Society & Culture Political correctness

[Bluelegs]

1. That's fair enough, but I'm more or less referring to what happens when these kids are not at school. I mean how can one rule out the possibility that they will never "encounter" nuts in their life? IIRC didn't some woman crack it QANTAS because she was allergic to peanuts, and wouldn't remove them from the flight for her? Is she not gonna go to the supermarket because she could walk past a snickers bar?

The world has its fair share of idiots as long as the kid knows about their allergy and is old enough to understand the danger and gravity of the situation they'll be fine. People like the woman you just mentioned are just self-important twats that think the world revolves around them.

2. I agree, but I was referring to what constitutes bullying, which has become ridiculous.
To be honest, I've never been bullied nor have I bullied anyone else, but I'd argue that bullies target people who they can see they can actually intimidate and have an effect on, i.e. kids who get "upset" over everything. If a bully sees that their target is not affected, then they might be less inclined to pick on them. By the same token, I don't mean to blame the victim, because bullying is a poor act, but if you teach these kids how to "deal" with the situation it might help their cause and stand them in good stead in the long run.

3. I'm against corporal punishment in schools, even if actually "worked", not every teacher would administer it properly or fairly. My parents have a number of stories from Catholic school in the 50's and 60's, to return to that would be awful. Again to refer back to my previous comment, it was more just a teaching kids how to deal with adversity thing which is a much needed life skill that we are perhaps forgetting about

Not sure if it has changed since I was at school but we generally had a three step process if you felt you were being bullied. It went 1. Tell them to stop, 2. Walk away 3. Find a teacher. If it's real bullying the kid is likely not to stop after the first two steps in which case there isn't much a kid can do, and schools aren't going to encourage violence. I'm not really sure what you think kids should just deal with as opposed to what should be considered bullying. As far as I'm concerned bullying is consistent and continuous harassment.

 

[radiojake]

Example in the OP is not political correctness - As others have mentioned, it is more a result of the over litigious society we have now -

Political correctness, in it's real sense, is otherwise known as 'being polite' - You don't go around calling minorities imflammatory words because it is not a polite thing to do.

 

[Helicopter Punt]

I don't see that as political correctness. Political correctness is not doing something because you're afraid of offending someone.

Schools banning games, foods etc. is because they are afraid of a kid breaking their arm or having an anaphylactic attack, an overzealous parent blaming the school for neglecting their duty of care and the school ending up getting sued. It's about litigation and risk management, not social mores.


It's actually permitted in private schools in a number of states (not NSW, but I think most of the others).

The reason it's not used it because pretty much everybody in the medical and educational fraternities agree that it doesn't work. Or at least, other punishments work better.

Sounded like a good idea at the time. Who would have thought experts could be wrong?

 

[Helicopter Punt]

To be fair, kids shouldn't be singing songs about the slave trade in the first place.

Aboriginals and Ingigenous Australians have the same meaning and if anything Indigenous Australians is more specific, "Aboriginal" just means indigenous people (which could be from any country).

Quite. The Swedish aborigines down the road are currently paying back Centrelink overpayments due to the confusion between these terms.

BTW BL what are your thoughts on fairy tales?

 

[HappyChappy35]

Political correctness, in it's real sense, is otherwise known as 'being polite' - You don't go around calling minorities imflammatory words because it is not a polite thing to do.

I've already stated that using hateful language towards others is unacceptable, however suggesting that terms such as 'blackboard', 'Merry Christmas', and so forth are offensive is undoubtedly over the top.

Also, why is it only unacceptable to use inflammatory words towards minorities (as you imply here)? Shouldn't insulting language be unacceptable towards any particular group of people?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

This HTFU teaching you talk about used to work in schools. If kids are babied and not taught to handle adversity, they will struggle big time in adult life when they realise not everything is unicorns and rainbows.

But surely you must know by now that there are no winners and losers in life.

If someone is not particularly good at something, that's ok, we'll modify it so that they'll feel better about themselves.

What a wank.

 

[Gasometer]

PC=Lawyers

Fave scene as well from S.N-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SWF9i3Vzpac/TUHaAmbZG-I/AAAAAAAABFg/5oui2kAAJKA/s1600/Lawyer+Up+arseh*le.gif

and I gotta add the rest...

 

[Dont be a lemon]

Read the thread n00b

 

[J_Moore]

Read the thread n00b

Haha, damn, I thought I did.

 

[J_Moore]

Five stars. Would post again.

 

[Scotland]

Why are people so hung up on defining political correctness and not wanting to apply it to the example in the OP? 'Oh it's not PC, it's an example of a litigious society'. Right, it's still ****ed.

Regardless of what you call it the same nimrods behind 'chairperson' and the like are behind these initiatives that make people roll their eyes and start threads like this.



Billy Connolly's across it.

 

[HappyChappy35]

Why are people so hung up on defining political correctness and not wanting to apply it to the example in the OP? 'Oh it's not PC, it's an example of a litigious society'. Right, it's still screwed.

Not that, I just think people have misunderstood what I was trying to get across. Being over litigious and soft does tie in with excessive political correctness in that others are unnecessarily deprived of something for the sake of a minority who may be slightly offended.

Yes, abusing and insulting others on the basis of their ethnicity, age, gender, disability, sexuality etc. is clearly unacceptable and there is a general consensus within the community that it is so.

However, where do you draw the line when it comes to acceptable/unacceptable slurs? What I'm trying to discuss is things such as 'blackboard', 'baa baa black sheep', Christmas carols being banned in schools, and kids hugging other kids being considered offensive, which is quite rightfully ridiculous, excessive, and over the top. I'm attempting to point out why things similar to this aren't offensive, and not slurs such as '****ing Muslim/Asian/wog etc.' (which are definitely taboo).

Either that or some people are simply looking for opportunities to associate anyone who opposes excessive political correctness with being bogan/less sophisiticated than themselves (which is not only plain ridiculous, but dismissive and somewhat ignorant).

 

[Meow]

But surely you must know by now that there are no winners and losers in life.

If someone is not particularly good at something, that's ok, we'll modify it so that they'll feel better about themselves.

What a wank.

People who are not aware there are winners/losers in life will be less able to learn from mistakes than others who are aware of this. Learning from mistakes is probably the most important thing in striving for success, accepting them will not get you far and will only make the misery that comes from failure worse. Modifying things so people/kids feel better about themselves is a band-aid fix that will not actually help them in the long run.

Harsh but true. Accepting the fact there are always winners/losers in life will get you much further than things being modified to make you feel better about yourself will.

This is where babying and mollycoddling does not help kids- it will simply make them struggle to cope with life's challenges if they are soft and unable to deal with some tough luck here and there.

 

[radiojake]

Also, why is it only unacceptable to use inflammatory words towards minorities (as you imply here)? Shouldn't insulting language be unacceptable towards any particular group of people?

(assuming you are a white male, apologies if you are not) - Have you ever been offended being called a 'skip' or a 'cracker' - Oh no, please don't remind me about the fact that I have had it sweet for the past couple of centuries while we have oppressed darkies on every continent of the globe....

There is centuries worth of historical background to language - And sure, it's not PC, in my definition of the word of politeness, for abusive or vitirolic language to be directed towards anyone, including white males; but to suggest that racial abuse against white male majorities has the same impact as calling someone with dark skin a '******' is ridiculous -


The reason why I feel the need to define the diffence between political correctness and an over litigious society is because by calling everything 'political correctness gone mad', it ultimately gives people a reason to cry against political correctness that is here for a very good reason -

The story in the OP is over the top, for sure - But this conflation with political correctness, I feel, only serves to undermine genuine efforts to make our society more polite, in the way PC was meant to be in the first place -

 

[Meow]

The story in the OP is over the top, for sure - But this conflation with political correctness, I feel, only serves to undermine genuine efforts to make our society more polite, in the way PC was meant to be in the first place -

Political correctness has not improved anything. In fact, society was generally a more polite and well-mannered place 30 years ago than what it is now despite what Wikipedia or Google might tell you.

We can pat ourselves on the back and pretend we've come such a long way as much as we like, but the truth is that we haven't (slightly lower, if not similar levels of racial/homosexual discrimination aside). As surprising as this may sound, manners, respect, and politeness towards others were all considerably better when I was growing up (1970s-early 80s).

Yes, racial abuse towards other people is clearly unacceptable but OTT political correctness does exist in society.

 

[HappyChappy35]

(assuming you are a white male, apologies if you are not) - Have you ever been offended being called a 'skip' or a 'cracker' - Oh no, please don't remind me about the fact that I have had it sweet for the past couple of centuries while we have oppressed darkies on every continent of the globe....

There is centuries worth of historical background to language - And sure, it's not PC, in my definition of the word of politeness, for abusive or vitirolic language to be directed towards anyone, including white males; but to suggest that racial abuse against white male majorities has the same impact as calling someone with dark skin a 'fellow' is ridiculous -

The reason why I feel the need to define the diffence between political correctness and an over litigious society is because by calling everything 'political correctness gone mad', it ultimately gives people a reason to cry against political correctness that is here for a very good reason -

The story in the OP is over the top, for sure - But this conflation with political correctness, I feel, only serves to undermine genuine efforts to make our society more polite, in the way PC was meant to be in the first place -

The oppression towards Aboriginals that was perpetrated earlier in Australia's history is long gone and has been apologised for. Few minority groups in modern Australian society would have/will grow up bombarded by discrimination and prejudice.

I don't see why 'white bastard', for example, shouldn't cause just as much offense as 'black bastard' would. It is not ridiculous and treating racial abuse towards white people will less weight than racial abuse towards minority groups smacks of double standards to me (read: one set of rules for a particular group and another for others).

As for the second part, I haven't undermined political correctness and do not believe it is a negative thing. I was simply pointing out examples of it that are rather excessive, and that said excessive examples are becoming more commonplace in society.

 

[J_Moore]

P

We can pat ourselves on the back and pretend we've come such a long way as much as we like, but the truth is that we haven't (slightly lower, if not similar levels of racial/homosexual discrimination aside)

Yeah, that is just not true at all.

 

[radiojake]

As surprising as this may sound, manners, respect, and politeness towards others were all considerably better when I was growing up (1970s-early 80s).

That's interesting - Obviously I can't speak from experience (wasn't alive) but one of the doctors at work who has been practicing 40+ years said the idea of the 'good old days' is crap as the amount of bashed wives and guys who had been beaten to a pulp for being homosexual or for being black were a lot hgher back then than what he sees today -

 

[Meow]

That's interesting - Obviously I can't speak from experience (wasn't alive) but one of the doctors at work who has been practicing 40+ years said the idea of the 'good old days' is crap as the amount of bashed wives and guys who had been beaten to a pulp for being homosexual or for being black were a lot hgher back then than what he sees today -

Is that all he bases his conclusions on? Speaking from experience, people are generally ruder, less polite, and less well-mannered than what they were 30-odd years ago.

 

[J_Moore]

Is that all he bases his conclusions on? Speaking from experience, people are generally ruder, less polite, and less well-mannered than what they were 30-odd years ago.

He's speaking anecdotally, so are you.

 

[courtjester]

What's diminished significantly in the last 40-50 years is respect for society's institutions (schools, churches etc). Which wasn't necessarily a bad thing when it happened, considering the way that the institutions treated people. But we now had the 2nd/3rd generation of people with a lack of respect for institutions who are still made to go in to these institutions (esp school) by law and have no real reason to hate the institution, considering it has changed a lot, but are still influenced by their parents/grandparents. It's far more prevalent in lower socio-economic areas.

 

[DJ Dupree]

The whole thing makes my blood boil. I feel like ringing up talkback and just having a rant. That's not an empty threat - I will call up and tell them what I think.

So sick of all these changes, like 'Bah Bah Black sheep' now has to be 'Rainbow sheep' or 'Blue sheep'. Who the **** has ever heard of a blue sheep? I heard during year 12 schoolies week at a school somewhere some of the year 12 boys painted a sheep blue, and it died. So singing about that is actually offensive to me, being a sheep lover. I love chops.

I mean, you just can't do anything anymore without some squeaking little minority group crying foul about it. So sick of it. Once it was offensive to not tolerate other cultures. But now it's not tolerated by minority groups speaking for other cultures to so much as hang tinsel in your window.

Fricking Vegemite has to have 'halal' written on it.

So angry. I'm gonna drive my speedboat overseas with my tinsel, I'm going to stop any festival going on in the country I go to, and on their packets of tabouli balls I'm going to write 'You can eat this no worries mate'. How would that go down?

Oh what's that? Can't do it? Why not?

 

[Caesar]

Why exactly do you have a problem with Vegemite being marked halal? Do you also have a problem with items on restaurant menus being marked vegetarian or gluten free?

 

[DJ Dupree]

It's just written there and it makes my blood boil. I'm not too partial to it,

Vegetarians and gluten intolarants are ok by me because they've always been there, and that's the way it's always been.

 

[J_Moore]

The whole thing makes my blood boil. I feel like ringing up talkback and just having a rant. That's not an empty threat - I will call up and tell them what I think.

So sick of all these changes, like 'Bah Bah Black sheep' now has to be 'Rainbow sheep' or 'Blue sheep'. Who the **** has ever heard of a blue sheep? I heard during year 12 schoolies week at a school somewhere some of the year 12 boys painted a sheep blue, and it died. So singing about that is actually offensive to me, being a sheep lover. I love chops.

I mean, you just can't do anything anymore without some squeaking little minority group crying foul about it. So sick of it. Once it was offensive to not tolerate other cultures. But now it's not tolerated by minority groups speaking for other cultures to so much as hang tinsel in your window.

Fricking Vegemite has to have 'halal' written on it.

So angry. I'm gonna drive my speedboat overseas with my tinsel, I'm going to stop any festival going on in the country I go to, and on their packets of tabouli balls I'm going to write 'You can eat this no worries mate'. How would that go down?

Oh what's that? Can't do it? Why not?

Bro it's "baa baa".