Pick 17 options

[WaynesWorld19]

During the trade period Adelaide were trying to do a trade for for pick 17.

It has been sttaed Adelaide would have traded #17 for:

Selwood
Damon White

In hindsight with us getting Pfieffer would we have been better off doing any of the trades or is Pfieffer our preferred (or Douglas for that fact)

Personally I'm happy we kept Pfieffer!

Port don't give up KPP less there are floors in their game and Selwood was a tagger.

Both I would have welcomed to the club but I actually rate our draft boys higher

Thoughts??

 

[Markthirtytwo]

During the trade period Adelaide were trying to do a trade for for pick 17.

It has been sttaed Adelaide would have traded #17 for:

Selwood
Damon White

In hindsight with us getting Pfieffer would we have been better off doing any of the trades or is Pfieffer our preferred (or Douglas for that fact)

Personally I'm happy we kept Pfieffer!

Port don't give up KPP less there are floors in their game and Selwood was a tagger.

Both I would have welcomed to the club but I actually rate our draft boys higher

Thoughts??

Personally I am glad we didnt trade for White for two reasons.

The first is exactly what you said, they dont give away someone who they think would fit into their game plan plus become a star. He hasnt set the world on fire as yet. Could be a late developer though. On top of that, bit sick of their cast offs.

The second one is that it didnt enhance their first pick. They still had to go at 30 and pick up what was left of a very average draft, whereas if they had #17 they too would have probably gone for Ffieffer.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I am still a bit peeved off that we didn't get more for Watts. Lets face it a promising key forward for a promising HB flanker is hardly something to crow about. We downgraded to matter which way you look at it unless of course Pfeiffer becomes a Simon Goodwin and Watts ends up being Daniel Schell. Time will tell if we did well out of that draft. As of right now, I think we are behind the 8 ball. No disrespect to Pfeiffer.

Moving away from that, we go pick 17 and thats what we had to work with. I wouldn't have minded to pick up a quality player in the trade week for that pick. Since none were really available for pick 17, I was quite happy to keep 2 first round picks. In other words, I am happy we didn't give up pick 17 for White and happy that Selwood decided not to come our way.

Hopefully Pfeiffer develops into a gun AFL player and plays 200 odd games for the Crows

 

[Gets!]

By all reports Douglas and Pfieffer are training the house down and are a huge shot at playing a decent amount of games next year.

Douglas' work ethic is most mentionable.

I wouldn't be surprised if Douglas and Murphy turn out to be the top 2 midfielders of the 2005 Draft. Just got a good feeling we are onto a good thing with Richie.

 

[cro_Magnum]

During the trade period Adelaide were trying to do a trade for for pick 17.

It has been sttaed Adelaide would have traded #17 for:

Selwood
Damon White

In hindsight with us getting Pfieffer would we have been better off doing any of the trades or is Pfieffer our preferred (or Douglas for that fact)

Personally I'm happy we kept Pfieffer!

Port don't give up KPP less there are floors in their game and Selwood was a tagger.

Both I would have welcomed to the club but I actually rate our draft boys higher

Thoughts??

Don't know if White has a floor, but I think Port feel he's reached the ceiling and will go no further. He was supposed to be the new Tredrea but may turn out to be the new Thurstans instead.

 

[Bockchoy67]

I am still a bit peeved off that we didn't get more for Watts. Lets face it a promising key forward for a promising HB flanker is hardly something to crow about. We downgraded to matter which way you look at it unless of course Pfeiffer becomes a Simon Goodwin and Watts ends up being Daniel Schell. Time will tell if we did well out of that draft. As of right now, I think we are behind the 8 ball. No disrespect to Pfeiffer.

Moving away from that, we go pick 17 and thats what we had to work with. I wouldn't have minded to pick up a quality player in the trade week for that pick. Since none were really available for pick 17, I was quite happy to keep 2 first round picks. In other words, I am happy we didn't give up pick 17 for White and happy that Selwood decided not to come our way.

Hopefully Pfeiffer develops into a gun AFL player and plays 200 odd games for the Crows

Whilst he's played this role more than as a midfielder, the AFC (and myself) see him as a future midfielder - he certainly has many of the tools needed for such a role.

IMO he will eventuate like Simon Goodwin (not necerssarily the ability, but the transition from the backline to the midfield).

 

[Bockchoy67]

By all reports Douglas and Pfieffer are training the house down and are a huge shot at playing a decent amount of games next year.

Terrific to hear.

 

[conVINCEd]

By all reports Douglas and Pfieffer are training the house down and are a huge shot at playing a decent amount of games next year.

Which reports are these and where can I read them?

 

[Gets!]

Just word of mouth from people high up at the Club.

Infact all draftees have done well to impress, and Bernie Vince has fitted in very well.

With regards to Vince, he has some amazing skills and it's no wonder St Kilda were interested...Jim Watts would have been watching the game where Fergus kicked 10, and obviously spread the word back to the Saints recruiters. I saw the game too and there was a passage of play where he burst through a pack and nailed Watts on the chest, from a drop punt off the outside of his boot.

I think we have done VERY well in the recruiting department in 2005.

Also another note on Brad Sugars, there is a photo of him on the AFC website and it is very encouraging to see he has bulked up a lot since the last time I saw him. I'm starting to feel pretty happy with our rookie selections and PSD selections as well. Would much rather have had Porps than a recycled player. Here's hoping he can do a Camporeale, late bloomer, and go on and play 150+ games.

I have a feeling we will be looking at our team on the park in 2010 (after another premiership) and lots of our established guns will have come from the draft just gone

 

[GoSarge]

I am still a bit peeved off that we didn't get more for Watts. Lets face it a promising key forward for a promising HB flanker is hardly something to crow about. We downgraded to matter which way you look at it unless of course Pfeiffer becomes a Simon Goodwin and Watts ends up being Daniel Schell. Time will tell if we did well out of that draft. As of right now, I think we are behind the 8 ball. No disrespect to Pfeiffer.

Agreed. The 2 years of effort we put in to Watts was wasted. We did the dirty work for another team and now they benefit.

Pfeiffer was a good pick up, thank god we didnt trade for Selwood or White, but with any recruit no matter how good, we still have to put years of effort in to building him up physically and mentally before he will become a regular in the team.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Just word of mouth from people high up at the Club.

Infact all draftees have done well to impress, and Bernie Vince has fitted in very well.

With regards to Vince, he has some amazing skills and it's no wonder St Kilda were interested...Jim Watts would have been watching the game where Fergus kicked 10, and obviously spread the word back to the Saints recruiters. I saw the game too and there was a passage of play where he burst through a pack and nailed Watts on the chest, from a drop punt off the outside of his boot.

Seems to be a quote from a radio "propaganda" interview on 5AA???

With regard to the North V WWT - its the only SANFL game I have a tape on - yes Vince did a nice passage of play that you talk about BUT

He was also caught holding the ball being very slow to dispose, gave away 3 free kicks with ultra clumsy tackles and looked like a rabbit in headlights for most of the game.

However I will say that he got better and better as the game went on and the passage you talked about was in the last qtr.

For a 21 year old he is IMO about the same stage of development as the other 18 year old draftees. Pace average, physique below requirements but good footy brain and a one touch player.

The big question here is how fast and how much development is in him? - the AFC must believe he has a big upside and quickly

Vince = Doughty?

 

[macca23]

Seems to be a quote from a radio "propaganda" interview on 5AA???

With regard to the North V WWT - its the only SANFL game I have a tape on - yes Vince did a nice passage of play that you talk about BUT

He was also caught holding the ball being very slow to dispose, gave away 3 free kicks with ultra clumsy tackles and looked like a rabbit in headlights for most of the game.

However I will say that he got better and better as the game went on and the passage you talked about was in the last qtr.

For a 21 year old he is IMO about the same stage of development as the other 18 year old draftees. Pace average, physique below requirements but good footy brain and a one touch player.

The big question here is how fast and how much development is in him? - the AFC must believe he has a big upside and quickly

Vince = Doughty?

You're a bit harsh WW when you consider that the lad has only played 4 league games, and that was maybe his first or second game.

He went on to play an absolute blinder against Port Adelaide and demonstrated that little bit of magic that sets a player above the rest.

He'll also benefit greatly in fitness from the tougher regime at AFL level.

Personally I thought he was a good pick up and was pleased that we did.

Vince definitely does not = Doughty IMO.

 

[Stiffy_18]

You're a bit harsh WW when you consider that the lad has only played 4 league games, and that was maybe his first or second game.

He went on to play an absolute blinder against Port Adelaide and demonstrated that little bit of magic that sets a player above the rest.

He'll also benefit greatly in fitness from the tougher regime at AFL level.

Personally I thought he was a good pick up and was pleased that we did.

Vince definitely does not = Doughty IMO.

I think its too early to call IMHO.

Lets not forget that at the start of 2005 Vince couldn't keep a spot in the Eagles reserves and was send back to the country to play in the local league. He obviously had a pretty decent finals series for the Eagles and played a cracker of a prelim final against Port in the wet. Thats 1 good game that I think send his stocks right up.

There is a clear danger of recruiting someone on the basis of one good game. From all our draftees this year (not counting rookie draft) he is clearly the biggest risk. With 18 year olds you know that its a risk that you hope pays off. With Vince, its somewhat of a bigger risk. He is older than other 3 national draftees but he is not a hell of a lot more advanced than the other 3. Pfeiffer as a 17/18 year old played a handful of senior games for Norwood.

Of all the draftees this year, I think Jason Porplyzia is the safest bet that could come in and play AFL footy straight away. I am not sure he quite has the engine for a midfield role just yet but certainly he is a capable small forward/defender at AFL level.

I am not sure if Vince will be better than Doughty. Time will tell.

 

[theorangeapple]

I wouldn't be surprised if Douglas and Murphy turn out to be the top 2 midfielders of the 2005 Draft. Just got a good feeling we are onto a good thing with Richie.

Pretty big call.

 

[Stiffy_18]

By all reports Douglas and Pfieffer are training the house down and are a huge shot at playing a decent amount of games next year.

Douglas' work ethic is most mentionable.

I wouldn't be surprised if Douglas and Murphy turn out to be the top 2 midfielders of the 2005 Draft. Just got a good feeling we are onto a good thing with Richie.

I would call it a pre-season hype. We hear the same thing every single year yet not many draftees get AFL games in their first year.

Last year we were hearing that Meesen will get some games but he played most of the year in Norwood magoons.

I would be very surprised if Douglas and Pfeiffer get games (especially Douglas) in their first year (all things being equal of course ).

As for your last comment, both would have to be pretty bloody special to be better than Shannon Hurn. Its a HUGE call. If Douglas gets to be as good as Tyson Edwards, its pants down and lap around the table time.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I think its too early to call IMHO.

Lets not forget that at the start of 2005 Vince couldn't keep a spot in the Eagles reserves and was send back to the country to play in the local league. He obviously had a pretty decent finals series for the Eagles and played a cracker of a prelim final against Port in the wet. Thats 1 good game that I think send his stocks right up.

There is a clear danger of recruiting someone on the basis of one good game. From all our draftees this year (not counting rookie draft) he is clearly the biggest risk. With 18 year olds you know that its a risk that you hope pays off. With Vince, its somewhat of a bigger risk. He is older than other 3 national draftees but he is not a hell of a lot more advanced than the other 3. Pfeiffer as a 17/18 year old played a handful of senior games for Norwood.

Of all the draftees this year, I think Jason Porplyzia is the safest bet that could come in and play AFL footy straight away. I am not sure he quite has the engine for a midfield role just yet but certainly he is a capable small forward/defender at AFL level.

I am not sure if Vince will be better than Doughty. Time will tell.

Yes thats the way I see Vinces situation as well.

He's certainly got some good skills and footy brain - but he's a risk as you say.

We'll get a pretty good indication early in the season - hell we can't wait 3 years with this guy - he'll be 24?

don't discount the Doughty comparison

 

[outback jack]

I am still a bit peeved off that we didn't get more for Watts. Lets face it a promising key forward for a promising HB flanker is hardly something to crow about. We downgraded to matter which way you look at it unless of course Pfeiffer becomes a Simon Goodwin and Watts ends up being Daniel Schell. Time will tell if we did well out of that draft. As of right now, I think we are behind the 8 ball. No disrespect to Pfeiffer.

Yes the recruiting/trading department need a bullet, good to see you finally agree, maybe NC needs to identify it as a weakness of his too. Doing a deal second day of trade week with no other trade in the pipe was a disgrace and highlights a great weakness of the club no doubt. Not terribly difficult to string it out a bit longer atleast, kept them sweating a bit. Considering where hurn slipped to, it emphasizes this really. st kilda and Jim watts will be happy no doubt, considering the situation, they paid the minimum you could hope for.

 

[outback jack]

Personally I am glad we didnt trade for White for two reasons.

The first is exactly what you said, they dont give away someone who they think would fit into their game plan plus become a star. He hasnt set the world on fire as yet. Could be a late developer though. On top of that, bit sick of their cast offs.

and port have been pumping up a few of their youngsters as the 'next big thing' for ages. As well as having '30 players who'd jump into any afl team' (the gimps words himself) but when it really came down to it this yr, despite marks poor attempts at coaching, it was pretty obvious that some of the talent was average at best. White is one of these at AFL level at least and we shouldnt pay anymore than a 2nd rounder regardless what he does a SANFL level.

 

[Mego Red]

Considering where hurn slipped to, it emphasizes this really.

Aaarrrgh, that's true. We really did drop the ball on this.

 

[Mego Red]

Also another note on Brad Sugars, there is a photo of him on the AFC website and it is very encouraging to see he has bulked up a lot since the last time I saw him. I'm starting to feel pretty happy with our rookie selections and PSD selections as well.

I saw that photo -

Do we know who is who? I suppose I'm not losing any sleep over the pre season selections -

But I would have rather gone Grima (PSD) - Porp/Pfitzner/Logan/Elliot.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Also another note on Brad Sugars, there is a photo of him on the AFC website and it is very encouraging to see he has bulked up a lot since the last time I saw him. I'm starting to feel pretty happy with our rookie selections and PSD selections as well. /QUOTE]

I saw that photo -

Do we know who is who? I suppose I'm not losing any sleep over the pre season selections -

From left: Elliot, Redden Bonaddio, & Sugars

 

[Stiffy_18]

Yes the recruiting/trading department need a bullet, good to see you finally agree, maybe NC needs to identify it as a weakness of his too. Doing a deal second day of trade week with no other trade in the pipe was a disgrace and highlights a great weakness of the club no doubt. Not terribly difficult to string it out a bit longer atleast, kept them sweating a bit. Considering where hurn slipped to, it emphasizes this really. st kilda and Jim watts will be happy no doubt, considering the situation, they paid the minimum you could hope for.

Jack, I have always said we should have got more for Watts. Thats nothing new. They don't need a bullett because I think overall they are OK but they handled the Watts trade very badly IMHO.

 

[GoSarge]

Jack, I have always said we should have got more for Watts. Thats nothing new. They don't need a bullett because I think overall they are OK but they handled the Watts trade very badly IMHO.

Yes they did, but in the end, we were going to struggle to get anything better than pick 17 for him. Perhaps if we held out, they may have rolled over at the death and thrown in a bonus second or third rounder for him aswell, but who knows.

I'm just glad we didn't pass on the pick for Selwood or White.

 

[outback jack]

I saw that photo -

Do we know who is who? I suppose I'm not losing any sleep over the pre season selections -

But I would have rather gone Grima (PSD) - Porp/Pfitzner/Logan/Elliot.

they look pretty solid for 17 yr olds.

 

[outback jack]

Jack, I have always said we should have got more for Watts. Thats nothing new. They don't need a bullett because I think overall they are OK but they handled the Watts trade very badly IMHO.

a bullet wouldnt go astray though, the art of negotiation needs to be learnt quick sometime soon. It wouldnt be possible that both gary ayres and Neil craig are poor at it, must be someone else whos not quite up to scratch.