Please RTB go back to the future

[igon value]

And as others have pointed out our game plan is around creating stoppages, hence the ugly footy tag. We didn't get it for no reason.
Dogs for mine play a perfect blend of strong defence with brilliant attack. Their players seem to know each other so well and trust where they will be at stoppages, the percentage of little knocks and behind the head handballs they do that come off is incredible and they just torch you with run once they get moving. So many 50/50 contests yesterday that Sydney threatened to go forward and will a little smother or touch Dogs reversed it and sprinted forward again.

Thank god you pointed this out, as well as someone else in this thread.

While both Freo of 2013 and Dogs of 2016 were 'manic', the difference is that the Dogs are all about keeping the ball alive and in motion as opposed to our slower, sometime stagnant football.

IMO under Lyon we play a very gridiron style of football, with set piece after set piece, all about claiming territory until we are in a position to score.

 

[igon value]

It was Mr Peabody

The Bulldogs look to outnumber the opposition at the contest and work to get the ball out and moving forward by multiple handballs or knock ons. The guys on the outside pounce on the loose ball and get inside as well or provide link up options to move it forward. They actually avoid stoppages because they want to get the ball into the open. I heard Kieran Jack interviewed during the game making the point that the Swans were better when adding numbers around the contest today.

I don't have the stats to compare, but when we were at our peak, we were strong in the contest too but we seemed to force stoppages to perhaps try and capitalise on Sandi's dominance rather than force the ball out into the open. Quite a different style of play I think.

I think the Bulldogs have one of the lowest number of clearance totals per game but have the highest winning differential. Crazy to think that they avoid creating stoppages despite being so good at winning them.

With Fyfe and Sandilands we have a similar advantage in winning them and it seems our style of play is based around that advantage.

 

[Scham]

It was Mr Peabody
I think the Bulldogs have one of the lowest number of clearance totals per game but have the highest winning differential. Crazy to think that they avoid creating stoppages despite being so good at winning them.

With Fyfe and Sandilands we have a similar advantage in winning them and it seems our style of play is based around that advantage.

The trouble was that this was easily countered by the opposition. Tag Fyfe and a team approach of hammering him every time he got the ball or even looked like getting it.

Hopefully next year we'll be less predictable in the midfield and at stoppages.

 

[rodney hoo]

IMO under Lyon we play a very gridiron style of football, with set piece after set piece, all about claiming territory until we are in a position to score

I commented on this after watching a training session a few weeks before our preliminary final against the Hawks in 2015, that players were made to run laps if they picked an option different to what Ross expected them to do, ie go down the wing instead of switching play, Rioli new this scored two goals that put the game away for the Hawks. To win the big games footballers are still more valuable than foot soldiers.

 

[meima]

The trouble was that this was easily countered by the opposition. Tag Fyfe and a team approach of hammering him every time he got the ball or even looked like getting it.

Hopefully next year we'll be less predictable in the midfield and at stoppages.

That is the reason i prefer fyfe playing forward next season , can always bring him back to mid if needed. A forwad line of tab ,fyfe and cam mac might work . With mid of blakely,mundy and neale .

 

[ydraw]

I agree with you. Our game plan in 2013 -2015 was fine. We just lacked a few better players especially up forward.
I also think we need to work on a plan B for the times we do find ourselves a couple of goals down in a game.

We would have had a much better side in 2013 had we picked Lachie Neale over Matt de Boer for the gf.

But Lachie was the wrong age.

 

[Wally Walpamur]

Under this rebuild, does our gameplan change considering we're moving to Perth Stadium in 2018, where the ground will have similar dimensions to the MCG? Both the WA teams defensive structures haven't held up as well at the G compared to Subi.

 

[igon value]

We would have had a much better side in 2013 had we picked Lachie Neale over Matt de Boer for the gf.

But Lachie was the wrong age.

You might be onto something there. The average age of the Bulldogs premiership team was younger than any Lyon coached side (aside from the rested matches of 2013 + 2015)

 

[salim malik]

You might be onto something there. The average age of the Bulldogs premiership team was younger than any Lyon coached side (aside from the rested matches of 2013 + 2015)

Yeh but compare the Bulldogs to the Hawks and Geelong cup sides age wise.

 

[meima]

Yeh but compare the Bulldogs to the Hawks and Geelong cup sides age wise.

But hawks and geelong now in regenerate mode, not going said too much about 2016 freo .eveything freo do now look just one step behind. Need to do something no team done before that are fresh and new.

 

[salim malik]

But hawks and geelong now in regenerate mode, not going said too much about 2016 freo .eveything freo do now look just one step behind. Need to do something no team done before that are fresh and new.

And they aren't looking at youth. Mitchell, Omeara are established players. How is that fresh and new? They are giving up their early picks for mature players.

 

[meima]

And they aren't looking at youth. Mitchell, Omeara are established players. How is that fresh and new? They are giving up their early picks for mature players.

You are so outdated , bulldog is the new premier, hawthorn and geelong is only regenerate , they can only be fresh and new if they play a bit different to previous game plan.

 

[salim malik]

You are so outdated , bulldog is the new premier, hawthorn and geelong is only regenerate , they can only be fresh and new if they play a bit different to previous game plan.

Gameplan means zilch without the best players. Hawthorn is regenerating with experienced players. Nothing fresh and new in the AFL. Get the best players and go from there. Its the way its always been.

 

[meima]

Gameplan means zilch without the best players. Hawthorn is regenerating with experienced players. Nothing fresh and new in the AFL. Get the best players and go from there. Its the way its always been.

You cant get exactly hodge and mitchell type , only tweak your game plan to suit new player strengh coming in. Eg in other sport there is only one Micheal jordan, messi or Ronaldo.

 

[salim malik]

You cant get exactly hodge and mitchell type , only tweak your game plan to suit new player strengh coming in. Eg in other sport there is only one Micheal jordan, messi or Ronaldo.

Exactly ,without the best players game plans mean nothing. Clubs don't fork out huge dollars to attract mediocre players. Hell we moan and groan on here to get rid of certain players because they aren't good enough.

 

[igon value]

Yeh but compare the Bulldogs to the Hawks and Geelong cup sides age wise.

Hawks in 08 were as young as the Dogs are now, and like the Dogs upset a much more highly rated opponent. Sometimes the element of the unknown is a coach's best weapon. Ross has his whole career preferred the knowns, which is no big issue as most coaches do.

I read a few stats blogs, one of the best is Figuring Footy. Swans had three of the top 10 mids in the league - Dogs only one. A couple of diagrams to illustrate.

From the data it looks like it should be a one-sided contest, but wasn't!

Rankings/ratings of players is retrospective, the Dogs youth have high upside. Bontempelli for instance is rated in the top 10 has Fyfe-like qualities. Macrae, Hunter, Daniel are all relatively young compared to the Swans on ball brigade.

So on the question should Neale have started in 2013 instead of another player (like De Boer) I think the answer is yes.

 

[meima]

Hawks in 08 were as young as the Dogs are now, and like the Dogs upset a much more highly rated opponent. Sometimes the element of the unknown is a coach's best weapon. Ross has his whole career preferred the knowns, which is no big issue as most coaches do.

I read a few stats blogs, one of the best is Figuring Footy. Swans had three of the top 10 mids in the league - Dogs only one. A couple of diagrams to illustrate.

From the data it looks like it should be a one-sided contest, but wasn't!

Rankings/ratings of players is retrospective, the Dogs youth have high upside. Bontempelli for instance is rated in the top 10 has Fyfe-like qualities. Macrae, Hunter, Daniel are all relatively young compared to the Swans on ball brigade.

So on the question should Neale have started in 2013 instead of another player (like De Boer) I think the answer is yes.

Is good you mention haws 2008 and current bulldog as both play without sub rule.

 

[igon value]

Is good you mention haws 2008 and current bulldog as both play without sub rule.

Did sub rule lead to older teams dominating? That's an interesting theory. Regardless, Lyon has always erred on the side of playing experience - in only two games this year was Freo the younger side vs North and vs Hawks. This is despite winning only four games and going through a rebuild!

Not much of the 2016 best 22 has retired, so we can expect a similarly experienced team next year.

 

[BStaff17]

First they need to establish some belief and confidence in each other again by winning games early next year.

Our poor 1st round showing against the Bulldogs sapped all the confidence from the group and they didn't recover. As the losses and injuries continued to compound it just got worse.

A fresh start and starting back on zero with everyone else should help reinvigorate the group.

Back to the 2013-2015 model or gameplan we had it was good enough for basically every team except hawthorn. And even our 3 final losses in that period were more down to poor set shots not gameplan kick straight who knows we could have won a flag.

Though i believe Hawthorn did have a psychological edge over us. They were the 1 team we couldn't handle. Whenever we come up against it was like we just froze especially physically.

The fact they go after Fyfe physically and mentally whenever we play them didnt help the last 3 times fyfe has played them he has been either been injured in the 1st quarter or reported and ended up getting suspended.

 

[salim malik]

Is good you mention haws 2008 and current bulldog as both play without sub rule.

And the end of season bye this season. It fell into place for the Bulldogs. Would they have got past the Eagles without the bye? Luck is the intangible.
Its only my opinion but gameplans don't win games,players do.

 

[meima]

And the end of season bye this season. It fell into place for the Bulldogs. Would they have got past the Eagles without the bye? Luck is the intangible.
Its only my opinion but gameplans don't win games,players do.

You are right , bulldog use a lot of players outside their best 22 . I think sometime i overated you .

 

[Rob]

I commented on this after watching a training session a few weeks before our preliminary final against the Hawks in 2015, that players were made to run laps if they picked an option different to what Ross expected them to do, ie go down the wing instead of switching play, Rioli new this scored two goals that put the game away for the Hawks. To win the big games footballers are still more valuable than foot soldiers.

Rioli hardly predicted Sheridan would make a schoolboy error followed by Mzungu dropping what was a slightly more difficult mark but still one he would have expected to hold 19 times out of 20.

If Sheridan marked that ball there was a 4 on 1 on the other wing with little else in the way of our forward line. That's why you switch play in the first place.

 

[rodney hoo]

Rioli hardly predicted Sheridan would make a schoolboy error followed by Mzungu dropping what was a slightly more difficult mark but still one he would have expected to hold 19 times out of 20.

If Sheridan marked that ball there was a 4 on 1 on the other wing with little else in the way of our forward line. That's why you switch play in the first place.

Not when Rioli is sitting on your hammer, we were less than two goals down and right back in it with plenty time on the clock, sometimes you have to play the percentages, and in hindsight I'd say I got it right by what happened and the result.

 

[Rob]

Not when Rioli is sitting on your hammer, we were less than two goals down and right back in it with plenty time on the clock, sometimes you have to play the percentages, and in hindsight I'd say I got it right by what happened and the result.

Drawing players is the point though because it frees up other players. You see it in stoppages all the time - but you still have to have faith in your teammates to execute. If they **** it up then that's not really the fault of the game plan.

 

[rodney hoo]

Drawing players is the point though because it frees up other players. You see it in stoppages all the time - but you still have to have faith in your teammates to execute. If they **** it up then that's not really the fault of the game plan.

I agree with you but that's where footballers are better than foot soldiers as they instinctively normally get it right. If it's drummed into you got go there with Rioli on your hammer you got get it100% right or your gone, sometimes IMO got take percentages.