News Sam Hayes signs for North Melbourne VFL

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RussellEbertHandball said:
So all he does is punch numbers on draft night? He has a bigger say in our list management than that.


What do you base that on?? The hope box? How many lists have you looked at and seen how much experience other sides have.

Look at West Coast they have an all Oz ruckman and great athlete in Nick Natanui a Ryder type and have gone for different types of back up in Vardy, Lycett, Giles and and they decide to go with extra back up with rookieing Petrie in 2017. And how did Vardy and Petrie go against Ryder in that final? The WCE have cut Giles and Petrie for 2018 and I dont know who they drafted but I would argue Vardy and Lycett and a no game kid are better and deeper back up than the no gamers of Frampton Ladhams and Hayes. s**t Freo took 2 tonight, thanks to comments by Macca19 tonight, to have 5 on their list.

And sounds like we were going to copy 2014 and 2016 and go in with just 3 rucks which turned out sub optimal with injuries and suspensions, if Hayes didn't slide big time.
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Careful with the borderline "after this, therefore because of this" thought re 2017 mate. We dropped Trengove some weeks before so Ryder at the end of a season after a year away, had a heavier load dropped on him and we saw the edge taken off. This far we agree. And West Coast rightly targeted that, particularly when they saw Impey picked ahead of Trengove for the final (yes I know its not that simple). But it's also not just about the number of rucks on a list. In the case of 2017, IMO, we had an "effective enough" number of them but didn't use one part timer in one critical game. And we *just* ever so slightly but critically mismanaged Ryder's load at the end. Our bad.

You're also right that we were lucky that he didn't get injured late season. If we'd won 1-2 more games earlier I wouldn't have been surprised to see Ryder rotated out for Trengove before the end of the season. As it was we didn't dare and got a home final by little more than the value of one genius tap to Robbie multiplied by brain naps by two Saints defenders. Paradoxically if Ryder had got injured earlier in the season Trengove might well still be here because he'd have "heroically failed to break even" in ruck and the "full time forward" experiment wouldn't have got a proper enough run for him to definitively fail it. And in that case Sam probably wouldn't be here, hell we might not even have chased Watts.

OK, enough "what ifs" for 24 hours ;)
 

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missionpossible said:
When I said we would get a slider I did not think it would be him. WOW
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I remember reading your comment and thinking what is a slider? 20 spots from consensus thinking? He has gone about 32. Inside Footy had him at 17 Callum Twomey had him at 14 at the end of October and then he slide to 25.

What do you reckon the reason he slide so far mp? Poor endurance? Too skinny and clubs didnt want development year. I think he ha the 2nd worst endurance yo-yo test at the combine this year.

Tom Brady had the 2nd worst ever 40 yard sprint recorded by a QB in the history of the combine up to when he recorded his time in 2000. Might luck out and get someone who proves the tests wrong.
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
I remember reading your comment and thinking what is a slider? 20 spots from consensus thinking? He has gone about 32. Inside Footy had him at 17 Callum Twomey had him at 14 at the end of October and then he slide to 25.

What do you reckon the reason he slide so far mp? Poor endurance? Too skinny and clubs didnt want development year. I think he ha the 2nd worst endurance yo-yo test at the combine this year.

Tom Brady had the 2nd worst ever 40 yard sprint recorded by a QB in the history of the combine up to when he recorded his time in 2000. Might luck out and get someone who proves the tests wrong.
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He had the poorest gps numbers for a ruckman (not sure if it was u/18s, tac or combine) as reported in the SEN draft audio.
 
Portology said:
Careful with the borderline "after this, therefore because of this" thought re 2017 mate. We dropped Trengove some weeks before so Ryder at the end of a season after a year away, had a heavier load dropped on him and we saw the edge taken off. This far we agree. And West Coast rightly targeted that, particularly when they saw Impey picked ahead of Trengove for the final (yes I know its not that simple). But it's also not just about the number of rucks on a list. In the case of 2017, IMO, we had an "effective enough" number of them but didn't use one part timer in one critical game. And we *just* ever so slightly but critically mismanaged Ryder's load at the end. Our bad.

You're also right that we were lucky that he didn't get injured late season. If we'd won 1-2 more games earlier I wouldn't have been surprised to see Ryder rotated out for Trengove before the end of the season. As it was we didn't dare and got a home final by little more than the value of one genius tap to Robbie multiplied by brain naps by two Saints defenders. Paradoxically if Ryder had got injured earlier in the season Trengove might well still be here because he'd have "heroically failed to break even" in ruck and the "full time forward" experiment wouldn't have got a proper enough run for him to definitively fail it. And in that case Sam probably wouldn't be here, hell we might not even have chased Watts.

OK, enough "what ifs" for 24 hours ;)
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And isn't that an example of poor planning and poor list management for the pointy end of the season?

I remember watching Crackers Keehan talking about Barassi about 15 years ago and one example he gave of Barassi's thinking was that he played Crackers in the back pocket in Rd 3. Crackers asked Barassi at training why he played him there and will he have to play back pocket again? He said Barassi replied that he might need to play him there in September as a match up and thought it was good to give him some practice and see how he goes. I'd like to see a bit more of that type of longer term planning and thinking for what if situations.
 
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RussellEbertHandball said:
And isn't that an example of poor planning and poor list management for the pointy end of the season?

I remember watching Crackers Keehan talking about Barassi about 15 years ago and one example he gave of Barassi's thinking was that he played Crackers in the back pocket in Rd 3. Crackers asked Barassi at training why he played him there and will he have to play back pocket again? He said Barassi replied that he might need to play him there in September as a match up and thought it was god to give him some practice and see how he goes. I'd like to see a bit more of that type of longer term planning and thinking for what if situations.
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I tend to think of list management as that thing what happens across seasons, because kids develop and older folks... get older.

In season though... I think that bit of non-micromanagement was one significant error, yes. In season planning "with what you've already got" isn't list management in my mind. For example, the bottle in front of me is empty, and in Sydney I can't now walk down the road and buy another. Even though my credit card is still reasonably ok. I've got some decent bottles in the cupboard but they won't be ready for a couple of years so I'm not going to commit vinfanticide upon them. Like playing Marshall or Billy when not ready. "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me..."
 
Coobk001 said:
Good to at least hear Parker confess that we didn't really need a ruck. So at least he didn't go out hunting it. That makes me happy because if he was picked on needs I'd be worried. However we've obviously picked him because he waz too good to refuse so that's a great start.
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On that note, I noticed on the draft day coverage that most clubs were taking their time before making their picks that late in the draft. Port couldn’t pick Hayes fast enough. We were only on the clock for about 10 seconds before he was picked. I get the impression that Parker and co were as shocked to see him available at #47 as we were.
 
Only knock can seem to find is his tank but if Port of all clubs don't seem concerned about it I don't see why anyone else should be and you do have to like how quickly we changed our mind about needing another ruck when he was available it was like he was the obvious pick at the start of the night. He does play with intent think we have done well. Perhaps bad news for Close in the rookie draft?
 
Shaucob_Burjan said:
Looks like a towering lumbering type of ruck that are somewhat being phased out for the athletic rucks.

Still though, like this pick. Different mould to Frampton who isn't a dominate hitouts type of ruckman, while Hayes looks like one. Looks like a natural talent in the highlights.
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Based on his highlights I think he moves quite well for someone 203cm. He has probably come to the right club as a developing ruckman, could be a 3 to 5 year slow burn.
 
scottjr said:
Only knock can seem to find is his tank but if Port of all clubs don't seem concerned about it I don't see why anyone else should be and you do have to like how quickly we changed our mind about needing another ruck when he was available it was like he was the obvious pick at the start of the night. He does play with intent think we have done well. Perhaps bad news for Close in the rookie draft?
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We have 1 rookie draft place - presumably Thomas.
 

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RussellEbertHandball said:
I remember reading your comment and thinking what is a slider? 20 spots from consensus thinking? He has gone about 32. Inside Footy had him at 17 Callum Twomey had him at 14 at the end of October and then he slide to 25.

What do you reckon the reason he slide so far mp? Poor endurance? Too skinny and clubs didnt want development year. I think he ha the 2nd worst endurance yo-yo test at the combine this year.

Tom Brady had the 2nd worst ever 40 yard sprint recorded by a QB in the history of the combine up to when he recorded his time in 2000. Might luck out and get someone who proves the tests wrong.
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I think with free agency (and players demanding trades to specific cluns before they even reach free agency) clubs are going to be very wary of long term prospects.

You take the risk of going a few years with an undeveloped player taking up a list spot.

Then you take the risk that they will actually develop into the player you hope.

Then you take the risk that they won't just up and leave if they do develop having not played much league footy.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 
Schulzenfest said:
On that note, I noticed on the draft day coverage that most clubs were taking their time before making their picks that late in the draft. Port couldn’t pick Hayes fast enough. We were only on the clock for about 10 seconds before he was picked. I get the impression that Parker and co were as shocked to see him available at #47 as we were.
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A genuine Start the car moment. ;)

As I posted in another thread I saw Sam play last year and wished we had a top 5 pick this year. Like Macca19 I never even considered him as a possible get.

On a historical note it's fitting that seeing as we once had Magenta, now we have Riff Raff. :D Apologies. I'll get my coat and go do the Time Warp :p
 
scottjr said:
Only knock can seem to find is his tank but if Port of all clubs don't seem concerned about it I don't see why anyone else should be and you do have to like how quickly we changed our mind about needing another ruck when he was available it was like he was the obvious pick at the start of the night. He does play with intent think we have done well. Perhaps bad news for Close in the rookie draft?
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That's fine, we can build his tank. A lot of ruckmen start out with poor endurance. We'll build the fitness base over a few years, which is normal.
 
There are definitely parts of his game that need to improve but the raw talent is there in spades. Get him fitter and he will be a star. He's going to learn from the best ruckman in the AFL and has all the traits to make it
 
Just wow! Who cares about the tank, he won't be playing for at least 2-3 years anyway. That's unreal we got him, I had him going top 10.
 
MadFan23 said:
That's fine, we can build his tank. A lot of ruckmen start out with poor endurance. We'll build the fitness base over a few years, which is normal.
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You really don't want to be saying " We were shocked he was still there at our pick " How often though do you get a tall who you feel will obviously be able to influence games at this pick. It has the Robbie Gray feel about it. People will scratch their heads.
 
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