List Mgmt. Player Ages Thread

[Eleven 38]

Our big men will not be walking out and they will not be traded unless the deal is absolutely out of this world! Players want to win flags, and wont be walking out for more money especially ones under the age of 25.

 

[hurlygurdy]

The thing is, i think we have the list right now to win a flag. We need one of Merret, Del or kommer to take a few steps forward and we are sorted. In a normal season we would have more injuries and the depth KPP's we have at the moment would be fully utilized and saving our bacon. Hanging on to what we have would be outstanding... The only possible exception being (for mine) the trade of Gumby for a similar quality small foward. If that doesn't happen i can totally live with it.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

It is part of the solution to the player list problem facing the Crows – if they remain in 12th place their first pick at the national draft on November 21 will be No. 43 unless they can trade.

General manager of football operations Phil Harper concedes Adelaide will need to offer someone who is very good to be able to trade, and a possibility is Rory Sloane, 23, as widely canvassed by Brownlow medallist Mark Ricciuto.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-draft-pick-20130710-2pqnb.html#ixzz2YgQoL520

 

[Old Campaigner]

GWS are going to get a ridiculously good deal for this draft pick, there's so many sides who are desperate for a quality tall forward and apparently this is not a good draft for KPPs so it's not like there's heaps of good options for those with later picks

 

[calyam]

Our big men will not be walking out and they will not be traded unless the deal is absolutely out of this world! Players want to win flags, and wont be walking out for more money especially ones under the age of 25.

I wouldn't generalise about the motivations of players. They can be motivated by a lot of things and I'm sure some would prefer to get paid rather than being part of a winning team.

 

[Eleven 38]

I wouldn't generalise about the motivations of players. They can be motivated by a lot of things and I'm sure some would prefer to get paid rather than being part of a winning team.

It's not generalising, it is my belief that we have built a strong enough culture that players won't walk out until the team has the ultimate success. Nobody walked out of the cats pies or hawks or over the last few years before they won a flag. And I am in firm belief that our players won't either.

 

[lamaros]

Time for a half-assed effort at who might leave here at the end of the year. The rules are you have to change 5 places on the senior list, yeah? If that's the case we are probably going to get trading for sure, as I don't think there are a clear group on their last chance.

There are probably some question marks over NOB, Browne, and Davis, given their inability to get fit and into the side this year, but I think that NOB and Browne are probably safe. Davis is the most likely to go, with the other two probably heading to a rookie list or a trade if they go anywhere at all.

On the retiring front NLM and Hille will probably call it a day. Hille probably has the ability to go on for another year as backup - they both might - but while we may have a need for Hille to do so we probably won't have as much space as we'd like, and it might be time to get another young prospect in if Bellchambers signs on again.

Maybe there is an outside chance that Davey will also retire. If they think the younger guys have come on enough and are going to trust with Merrett/Kommer/etc then he might not get another year. Fletcher is also in the 'maybe this year' category.

Colyer is probably the only one in the 'forced retirement' basket for the younger guys. Unless something special happens over the last few months of the year I feel his time may be up.

Then it comes to the trade discussions, of which we can have a lot. The standouts are Jetta and Gumby, two guys who seem clearly above VFL level but are hard to fit into the senior side. I think that Gumbleton is the one most likely to go, given the pressure for spots we already have in his position, and with Daniher in the wings. Jetta is a harder read, as he seem to have spent most of the season developing his midfield play, and he does give us something different that we need in the senior side if he does bring VFL form to senior level. If not he would clearly get a gig at another club, and as he is signed for the extra year we might get something small for him.

Hardingham might also go, though I doubt he has much value. Pears may also go, and he would have value, but I think it is most likely that he will stay with Essendon as a desired player - especially with Fletcher's retirement inevitable by the end of next year at least.

Others have talked of Hooker, Crameri, or Bellchambers being traded, or walking, but I just can't see it.

Outside of all this there is of course the chance we may cut a player contracted to 2014, but I'm not going to go into speculating about that.

 

[lamaros]

On the rookie list front I am confident that Steinberg will get another year, and that we will see the back of Cory and Hal who are in their final year. Dalgleish is the interesting one. He has something we could want and that can translate to AFL level, but if it's promote of delist the line will possibly be unforgiving.

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Minimum is three changes, so Hille, NLM and Davis would do it.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

I didn't say best, I said most important, as in structurally important. Him chopping off kicks and being 3rd man up is a fair part of why Carlisle is being talked up in AA circles. No matter how good you are, you always need help. Just look at the putrid backline Fletcher had at his disposal from about 04-2010,



Look at his numbers, they compare favourably to cox of last year, who was AA. I don't think he will this year, probably not the year after either, but he is absolute gold.



Gumby not even playing senior footy, the other two are all potential, but no production. I've done the numbers, Crameri's career so far compares favourably to any key forward in the competition. A Hurley or Carlisle are very important to our forward structure as they straighten us up something message, but yeah, stew's our best forward by a fair way.



Awful trade for them, Awful trade for us.

Hooker is hardly the most important defender as his role is largely created due to our defensive structures. When Bomber Thompson was at Geelong their intercept marks were through the roof and now that he's returned to Bomberland, so are ours. His game style influence has greatly benefited Hooker. However, in that defensive structure, another player could fill the role equally well. I would suggest the Carlisle, Hurley, Pears trio to be a superior KPD set up.

His numbers may be good, but he doesn't play every week, and he will never be our No.1 ruckman. Nor will he be our No.1 forward. So he is expendable on a team balance argument.

Gumby is only in and out of the side to manage his body. He is the ideal lead up and charge back CHF (N.Riewoldt style) to complement deep contested marking targets in Daniher and Boyd. Crameri's numbers compare because he is the only current key forward in a fairly decent side. Kent Kingsley would compare favourably in this side.

Hurley isn't a natural forward and wastes his great defensive talents there, and Carlisle is too valuable in defence (great sides are built on a solid back 6). Plus, Daniher, Boyd and Gumby allow both Hurley and Carlisle to settle in defence.

 

[lamaros]

Hooker is the intercept because he's a good contested mark and reads the play very well. If Pears played that role he wouldn't win nearly as many. And Fletcher would spoil half of them.

... oh, I got to Kingsley... good work, you got me.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

In an ideal world where all of your trades and draft picks work out.
To start with Boyd yes but is a forward, would need to trade Gumby to fit him in.
Next draft J.Billings, D.Garlett, D.Cameron, W.Rioli, A.Heppell, J.Neagle and J.Clothier. Seriously you can just wish up a draft list. There are 17 other clubs out there and who knows when who will be picked and having seen a bit of Neagle and Clothier there is no certainty that either will be any good and i will go as far to say i do not think Jed is AFL material.

Finally i do not see how what you have mentioned is any better than what we have .What happens next when Hille is retired and Paddy gets an injury or suspension ? Are we sending Joe to the wolves and making him ruck alone ?

Seriously if you think that is better then my first comment applies !
You would be giving away quality to get a worse list that is further away from a flag than we are now !

Obviously drafting is not a guarantee. But with our projected picks, those are the best players I expect to be available. Neagle I think is a chance to get drafted, Clothier 50/50. If we do take him, it's with our last or a rookie pick so not much is lost.

For the Hille retires and Ryder injured scenario: D.Cameron is a 203cm athletic ruck prospect. I would also draft a mature age back up ruckman so Daniher and Gumby aren't forced in massive ruck minutes. They are both far better suited to the forward line and I wouldn't be risking them in centre bounces too often.

If you looked at the two sides I posted you would have noticed that the reserve team players match the roles of the senior team players. This ensures depth and injury coverage. My recruiting strategy holds the club in good stead going forward.

I will concede that the club is a year further away from a flag under my proposals. But that is only due to adding some youth to the starting 22. In doing this we remain a quality premiership threat for much longer, ensuring a Geelong / Sydney like dynasty of success. There is no guarantee the current 22 are good enough to beat the top sides and win a flag.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

QFT.
Rancid Trogs you are bad and wrong and should stop posting about trading

What would you be adding to the current list and how would your starting 22 look in round 1, 2014?

 

[Rancid Trogs]

Just My Opinion but Hooker may be our best trade option at this stage.

We pretty much all agree we dont want big Tommy going anywhere...

I personally would not class Crameri as a Tall Key Forward. yes he is our leading goal kicker blah blah blah
He was drafted as a mid/half back if i remember correctly..

Currently i see our best side from next year on looking something like this

B - Baguley...Hurley...Pears/fletch
CHB - Dempsey...Carlile...Hibberd
C - Goddard...Watson...Zaharakis
HF - Winderlich...Gumbleton/New Player...Crameri
F - Merret...Daniher...Davey/New Player
R - Belly...Stanton...Hocking
INT - Melksham...Myers...Ryder...And whoever else you want

Hurley got AA honors twice before being drafted by us as a FULL BACK...

Trading Hooker, Gumbleton, Davey, Jetta, Hardingham. Not all but Hooker with 1 or 2 of those would give you a shot at say the number 1 draft pick and Taylors Adams from GWS They want the big forward and they want a key defender. Hooker, Gumby and say Jetta as a sweetener. Gives them some more mature players and gives us to have a Franklin/Roughead sort of forward line in Daniher/Boyd maybe better only time will tell but i think well worth a go if possible. Then you could look at drafting the likes of Garlett if available or someone similar for the small forward role.

Not saying this i what they should do but it could well be worth having a look at something like this.
I believe that Hooker is only a decent player when not having to be accountable for the oppositions main forwards.. If he plays on Cloke or Hawkins or someone like that they normally tear him to pieces.. So i think Hurley and Carlile can Cover those types leaving pears to look after the third tall or play the roaming sort of roll like hooker does.

Some will call me crazy but hey shit happens right

This guy gets it!

 

[Eleven 38]

Who said GWS wants a big forward. They have Cameron, Patton, and probably will get Buddy. They won't want Gumby. And I don't think we will be after the number pick as it is pretty much sewn up as a key forward. Which is why GWS are also keen too offload it.

 

[Old Campaigner]

What would you be adding to the current list and how would your starting 22 look in round 1, 2014?

Probably very little to add unless a couple of key players walk, but until there is concrete proof of this happening I'll assume they wont.

OUT Hille, NLM, Davis, Dell'Olio, Hunter, Colyer (demoted to rookie list)
IN 1st pick - small forward, 2nd pick - midfielder, 3rd pick - ruckman, 4th pick - Dalgleish, 1st rookie Colyer, 2nd rookie - Steinberg, 3rd rookie - project ruckman (Sikora maybe), 4th rookie - project mid/def.
Hope that adds up.

Would not trade anyone not listed above this year unless forced too, as there are very few gaps in our side that need to be filled and the cost to our salary cap would be quite high given we have a lot of emerging talent who will want to be adequately compensated in the next few years. That's not to say I wouldn't be opposed to getting a 3rd/4th round pick for Dell or Colyer or something. We will get a very good player who will have a lot of potential regardless of whether we have #1 or #16. No need to trade away established players for a pick we don't really need; and there will be a lot of competition for #1 with Carlton, Adelaide, Bulldogs and Brisbane all in desperate need of, and willing to make big trades to get a player like Boyd so we would be forced to trade away some serious quality to match them.

Would not pursue free agents too hard this year because next years batch is bigger and has more promising players available at this stage. I'd wait for a free agent to approach us first because we can't afford to pay overs to fill a hole in the list that doesn't really exist.

I predict our best 22 will be largely unchanged except for maybe Daniher squeezing Hurley out of the forward line or maybe van Unen/Steinberg pushing Baguley out. But at this stage that is purely speculating on how good each players preseason/fitness is come round 1 2014.

 

[daffo]

DON'T LEAVE BELLY!!!!!

 

[eth-dog]

I can honestly see Jetta going back to WA

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Freo seem to have a surfeit of that sort of player kicking around in the twos. Would he get a gig at West Coast?

 

[eth-dog]

With Hams and Nicoski likely to go it's a possibility

 

[Yoda_]

This guy gets it!

You really underestimate our list me thinks

 

[Zach Package]

You really underestimate our list me thinks

He's also overestimating Boyd, more specifically his ability to play immediately.

How many key forward have walked into really good teams from day one and delivered the output we're gonna need. He'd need a year to marinate in the two's imo

 

[Benno30]

Boyd probably would need a year maybe 2 in the magoos but seriously i dont think hooker is as important as people believe. After the year he has had he holds more currency than say pears for example....

Everybody you have to remember it was only last season that we were mostly against hooker ever playing another game in the red and black...

This was because he can not mind a player. He is ok running around lose or on a lesser like down back but he can not match it with the big guys. Shit even jason cloke used to look like an AA until the tried making him man up.. Then he was smashed every week and it was goodbye buddy.

 

[Old Campaigner]

He's done pretty well on the second forward when Carlisle took the first key forward, he's hardly been beaten. He's not the kind of player I would call 'important' but he is a valuable member of the team and clearly in our best 22. Would not trade him unless he wanted out.

 

[lamaros]

By 'we' you mean 'me and the other idiots', yeah?

I've always rated Hooker.