Player Review vs Saints

[Snoop Dog]

Got to say that in that 2nd qtr we near lost the game and it was bc we were as good at hitting points as the Aussies are of nailing Bronze medals. Sure they were playing for their finals tilt but we were also playing for 2nd spot with all the results having gone our way so it was poor to give it up in the 3rd.

Anyway

# 1 - Was good I thought for most of the early part of the game but like many he drfited out and wasnt much of an influence late. Seems to run out of petrol by end of the third.

# 5 - They were trying to tag him with Gilbert obviously but he stood up to it pretty well and whilst not huge influence i thought he played his part and there were some fine efforts.

# 6 - Not much from Goldy really was there and hope his leg is ok. Another to miss what was a getable shot in the 2nd.

# 8 - Thought he was good actually. Beat his man for most of the night and got under his skin as well. Though H as going to lose it a few times but Milne must have nightmares about him. Great effort in the last few seconds. Personally thought free was there as Milne went up without looking at ball.

# 10 - heap of it but really didnt influence the game at all and some handball happy occassions as well which got us into trouble. Wonder if our training load is up bc he and a few others look tired.

# 11 - Was ok and got a bit it. Was good good in close and tried as always but again he didnt really influence the game at all. Took a nice grab in the last but then butchered the ball to almost cost us the game.

# 13 - He is one of my favs and i know he got a bit of it but i just didnt think he was a huge influence on the game. Seemed to have Ray for a bit of it and i thought Ray probably had the better. Lovely goal though.

# 16 - Brown was ok to be fair. Couple of efforts could have been better in the 3rd but wasnt the worst.

# 17 - Beams was great I thought. Was tagged and beat him senseless and hurt the scoreboard.

# 18 - He was really good wasnt he - tired late but he aint a young man but his first 3 qtrs were simply awesome and as good as i can remember of him in our colors.

# 20 - Was going really well but just wasnt seen much in the 3rd at all and nor was he a huge influence in the last.

# 21 - Good early but faded i thought. COuld have taken fwd 50 marks in last 2 qtrs but fluffed both and that may have made a difference.

# 22 - For a bloke who had a lot to say thru the week he didnt back it up terribly well. Got a fair bit of it but some silly mistakes and not really a game breaking influence. That handball in the last was an example

# 25 - Quiet once on.

# 28 - Ok but another who missed some chances he should have nailed

# 31 - Was good tonight just a bloody shame he didnt nail those two getable goals.

# 32 - He aint going great is he. Sure they double team him but there was an effort in the last where one was pushing back in him and he should have been knees up and taking a mark but he could get off the ground.

# 34 - Toovey had Saad and Saad I thought had better except for Saad's few crucial touches.

# 35 - Had a real go but his ball handling was not assured and he mucked up some chances. Shame bc we need his sort in the side but its time to drop back maybe. Brain explosion at game end wouldnt have helped the cause either.

# 36 - INfluential early but wasnt sure he was switched on at start of 3rd when he came out smiling and laughing. I know he is relaxed but didnt send a great msg to me. Better in the last and was one of our best but unsure why the coach had him fwd in the 3rd. Something was going on there. Think coach and players may have thought they were home.

# 39 - Superb. Couple of errors early but was v good and probably one fo the best for us i thought in the end. How many spoils did he have?

# 40 - started ok but faded. Beaut kick though.

Votes

5 - Beams
4 - Jolly
3 - Shaw
2 - Reid
1 - Swan

 

[Mateyman]

Got to say that in that 2nd qtr we near lost the game and it was bc we were as good at hitting points as the Aussies are of nailing silver medals. Sure they were playing for their finals tilt but we were also playing for 2nd spot with all the results having gone our way so it was poor to give it up in the 3rd.

Fixed it for you

 

[Knightmare]

Snoop has the player reviews covered and has done an excellent job as always so I felt rather than doing my own player reviews it might be best to instead go with some team notes for this week.

The only individual performance where individual acknowledgement is necessary is for Darren Jolly. He clearly won the ruck battle for the day and in the first half our inside dominance and clearance dominance started with him directing his taps to advantage. I loved seeing Jolls get forward in the first half for those strong grabs - first time we've seen it this year and his marking presence up forward was big for us. In the 2nd half he didn't dominate the ruck battle as he did in the first half, but took some important marks down back and was clear B.O.G.

The only area I felt we did get on top was through the midfield - first half it was no contest and as mentioned before it started with Jolly's good work but at the same time there were other areas of our game that just didn't stack up.

In the third quarter St Kilda really got back into the game by opening it up and we really struggle as a team when the game becomes ball movement heavy because our ball movement when stacked up against other top 8 sides is well below average and often sloppy so it didn't surprise me that St Kilda could stack on those goals in a hurry early in the 3rd as the game opened back up. Collingwood with what we have play best in closed games where the game is heavily stoppage based where we can use our midfield superiority - which we have over every team in the league and should be able to use it to greater advantage. In open games we just don't have the reliable ball movers who can move the ball as quickly or with the same ease and fluidity as the better opposition sides do. Additionally we are a poor team when it comes to running back defensively and as a result clubs who can move the ball quickly (almost all top 8 sides can) rebound the ball from the back flank and go end to end really easily against us which in the past been an issue so it is something we really need to stop.
- For me it's a game style thing but it needs to be adjusted significantly to suit our playing list if we are to compete with the other top end teams and in many respects the gamestyle we played under Malthouse was allot more suited to the personnel we have at present which in no way is a criticsm on coach Buckley's ideas and I've really enjoyed Nathan's coaching this season and liked a number of his individual player moves but it's just a case of we are much better suited to playing wide ball where clubs can't rebound the ball so easily rather than looking use the ball best because relative to the other top sides our skills are well below the standard and with what we have it's just not a gamestyle we can execute successfully against the stronger sides. It's just been made really obvious to me with how Hawthorn, Carlton and even West Coast despite losing to us in a close one just move the ball that much better than we do and how easy it is for all these clubs to go end to end with no resistance.

Ball movement problems really showed up and we just don't move it that well by foot often missing targets or not choosing the right targets. Ball movement from the back half in particular was very poor tonight and mostly just not directed to anything just looking really rushed. St Kilda while a solid pressuring team shouldn't make a good team look that pressured. We really need to put time into looking at news ways to move it from the back half more effectively.
I liked at times how we looked to use Reid as an option more with his kicking from the back half and I think it is something we need to continue to utilise more and I liked the move of Fasolo down back (he will need more time if we want him to settle down back but he could be a solution) but plenty of work on the track from the whole backline group and even midfield group needs to go into this ball movement part of the game because it's just not where it needs to be and hasn't been close over the second half of the season.

As a team while our ladder position says otherwise we only feel like a top 6 team. All of: Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney, Adelaide and West Coast if you ignore todays result all look like stronger sides going on current form so a top 4 position is important and if we want to make any noise in the finals we really need to find another level because right now I don't have us as one of the final 4 teams in the finals.


Changes for next week:
In: Chris Tarrant, Alan Didak, Marty Clarke
Out: Nathan Brown, Tom Young, Paul Seedsman

 

[TradeDraft]

# 22 - For a bloke who had a lot to say thru the week he didnt back it up terribly well. Got a fair bit of it but some silly mistakes and not really a game breaking influence. That handball in the last was an example

Agree with this Snoop. Had the Ball a Bit but was Very Sloopy and in the last month he has not been in Great Form

 

[lenny20]

allot

Knightmare, I hope you don't think I'm having a go at you here, but I've noticed you use the above spelling a bit in your reviews. As I say, please don't think I'm having a go, because I think your analysis is spot on the money, and I'm usually 100% behind your opinions (this week being no exception). You're one of the more erudite posters going around on these boards, I just have a bit of an OCD thing for typos - the correct spelling is two words; 'a lot'.

Please keep reviewing, as I do enjoy somebody else sharing a similar viewpoint on the team as I have.

 

[noideaatall]

great reviews and team analysis. not sure on the return round the boundary a la MM theory. I thought there were a few times when the short passing and handballs came off that we started to look really dangerous and spread the saints thin. We didn't capitlise tho. Looks and is risky at the moment but maybe with a bit more form its a game plan that can give us the edge to win finals - i don't think automatic boundary line is.

Jolly's 1st half absolutely awesome. Doesn't look hampered by injury. And Reid did well simply to play out the game after that knock.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Don't think it is right to say Dawes was good. Let's leave it at Dawes was 'better', but certainly not good.

Still barely did much for us in a contested marking situation in the forward 50, got neutralised in one contest by Farren Ray despite having the front position, no one else to contend with, and the ball delivered perfectly. That mustn't happen to a key forward of a contending side. Also missed shots he should have taken. I don't care how many snaps around the corner he gets, I care about contested mark and set shot goals, which he is still not giving us.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Ball movement problems really showed up and we just don't move it that well by foot often missing targets or not choosing the right targets. Ball movement from the back half in particular was very poor tonight and mostly just not directed to anything just looking really rushed. St Kilda while a solid pressuring team shouldn't make a good team look that pressured. We really need to put time into looking at news ways to move it from the back half more effectively.

As a team while our ladder position says otherwise we only feel like a top 6 team. All of: Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney, Adelaide and West Coast if you ignore todays result all look like stronger sides going on current form so a top 4 position is important and if we want to make any noise in the finals we really need to find another level because right now I don't have us as one of the final 4 teams in the finals.


Changes for next week:
In: Chris Tarrant, Alan Didak, Marty Clarke
Out: Nathan Brown, Tom Young, Paul Seedsman

Mate completely agree with the ball movement comment. At times we seem to just handball from a mark or free kick and the receiver ends up in trouble. Not sure how many times it happened last night but quick ball movement is what our fwds want.

Re the second comment - my view is we look like premiers in qtrs like the 2nd but then fair dinkum we look like bloody bottom 4 in qtrs like the 3rd.

Re next week yeah I can see Dids and Tazz coming in but geez I don't want to see #9 coming. Has some big flaws for mine. Thought Seedsman and Young were ok but someone will have to make room for Didak and we will wait on Goldsack I guess.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare, I hope you don't think I'm having a go at you here, but I've noticed you use the above spelling a bit in your reviews. As I say, please don't think I'm having a go, because I think your analysis is spot on the money, and I'm usually 100% behind your opinions (this week being no exception). You're one of the more erudite posters going around on these boards, I just have a bit of an OCD thing for typos - the correct spelling is two words; 'a lot'.

Please keep reviewing, as I do enjoy somebody else sharing a similar viewpoint on the team as I have.

Not a problem. Happy for any regular typos to be pointed out. No spellchecker here so can only suggest it's one of many regular mistakes.

great reviews and team analysis. not sure on the return round the boundary a la MM theory. I thought there were a few times when the short passing and handballs came off that we started to look really dangerous and spread the saints thin. We didn't capitlise tho. Looks and is risky at the moment but maybe with a bit more form its a game plan that can give us the edge to win finals - i don't think automatic boundary line is.

Jolly's 1st half absolutely awesome. Doesn't look hampered by injury. And Reid did well simply to play out the game after that knock.

I agree with the idea that the over-handballing isn't such a bad thing with our midfield group. It's not something I touched upon in my earlier post but I'm glad you did. With our midfield group - Pendlebury, Beams and co are all excellent users by hand and if they can find a better option I think many of our better movements start with a nice find by hand. We don't by any means need to go to the Geelong extreme but I think the balance we have with the kick to handball ratio isn't an issue.

The boundary hugging idea while I'm not totally against using the corridor when the time is right and we have superior numbers using the boundary is more a mechanism to prevent the opposition going end to end on the turnover because right now all the better clubs are just doing it too easy and we are leaking far too many goals on the rebound. Defensively we need to do something to stop this and boundary hugging with our offensive running style is probably the easier way to change this without a complete overhaul.

Don't think it is right to say Dawes was good. Let's leave it at Dawes was 'better', but certainly not good.

Still barely did much for us in a contested marking situation in the forward 50, got neutralised in one contest by Farren Ray despite having the front position, no one else to contend with, and the ball delivered perfectly. That mustn't happen to a key forward of a contending side. Also missed shots he should have taken. I don't care how many snaps around the corner he gets, I care about contested mark and set shot goals, which he is still not giving us.

I had Dawes in my better 4-8 on the night and his recent form has not been terrible. At times Dawes actually looked threatening (didn't think I'd be saying this after his poor first half to the season) up forward and took some strong marks. Kicking on goal obviously still lacks confidence but with the growth he is showing in his marking game over the past month I was really pleased with his efforts and it was pleasing that he could capitalise on his size advange v Gwilt.

 

[Knightmare]

Mate completely agree with the ball movement comment. At times we seem to just handball from a mark or free kick and the receiver ends up in trouble. Not sure how many times it happened last night but quick ball movement is what our fwds want.

Re the second comment - my view is we look like premiers in qtrs like the 2nd but then fair dinkum we look like bloody bottom 4 in qtrs like the 3rd.

Re next week yeah I can see Dids and Tazz coming in but geez I don't want to see #9 coming. Has some big flaws for mine. Thought Seedsman and Young were ok but someone will have to make room for Didak and we will wait on Goldsack I guess.

The 2nd quarter was fantastic and when we turn it on we do feel near unstoppable with that midfield dominance. It was the one time in the match where everything just seemed to clock. It was just good football and you have to enjoy watching that.

Clarke I haven't been pleased with over the second half of the season and I agree that he can get exposed defensively but right now I have him as the least bad of the alternatives as the 22nd man selected. Mooney I'd consider but is out for another two weeks.
Then with N.Brown not performing this year - should be better next year but form this year hasn't been fantastic so the options with our injury list aren't ideal this year.
Maybe a Krakouer/Caff can show some over the final weeks at VFL level but you just can't expect them to break through with such limited preperation.
Josh Thomas is the other I'm really itching to see and against Sydney would love to see what he can do - would even be tempted to start him and have a Goldsack come in as a sub if he is right for next week to be that injection of energy just for next week.

 

[twaters]

Well this week we had Jolly, Thomas, Wellers, Sidey, and the Big O back. The first and last slotted in without dramas and were good. The middle three will be better for the blowing out of the cobwebs. Sidey's 'get and give' game has gone to pieces, and now 'the give' is as likely to go to them as to us. Time for a forward role?

Fasolo is like a beautiful roller-door; he just needs to build a garage first - as they used to say. Tank-in-waiting. Meanwhile, back forward.

Shaw is like our season; blowing hot and cold and getting in front of ourselves. Disposal efficiency is frankly a disgrace for such an accomplished player (and team). Settle down, forget mid, stay HBF to support Tooves who is struggling a bit. One good kick to us is worth more than 3 disposals that end up being given off to 'them'.

Cloke. Has immense integrity as a person. Whether going or staying, he will play his role now. Even if quiet, it usually takes two defenders' mindsets to keep him so. The third forward tall becomes more focal. Pity Goldy may be injured. Probably leaves Taz or Paine to step up.

 

[shizzle]

Last night and in the season so far I've noticed time and time again players handballing the ball forward(often a blind handball) to no one in particular and quite often causing a direct turnover by hand, is this a flawed coaching instruction when under pressure to just move the ball forward and hope like hell we can get to the next contest and cause a stoppage or regain possession? Of course alot of the time it ends up in an opponents hand and if along the boundary line they can easily switch it up to a free man in the centre and go inside 50.

 

[hellfire]

Good to see Jolly and particuarly Dawes return to some form. Thomas was much better also.

Overall, most of our key players are playing decent footy. The only reason we seem to be far from our best is our composure under pressure. Turnovers by bombing it long or handballing it forward when the pressure is on, and we turn the ball over and allow an easy switch and forward entry for the opposition. If we can just get some composure in these situations, possibly look in-board more than the long-kick down the line so that we open up the field and give ourselves options... we'll be okay.

In that second quarter last night... some of our handballing in tight to get out of congestion was incredible. It's heartening to know we still have that footy in us... I just hope we can show 4 quarter performances like that during the finals.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Not a problem. Happy for any regular typos to be pointed out. No spellchecker here so can only suggest it's one of many regular mistakes.



I agree with the idea that the over-handballing isn't such a bad thing with our midfield group. It's not something I touched upon in my earlier post but I'm glad you did. With our midfield group - Pendlebury, Beams and co are all excellent users by hand and if they can find a better option I think many of our better movements start with a nice find by hand. We don't by any means need to go to the Geelong extreme but I think the balance we have with the kick to handball ratio isn't an issue.

The boundary hugging idea while I'm not totally against using the corridor when the time is right and we have superior numbers using the boundary is more a mechanism to prevent the opposition going end to end on the turnover because right now all the better clubs are just doing it too easy and we are leaking far too many goals on the rebound. Defensively we need to do something to stop this and boundary hugging with our offensive running style is probably the easier way to change this without a complete overhaul.



I had Dawes in my better 4-8 on the night and his recent form has not been terrible. At times Dawes actually looked threatening (didn't think I'd be saying this after his poor first half to the season) up forward and took some strong marks. Kicking on goal obviously still lacks confidence but with the growth he is showing in his marking game over the past month I was really pleased with his efforts and it was pleasing that he could capitalise on his size advange v Gwilt.

I'd rather he WAS threatening than LOOKED threatening, and he still isn't for mine. Sure, he got some frees, but still didn't convert them anyway.

 

[sloth6]

Heath Shaw's performance I feel is being undervalued, he was a close second behind Jolly in terms of the impact they had. His ability to close and spoil was superb. His one on one contest with Kosi on the lead was pivotal.

One of the best games I've seen jolly play, only gave away one free kick in the ruck all night and Dawes was better. Pendles was quiet, his decision to play on from the kickout to jolly where it was four v one was costly and something you'd expect heater to do.

Loved Harry's game.

Dids needs to come in, Goldsack up forward has run its course and hopefully Krak can stay healthy, he has to play caus all he wants to do is kick goals and not chase ass and tackle like our other small forwards.

 

[Knightmare]

Heath Shaw's performance I feel is being undervalued, he was a close second behind Jolly in terms of the impact they had. His ability to close and spoil was superb. His one on one contest with Kosi on the lead was pivotal.

Very strongly agree with this. After Jolly, Shaw was that next best.
Defensively he did some great things. And as mentioned when Reid went off the ground Shaw's win v Koschitzke was big. Shaw had no right to compete with a guy of that size and yet held his own. Got plenty of spoils, tacked hard and just really put his head down and did everything right defensively and his stats don't show the impact he had.

 

[bucksisbest]

Shaw got better as the game progressed, but you'd hope so after his start, where he cost us 2 direct goals in the first quarter with his epic brain explosions.

 

[Kirby]

^ i think he was a bit stiff with that deliberate call in the first though.

 

[Stripes B and W]

Just a couple of general observations on the game, wondering what others think.
Re the ball movement, is it as simple kicking skills across the board? I think as a general rule we are a middling kicking team, but on Saturday night we were particularly poor. It is the same players that kick poorly, whether coming out of the back half, moving inside fifty or in fact kicking on goal. I have seen no great improvement across the season in this. I think this will lead to Seedsman being played ahead of one or two others, and Did coming in.

Its been pretty clear in many games this season that our better mids have generally played well in almost every game. In many of these games we have struggled to dominate sides and come away with a number of close wins, even in our losses our quality mids have plenty of the footy. I think it is too easy to blame Cloke, Dawes, Goldsack as reasons why we havent been more decisive in many games. While our small forwards have been much better at applying forward pressure, goals from them have not been flowing. Added, Sinclair and Elliot ( not a knock on Elliot, i think he is our 'find' of the season) are very poor at converting. Somehow we need to be getting the ball in the hands of the blokes that can kick it. Fas, Beams, Seedsman, Pendles ( for short kicks), Shaw ( when he eliminates the horrendous errors) etc.

Another thing i have noticed, many times is when we have quick forward movement, very rarely does a forward run atthe kicker. IE. Lead toward the ball. There is generally space when the ball goes forward quickly. Many times its Elliot alone that has provided this type of lead, i am not referring to the occassional long lead of Cloke that results in a mark on the wing. Although the few times i noticed Cloke lead into space the ball went over his head. Goes back to the earlier point of generally poor footskills.

Don't be too harsh on a narrow win v the Saints, maybe even a lucky victory, i think not much seperates them from the other better teams, perhaps Hawks excluded.

Finally a comment of Dawes, better game yes, like others have pointed out i want to see a few conventional big forward goals from him. He must start to convert his set shots!!

 

[PieNSauce]

^ i think he was a bit stiff with that deliberate call in the first though.

I'd say he was a bit more than just a bit stiff. That was a ridiculous call from the umpire when he was knocked off the kick which clearly went off the side of his boot as a result. The only brain explosion there was with a bloke by the name of Margetts and the later one was just as much a howler of a decision.

 

[Kirby]

I'd say he was a bit more than just a bit stiff. That was a ridiculous call from the umpire when he was knocked off the kick which clearly went off the side of his boot as a result. The only brain explosion there was with a bloke by the name of Margetts and the later one was just as much a howler of a decision.

The second one was even worse!