List Mgmt. Player Ages Thread

[carnthedons]

Hooker and TBC may not get the job done - in that case we keep them and continue forward with our draft picks as you suggest. And that is fine. But while there is a chance to get Boyd, you've got to look at it.

Hille was ok in the couple of games he played. No world beater, but serviceable. Would only need to play when Ryder was out of the side and if the backup mature aged ruck was unavailable. He'd largely be insurance against massive KPP injury. A role he can no doubt still fulfill.

So let's trade two established AFL quality players for somebody who could be anywhere between Nick Riewoldt and Richard Lounder? And who will not be able to provide as much influence on a game as either of the two traded players for at least 3 years.

Yeah, nah.

 

[lamaros]

Stop chain posting RT, it's very poor form.

Also I'm with Ant. Why trade players for the sake of it now we have the list where we want it? IF players get great offers and want to go then we try and get the best deal. If they're better than what we see in the draft and we want them then hold on. We have a young list and don't need to do much more than keep it rolling.

 

[BrunoV]

I like quite a bit of what you say, and instead of writing something tacky like 'good point', I acknowledge them with a like. You tend to make quite a bit of sense, we just disagree on some points.

You can't have a discussion with one opinion. While we differ on some things, I tend to respect what you say because you often make good points.

Fair enough. I'm in siege mode and a bit cagey at the moment. Apologies.

 

[BrunoV]

Keep as many as possible which sounds simple and most likely will not happen.
It is a given that Fletcher has probably 2014 season max in him, maybe 2015 in a reduced role with limited games.
There is a lot of love for Pears, i have not been a big fan but will admit i really liked his last game but i still think that Hooker, Carlisle and Hurley are better defenders.
I like Gumby over Crameri long term and if Hurley, Carlisle and Hooker are holding up the defense then i like the forwards to be Joe, Gumby and one of Ryder or Bellchambers.
For mine the two that get squeezed out are Crameri and Pears and that is not a blight on their form but more of how i rank them in the order.
Have been saying for 2 seasons i thought Hooker was better than Pears and i doubt i would change my mind now. I am on record here as saying the offers to trade Hooker to the GC and then to WC where bloody stupid and i stand by that. The bloke is an underrated gem.

I take it that the preference for Gumby over Crameri is based on how the respective players contribute to the forward structure. Is it realistic that Crameri could be used as a half forward playing stints in the midfield so that he could play alongside Daniher, Gumby and Ryder/T-Bell?

What about Pears as a small defender? How do you think he shapes up against Baguley, Hardingham and Van Unen? I'd like another month of footy before changing my mind but, based on his sideways first/short kicking form, I've probably overrated him as a rebounding defender.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

Fair enough. I'm in siege mode and a bit cagey at the moment. Apologies.

No dramas. All good

I take it that the preference for Gumby over Crameri is based on how the respective players contribute to the forward structure. Is it realistic that Crameri could be used as a half forward playing stints in the midfield so that he could play alongside Daniher, Gumby and Ryder/T-Bell?

What about Pears as a small defender? How do you think he shapes up against Baguley, Hardingham and Van Unen? I'd like another month of footy before changing my mind but, based on his sideways first/short kicking form, I've probably overrated him as a rebounding defender.

I think Gumby is your N.Riewoldt type CHF. Massive aerobic tank allowing him to take marks on the wing and then charge back towards goal from there. With Daniher and Ryder/Bellchambers as the deeper targets, I think that is our best structure. It does mean that we need three mosquitoes at their feet for crumbing and defensive pressure (Winders, Davey, Jetta, Kommer, Merrett and hopefully next year D.Garlett). Which unfortunately for Crameri, squeezes him out. Perhaps a trade to the dogs for an upgrade of 1st rnd pick to ensure we pick up J.Billings? Or another quality midfielder like Aish or utlity like Scharenberg?

I think the great benefit to T.Pears is that he can play tall and small. This versatility makes him my choice for 3rd tall defender behind Hurley and Carlisle.

And those of you questioning Boyd's worth ... it will be interesting to see how he develops. I just think that "Gumby leading out to centre wing and burning off his defender with sustained aerobic running to mark uncontested. Turns to kick long to a high leaping contested marking Daniher 60m from goal who swings onto his laser like left foot and chisels a flat 40m pass to the leading Boyd" sounds pretty enticing.

 

[Old Campaigner]

And those of you questioning Boyd's worth ... it will be interesting to see how he develops. I just think that "Gumby leading out to centre wing and burning off his defender with sustained aerobic running to mark uncontested. Turns to kick long to a high leaping contested marking Daniher 60m from goal who swings onto his laser like left foot and chisels a flat 40m pass to the leading Boyd" sounds pretty enticing.

Sounds like a recipe for a tall, unbalanced forward line to me.

 

[Old Campaigner]

People seriously considering trading several established players for a player who may or may not be any good/injury prone/criminal/whatever to fill a gap in the list that does not exist?

Like ant said, if we go out of our way to get anything it would be an established, classy midfielder. Not a new, untried KPP in a side that is already littered with them.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

Sounds like a recipe for a tall, unbalanced forward line to me.

Tall yes, but not less balanced that with Crameri in to replace Boyd. Crameri, despite his speed and shorter stature, has offered very little defensive pressure or crumbing ability this season. He may be carrying an injury, but he's not big enough to be doing as little as he is once the ball hits the deck. He just doesn't seem to have any agility, which effective makes him a shorter, less effective T.Boyd.

With Daniher/Ryder and Boyd deep, and Gumby leading up the ground, I think it works. Particularly if you have three fast crumbing forwards who apply defensive pressure (like Cyril, Bruest and Puopolo provide at Hawthorn).

 

[Eleven 38]

People seriously considering trading several established players for a player who may or may not be any good/injury prone/criminal/whatever to fill a gap in the list that does not exist?

Like ant said, if we go out of our way to get anything it would be an established, classy midfielder. Not a new, untried KPP in a side that is already littered with them.

Agreed any trade that we get involved in that also has pick 1 involved, pick 1 wont be coming to us, it will be on traded for a mid.

 

[JR95]

Frankly all this talk about trading players like Bellchambers or Crameri is quite frankly nauseating and has gotten very old very quickly.

Neither of them will be going anywhere and I'm suprised so many people would be prepared to trade them for unproven draft prospects.

The only thing I agree with on here is to draft Dayle Garlett.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

Our talls:

Forwards:
1. J.Daniher - tick
2. S.Gumbleton - tick, provided played the N.Riewoldt lead up CHF role
3. S.Crameri - big question marks to hold down FF

Ruck/Forwards:
1. P.Ryder - tick
2. T.Bellchambers - tick, but never going to ursurp Ryder as No.1 so will get limited ruck time at ESS. Not a dominant key forward (the P.A game is not an accurate reflection of his KPF capability).
3. D.Hille - old and passed his best, but a useful backup big bodies experienced ruckman for one more year.

Defenders:
1. J.Carlisle - tick tick
2. M.Hurley - tick tick
3. T.Pears - tick
4. D.Fletcher - question marks at his age. He has earned the right to choose his retirement time, but not sure if he's best 22 anymore. Has appeared rushed against the better sides.
5. C.Hooker - tick (due to public consensus rather than my opinion. I still question his ability to play on a KPF, and definitely cannot hold a small leading forward. Intercept marking role can be filled by another)

The gap is at FF. Bellchambers and Hooker are too good to be playing reserves or in reduced roles. Their currency makes them valuable to us. This means we can attempt to fill FF with Boyd, or as others suggest, trade for a quality mid.

I'm mindful of staggering the list age by utilising the draft each year to inject as much high quality as possible. You don't want a list of 24-27 year olds. They all retire within years of each other and gut the club. By continuing to add quality, you stagger the loss of quality through retirement.

Also, Boyd ensures you don't need to draft a key forward for years (Boyd, Daniher both being young), so you can focus of other areas (like replacements for Jobe, BJ and Stanton)

 

[Old Campaigner]

Agreed any trade that we get involved in that also has pick 1 involved, pick 1 wont be coming to us, it will be on traded for a mid.

Or we'd use it to pick up Aish or Garlett or something. The only way we'd get Boyd is if Gumby, Crameri and Hooker all left. If TBC left we'd probably trade it for a ruckman.

 

[Rancid Trogs]

The only thing I agree with on here is to draft Dayle Garlett.

He's a must!

 

[Old Campaigner]

Agreed any trade that we get involved in that also has pick 1 involved, pick 1 wont be coming to us, it will be on traded for a mid.

Or we'd use it to pick up Aish or Garlett or something. The only way we'd get Boyd is if Gumby, Crameri and Hooker all left. If TBC left we'd probably trade it for a ruckman.

 

[Keystone agony]

What could we offer for Jeffy Garlett?

Pears or Gumbleton are the only ones i can see and probably not enough. Otherwise a draft pick probably around 35 (so 2nd round)

 

[Old Campaigner]

Our talls:

Forwards:
1. J.Daniher - tick
2. S.Gumbleton - tick, provided played the N.Riewoldt lead up CHF role
3. S.Crameri - big question marks to hold down FF

Ruck/Forwards:
1. P.Ryder - tick
2. T.Bellchambers - tick, but never going to ursurp Ryder as No.1 so will get limited ruck time at ESS. Not a dominant key forward (the P.A game is not an accurate reflection of his KPF capability).
3. D.Hille - old and passed his best, but a useful backup big bodies experienced ruckman for one more year.

Defenders:
1. J.Carlisle - tick tick
2. M.Hurley - tick tick
3. T.Pears - tick
4. D.Fletcher - question marks at his age. He has earned the right to choose his retirement time, but not sure if he's best 22 anymore. Has appeared rushed against the better sides.
5. C.Hooker - tick (due to public consensus rather than my opinion. I still question his ability to play on a KPF, and definitely cannot hold a small leading forward. Intercept marking role can be filled by another)

The gap is at FF. Bellchambers and Hooker are too good to be playing reserves or in reduced roles. Their currency makes them valuable to us. This means we can attempt to fill FF with Boyd, or as others suggest, trade for a quality mid.

I'm mindful of staggering the list age by utilising the draft each year to inject as much high quality as possible. You don't want a list of 24-27 year olds. They all retire within years of each other and gut the club. By continuing to add quality, you stagger the loss of quality through retirement.

Also, Boyd ensures you don't need to draft a key forward for years (Boyd, Daniher both being young), so you can focus of other areas (like replacements for Jobe, BJ and Stanton)

Our leading goal kicker has 'big question marks'?

How does a forward line that each week features two of Hurley, Crameri, Gumby, JD or Carlisle either missing games or playing in defense have a 'gap'?

Why bring a KPF into the side one year after Daniher when you have said yourself that we aught to stagger the recruitment of players?

A guy who has played a handful of games this year has a tick, but one of the best defenders in the league gets a tick from you only because of the fact that everyone else seems to be able to see what you cannot?

Fletcher is unlikely to play every game next year which means we need a replacement who can hold down that spot, someone like Pears or Hooker.

Hille was very reluctant to play this year, he only did so if the club let him go to Europe. No chance he'll be back next year. Bellchambers needs to stay.

If we did what you are suggesting we'd have one AFL standard ruckman, one past it ruckman, a newbie from the draft, and Daniher who isn't up to the rigors of playing every game up forward let alone doing a decent chunk of the ruck work should Ryder cop an injury. We'd have a defence that relies on Fletcher being a) not retired, b) fit enough to play every game. And in return we'd get a KPF who'd not play many games for a couple of years.

We are approaching our chance to win a flag, the worst thing we could be doing right now is white ant-ing our depth that has been the envy of most sides this year in exchange for a player who will take years to develop. If TBC goes, we MUST replace him with a guy capable of being the number 1 ruckman in 2014, or we are vulnerable to Ryder going down. Hooker is more replaceable but on his own won't bring pick 1 and it causes more harm than good to add a required player like TBC to the trade in order to sweeten the deal.

People need to stop masturbating over Boyd, a few articles in the papers about him and suddenly he's the second coming of christ. We don't need him and we'd have to pay massive overs to get him. It's not hard to get your head around.

 

[Eleven 38]

Its rediculous that Boyd has been mentioned in this forum to be honest. We dont need any KPF's and there is a few other clubs that do, so its stupid to think that we would be able to put the best offer to GWS anyway, let alone think we would try and draft him.

 

[lenny2013]

Like ant said, if we go out of our way to get anything it would be an established, classy midfielder. Not a new, untried KPP in a side that is already littered with them.

Couldn't agree more.
-----------------------------
Jobe Watson 28
Brendon Goddard 28
Brent Stanton 27
------------------------------
Heath Hocking 26
David Zaharakis 23
Dyson Heppell 21

Need a proven classy midfielder in the mid to early twenties to ensure a smooth succession when the top group call it a day.

I had high hopes of Myers (24) going to next level and been a bit disappointed. maybe Jobes injury might provide him the opportunity needed to shine.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Its rediculous that Boyd has been mentioned in this forum to be honest. We dont need any KPF's and there is a few other clubs that do, so its stupid to think that we would be able to put the best offer to GWS anyway, let alone think we would try and draft him.

This what happens when the media run with a story. Suddenly every gormless halfwit is an expert. Look at the HT board for another example.

The silly thing is I haven't heard anyone say he is anything other than the best KPP prospect in this years draft. It's not like he's a once in a generation player or something. Not sure anyone has even compared him to Buddy.

Not sure why GWS would trade their pick anyway. Skip Boyd and grab the best of whatever they are lacking. Melbourne will pass on Boyd too so the Doggies will get him.

 

[JR95]

This what happens when the media run with a story. Suddenly every gormless halfwit is an expert. Look at the HT board for another example.

The silly thing is I haven't heard anyone say he is anything other than the best KPP prospect in this years draft. It's not like he's a once in a generation player or something. Not sure anyone has even compared him to Buddy.

Not sure why GWS would trade their pick anyway. Skip Boyd and grab the best of whatever they are lacking. Melbourne will pass on Boyd too so the Doggies will get him.

Pretty sure Melbourne would take him in a heartbeat to play along Hogan and Clarke and to eventually replace Dawes.

 

[Zach Package]

Couldn't agree more.
-----------------------------
Jobe Watson 28
Brendon Goddard 28
Brent Stanton 27
------------------------------
Heath Hocking 26
David Zaharakis 23
Dyson Heppell 21

Need a proven classy midfielder in the mid to early twenties to ensure a smooth succession when the top group call it a day.

I had high hopes of Myers (24) going to next level and been a bit disappointed. maybe Jobes injury might provide him the opportunity needed to shine.

Assuming we retain all our draft picks, our first selection will be a midfielder, and will probably be a very handy player.

But I agree, KP stocks are great, finding another Heppell needs to be the go in the next couple of drafts

 

[Yoda_]

Get Dayle instead. Offers much more in that he can rotate through the middle, has better set up kicks (my like Cyril) and can win contested ball. Also has been kicking 3 goals a game in the WAFL, so can hit the scoreboard.

Look I agree, but the fact is one is not even in the AFL the other, All Australian potential in the position we are scouting for. Dayle has all the potential in the world and in an ideal world would come in and play some good football from day 1, but truth is less than 10% of draftees will NOT make it let alone performing to a sustainable level for a top 4 finals aspirant such as ourselves.

 

[Eleven 38]

How is Garlett going this year anyway? he was touted as top 10 last year so if his form is just as good this year surely he would be touted as top 10 again?

 

[Old Campaigner]

How is Garlett going this year anyway? he was touted as top 10 last year so if his form is just as good this year surely he would be touted as top 10 again?

His forms been really good, kicking a lot of goals. Apparently he's become a bit of a leader for the young indigenous players at his club as well.

I reckon we did the right thing by not drafting him when we had the chance, but it seems the shock of going from potential top 10 pick to being rejected by everyone has bought home to him how important the right attitude is in footy. I'd say if someone had drafted him last year he'd have been in some serious trouble by now.

 

[Eleven 38]

more trouble than our club as a whole ?

I can totally understand that may just have saved his career before it started. However what i was sort of getting at was will he be touted top 10 again? if so we may be struggling to get him anyway.