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Pitt

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Really can't see the kid making it unfortunately. Has no pace which is often the strength of an outside player. Doesn't have the poise of a Pendlebury/ ex Mundy, doesn't have the attack on the contest you need either.
Think it is more of an issue of the development of our young players. Apart from those expected to make there mark (Hill, Fyfe, Morabito (?) with the exception being Clark and de boer) our development of our young players has been terrible. You just need to look down the road to see the perfect example.
 
E Shed said:
Exactly there is no comparison with Pitt.
We aren't crucifying the kid, just saying he doesn't look like he has some of the attributes you want in your first round draft pick. He has some (skills, poise, class) but so far hasn't displayed much in the way of desire or attack on the contest. Crozier and Neale have both gone past him already in their first year in those terms.
Doesn't men he won't make some sort of player but it's hard to see a role for him at this stage.
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Why would he even start the thread? The last line of the OP basically said he deserves to get delisted. I mean I can understand a bit of a whinge in the selection thread or something.. but surely nobody can think that poorly of someone so young? Surprised more people don't defend him.
 
The problem is will it ever come? kids who are built like a rake turn into adults built like a rake. There are 18 year olds who are pushing him off the ball. I'm willing to give him a 3rd year on the list. But if after 3 years there is limited improvement, he will be a delist target.
 
Jezzitizle said:
Why would he even start the thread? The last line of the OP basically said he deserves to get delisted. I mean I can understand a bit of a whinge in the selection thread or something.. but surely nobody can think that poorly of someone so young? Surprised more people don't defend him.
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It's an opinion and a topic for discussion, that's all. Not a lynching.
I've spent lots of time defending Pitt but even I have to admit he's not showing a lot at the moment (from WAFL performance mostly). I don't think he should be playing AFL till he develops a bit more. But I'm happy to be wrong.
 

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The sub out was a fail. Crichton was willing and gave us a bit of run, looks to have lifted his game to a level well above Pitt at the moment. Not sure if Pitt will make it at the top level. He'll have to do a lot of work, not sure if it's a lack of hunger or whether he still a bit unsure of himself.
 
Jezzitizle said:
Why would he even start the thread? The last line of the OP basically said he deserves to get delisted. I mean I can understand a bit of a whinge in the selection thread or something.. but surely nobody can think that poorly of someone so young? Surprised more people don't defend him.
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Someone so young give me a break, geez some people use the word kid so loosely at times makes me laugh he's 19 ffs as i've said before i watched him play all his Wafl games at Perth and he struggled so much that he got dropped to the ressies, and to make things worse he gets moved to EP because Perth couldn't guarantee him a league game, says more about Pitt than anything.
 
What hurts the most with Pitt is that we could have had a darling and pav forward line.

The one thing I like in young players is their mongrel and a relentless attack on the ball. Player's like Neale, Crozier, Shuey. You can tell when they get beaten they absolutely hate it and will go in even harder next time (Hill doesn't have this but his other attributes somewhat makes up for it). Pitt doesn't seem to have this fire in the belly.

It's too early for a final verdict on Pitt but there aren't many skinny rakes running around in the top 5 sides at the moment.
 
Pitt wasn't a first round draft pick, he was our pick in the first round but it was pick #20 and after a dozen of the best young kids were already taken prior to the draft.

It's not like he was pick # 10 this year, I'll give him more time to fill out.
 
Jezzitizle said:
Why would he even start the thread? The last line of the OP basically said he deserves to get delisted.
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All I'm doing is posting my thoughts on him now I feel I've seen enough to make a call, but early enough to make it interesting. There's no point waiting until someone is certain delist material before making a call is there? It's hardly going to be an interesting discussion topic if I start a thread detailing why I don't think JVB will make it is it?

I made the same call on Hinkley in his second year in his player thread and I did it in the same fashion - by outlining his strength and weaknesses and detailing why I didn't think he had the attributes to be a good AFL player. (I also made a thread suggesting similarities between Mark Harvey and Damien Drum years before it became cool to bag poor old Harves, which I copped a bit of stick for at the time).

And I never said he should be delisted right now - I just said that if I had to make a call now I can't see him making it.
 
I have often defended Pitt because he still has heaps of development left in him. But one thing that pissed me of to no end was that from the get go in the last quarter I watched him puffing like crazy and slowly jogging around the ground with no effort. He was the sub who came on in the last quarter as fresh as anything and showed no desire to help the team win. Should be dropped straight away after that.
 
E Shed said:
Exactly there is no comparison with Pitt.
We aren't crucifying the kid, just saying he doesn't look like he has some of the attributes you want in your first round draft pick. He has some (skills, poise, class) but so far hasn't displayed much in the way of desire or attack on the contest. Crozier and Neale have both gone past him already in their first year in those terms.
Doesn't men he won't make some sort of player but it's hard to see a role for him at this stage.
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he was the best kick in the draft and is rumoured to be our best kick off both sides of hi body

Coming from 10 years of football and still cant kick it 20 meters accurately everytime on my left, this is a big attirbute, i know people that cant play for shit but play at wafl level becasue they can kick just as well with their left than right (not many)
 
Jezzitizle said:
And Pitt didnt have some good games in his first season? I saw him dive head first with oncoming traffic into at least one contest last night.

One of the knocks on Hill was that he wouldn't go 100% into contests. As he's put on weight he's been more willing to get in there. Same will happen with Pitt. He clearly hasn't got the strength to stay over the ball at the moment, but when it comes he will seem a harder footballer.

He's a good kick off either side, makes pretty good decisions, and has clean hands. And will be a goal kicker. For me, he will eventually run through the middle. Probably in about 3 years.

As for it being embarrassing having other players go past him, well no, it happens all the time, at every club. Some kids are just ready to go. Vultures.
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Pitt had good games? Sorry, Hill was BOG in just his sixth game. You could see what he could do. Pitt had one passable game in 2011. He struggles in the WAFL.

This idea that you can't make a call on a player after two years is ludicrous. Clubs do it all the time. They did it to Houghton and Bollenhagen, and there's nothing about Pitt that suggests he has more to offer than those two.
 
Ahhh, the age old BF Freo cop out. Don't like a player? Pull something out of your arse an call him slow.

The comparisons to hill are poor. Totally different players.
 

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Not really. I don't think he's been insituations where he's needed to show pace either. He's definitely got the Mundy lope about him though. He's not one of those players who runs 20m then bombs it, he get's the ball and looks to pick someone out up field. Pace is almost a non factor in his game.

The statement doesn't just apply to this thread either, it's just one of the stock standard bs statements you see on our boards, just like dumb footballer/decision maker. It's an easy cop out that is hard refute with evidence.
 
IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN said:
Not really. I don't think he's been insituations where he's needed to show pace either. He's definitely got the Mundy lope about him though.

The statement doesn't just apply to this thread either, it's just one of the stock standard bs statements you see on our boards, just like dumb footballer/decision maker. It's an easy cop out that is hard refute with evidence.
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So how many Stephen Dodd moments is a player required to have before we are allowed to say they make poor decisions? Or is one never allowed to make this judgement because it's intangible and impossible to prove?
 
E Shed said:
So how many Stephen Dodd moments is a player required to have before we are allowed to say they make poor decisions? Or is one never allowed to make this judgement because it's intangible and impossible to prove?
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Are you referring to Pitt here?

The thing with Dodd is, it wasn't just poor decision making, it was poor skills, no composure under pressure, the lot. I think it's fairly easy to differentiate between an easy excuse E shed, and a player who is genuinely absolutely shithouse.
 
I've seen Pitt chase and fall a metre behind every 10 metres against opponents who aren't fast. He's slow. Nothing wrong with being slow, you just need other attributes. Pitt doesn't seem to have enough of them.
 
IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN said:
Are you referring to Pitt here?

The thing with Dodd is, it wasn't just poor decision making, it was poor skills, no composure under pressure, the lot. I think it's fairly easy to differentiate between an easy excuse E shed, and a player who is genuinely absolutely shithouse.
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Exactly, and yet you say it's a cop-out to label someone as a poor decision maker!
I'm not talking about Pitt, I just think it's pretty easy to spot poor decision makers if you watch enough footy.
 

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E Shed said:
Exactly, and yet you say it's a cop-out to label someone as a poor decision maker!
I'm not talking about Pitt, I just think it's pretty easy to spot poor decision makers if you watch enough footy.
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No, It's a cop out to label someone as a poor decision maker because that's the best ammunition that you can come up with to fir your agenda, it's a cop out when it quite clearly isn't the case.

I totally agree that it's fairly easy to spot the spud if you have enough of a clue, but frankly not too many football supporters do, and our club sure as hell has it's fair share of those that don't. Generally they're the ones who use them. Can't pin point the exact flaw in player X's game? no worries, jump on the mob bus and say whatever the guy in the post above you said, that'll do.

It's somewhat like this:

 
I kind of agree with the what you're saying IAJM, however, on a scale of Michael Walters to Stephen Hill, it's plainly obvious which side Pitt is sitting closer too.
 
Hi all. I am not going to debate on the chrystal baling of Pitt's value to the side, however, I think comments on his age and development need to be considered.

As far as Saturday night's game went I know some of the younger guys struggled with the intensity and pace of the game for 4 quarters. Does that mean they are not ready or not fit? Well, if the coach say's they are ready and what the club requires for now or in the future (always a balancing act) is his call - part of what he is paid to do. Are they not fit? Of course they are. However, it takes 2 or 3 pre-seasons to develop aerobic and anaerobic capacity as well as strength to play at the highest level. This means it will just take game experience + plus natural body development + increased conditioning to get ready. This will take time and there is no quick fix.

If you look at the way Crozier plays, his contest and football smarts are great. He will be a great player. He won't string together 4 quarters in 2012 and thats not a knock on him, it's just where he is with his development. Neale's aerobic capacity is enormous - I don't have figures but they would be very high for a first year player. However, going at the capacity he does and sustaining it for 4 quarters is a massive challenge. Especially when you have been trying to run with a very quick side such as Essendon early in the game like he had to do on Saturday night. Does this mean he can't compete at this level? Of course it doesn't, it's just where he is at with his development.

I think it is dangerous to read too much into young players, even players who have been there a couple of years such as Pitt at this level. We do not know what instructions they are given and what roles they need to play from the outside so evaluating their games is difficult; sure, desire for the contest and willingness to work are non negotiables so should happen from game 1. You can probably pick up more from their WAFL games in regards to their development.

Again, I am not disputing what opinions are of Jayden or if he will make the team this week as I have not seen a a lot of him live, but kids who walk in like Joel Selwood and impact at 18/19 years of age are just freaks and are not the norm.
 
prattsta said:
I kind of agree with the what you're saying IAJM, however, on a scale of Michael Walters to Stephen Hill, it's plainly obvious which side Pitt is sitting closer too.
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In that case, E Shed will be all over Pitt for the next year or two :D
 

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