendship with Andrew Peacock as a sign of his moderate ideals. Andrew Peacock was hated by the real rightwingers in the party. Just read Patrick O'briens Factions Feuds and Fancies-the Liberals for more evidence of it. Even if you read Kennetts biography they talk of Costello and Michael Kroger (Victorian Liberal headkicker) and Kennet being the only Liberals with moderate views on any thing.

 

[Bombers 2003]

He's not left leaning, simply a moderate. Why did he support the moderate at Young Liberal Presidential elections in January 2005? Because he is a moderate himself. His ideology is completely different from that of Abbott and then different again to men like Howard and Downer.

Carlyp.
Do you really think Alexander Downer really has a similar outlook to Howard?

 

[carlyp]

Carlyp.
Do you really think Alexander Downer really has a similar outlook to Howard?

Look, I like to classify the Liberal Party into three big groupings.

1/ The ultra right wing conservatives such as Tony Abbott and Alex Hawke. They dont believe in abortion or homosexual rights. Very conservative ideologically.

2/The right wing such as John Howard and Alexander Downer, even Brendon Neilson, Bronwyn Bishop. These people are conservatives but dont have as strong a faith as the ultra right wing hence their not really bothered with the abortion debate or homosexual rights. Their main interests are in Defence and security.

3/ The moderates such as Peter Costello (perhaps he's even half way between the moderates and the rightwing group) and Christopher Pyne. These guys generally hold quite liberal (in the Amercian sense of the word) views on most things. Their interested in mainly stopping the ultra right wing from gaining to much power or forcing through too much legislation such as illegalising abortion. They generally have a fairly centralist view on justice, education and the like. Most would be labor if it wernt for their vehement dislike of the Union movement.

So to answer your question, yes I think Howard and Downer have a simmilar outlook. Do I think they get along well and are bosom buddys? No Im not suggesting that at all. However you can probably make a good argument for them both being quite old fashoned and stuck in the 1950s way of thinking. There may be issues that they disagree on however both would be firm believers in King/Queen, God and Country. Old fashioned liberals, without the heavily religous background of the ultra right wing. You may even say that it is a simple divide between catholocism in the ultra right wing and a more protestant and anglican belief in the right wing. There was plenty of media attention a few months back about Opus Dei getting a foothold in the Liberal Party to back this theory of mine up.