Review Positives Negatives Changes For Next Week

[I'm the Juggernaut]

Guys, White was tagging McGlynn.

I noticed mcGlynn once, White did fine.

Clinton Jones is horrible with the ball in his hands but is a premier tagger.

White is a tool and the only thinh he has. speed, is useless in the wet just like him. His attempted running shot at goal late in the last would have been crucial, but of course he ****ed it up.
Cannot stand him and would not get a game in any other team, bar the GC

 

[UpTheGuts]

Browne will never make it. Slow as a wet weekend and next to useless outside the centre square. Even if he is a trier etc. Check out Vardy - 2 games and looks like he could rotate between ruck and FF. Can roost it, is agile and skilled. Browne is rubbish. Graham is slightly better.

If Browne can somehow become twice as quick, alert, skillful and not crap then I will be a fan. VFL

 

[UpTheGuts]

White is a tool and the only thinh he has. speed, is useless in the wet just like him. His attempted running shot at goal late in the last would have been crucial, but of course he ****ed it up.
Cannot stand him and would not get a game in any other team, bar the GC

White may have done ok on mcglynn, but he was awful when he had the chance to take the ball. First touch footy was nonexistent on Sunday.

That said, he would definitely get a game elsewhere and has the ability to be a gamebreaker

Much prefer him at the G

 

[Spluff]

I'm not a big fan of White and think that he isn't a good enough tagger for his lack of offense to be excusable, but he was far from our worst on the weekend, and in fact was probably in our top half of players. His partners in crime, King and Nahas were both far worse than he was, and hardly got involved all game.

 

[CoggaRules]

I'm not a big fan of White and think that he isn't a good enough tagger for his lack of offense to be excusable, but he was far from our worst on the weekend, and in fact was probably in our top half of players. His partners in crime, King and Nahas were both far worse than he was, and hardly got involved all game.

This needs to stop, we are falling back to the bad old ways of making excuses because players were far from our worst. In the end they might have been far from our worse, but that aint the ****ing problem. The problem is that their whole career has been about debates on what their worth is. If they were worth it, then there wouldnt be a debate. He has served the club well in lean times, tried hard, done all the things required and got a good career in the AFL on his CV. Thanks but next please...the end, time to cull the rest of the bad memories of the past.
What? 7 years? he is in the vets dept now and we still see a someone that imitates a scared rabbit caught in the headlights when he is running with the ball towards goal.
Has he ever practised this part of his game? I would suggest not. Because 7 years in we would not be seeing a professional AFL footballer execute a kick like he it was his first day in auskick..

 

[UpTheGuts]

White is a tool and the only thinh he has. speed, is useless in the wet just like him. His attempted running shot at goal late in the last would have been crucial, but of course he ****ed it up.
Cannot stand him and would not get a game in any other team, bar the GC

White may have done ok on mcglynn, but he was awful when he had the chance to take the ball. First touch footy was nonexistent on Sunday.

That said, he would definitely get a game elsewhere and has the ability to be a gamebreaker

Much prefer him at the G

 

[LuKe2428]

Out: Miller, Astbury, Batchular
In: Post, McGaune, Webberley

 

[UpTheGuts]

Out: Miller, Astbury, Batchular
In: Post, McGaune, Webberley

This makes sense, except Luke's name is McGuane

 

[CoggaRules]

This makes sense, except Luke's name is McGuane

Out: Miler, Bunbury, Spatula
In: Paste, McGaune, Webberley

 

[strauchy]

I have been saying this since the first game he played for us...
in his little career at richmond, he has done absolutely nothing and actually counts as a liability for us on the field.. sounds a bit like shane edwards, yes but he has had ups and downs. The player im actually talking about is MILLER!!

Miller is absolutely pathetic and way past his time. He has completely lost it and even though there were a few bad decisions against him it doesnt matter. He shows no effort and his body is simply too old. I agree with the fact that Hardwick picked him up for some encouragment and experience in the forward line, but actually playing him reminds me of the Terry Wallace era (Cleve Hughes, Shane Morrison, Knobel) those types. Why not develop a young forward with the help of Miller guiding him off the field?
Post? (hoping he can make it) and Griffiths? when is he back??? Surely soon!!?

For some positives though, Vickery seems to be improving and im really liking the look of Farmer, hes still young but is learning to play some solid tough footy. At the beginning of his Richmond career he looked a little shaky but then towards the middle of the year he looked as if he found his feet and last week was a classic example. Keep it up Farmy.
Also sad for Astbury, my mates are close to him so il see how hes doing. wishing him all the best in recovery.

Conca also struggled last week but I dont want to see him out of the side until he plays a few consecutive bad ones.
We are struggling for talls down back and are forced into playing Deledio their all the time! Yes hes a terrific footballer but he isnt the right match up for a Buddy Franklin or Goodes.. we need the likes of Moore/Thursfield to come in so deledio can be released on a wing or the midfield, and put him down back switching with Houli/Grigg

Wouldnt mind seeing Webberley come in..if hes been playing well in the reserves why not? Miller is horrible

 

[MightyTiger]

I have been saying this since the first game he played for us...
in his little career at richmond, he has done absolutely nothing and actually counts as a liability for us on the field.. sounds a bit like shane edwards, yes but he has had ups and downs. The player im actually talking about is MILLER!!

Miller is absolutely pathetic and way past his time. He has completely lost it and even though there were a few bad decisions against him it doesnt matter. He shows no effort and his body is simply too old. I agree with the fact that Hardwick picked him up for some encouragment and experience in the forward line, but actually playing him reminds me of the Terry Wallace era (Cleve Hughes, Shane Morrison, Knobel) those types. Why not develop a young forward with the help of Miller guiding him off the field?
Post? (hoping he can make it) and Griffiths? when is he back??? Surely soon!!?

For some positives though, Vickery seems to be improving and im really liking the look of Farmer, hes still young but is learning to play some solid tough footy. At the beginning of his Richmond career he looked a little shaky but then towards the middle of the year he looked as if he found his feet and last week was a classic example. Keep it up Farmy.
Also sad for Astbury, my mates are close to him so il see how hes doing. wishing him all the best in recovery.

Conca also struggled last week but I dont want to see him out of the side until he plays a few consecutive bad ones.
We are struggling for talls down back and are forced into playing Deledio their all the time! Yes hes a terrific footballer but he isnt the right match up for a Buddy Franklin or Goodes.. we need the likes of Moore/Thursfield to come in so deledio can be released on a wing or the midfield, and put him down back switching with Houli/Grigg

Wouldnt mind seeing Webberley come in..if hes been playing well in the reserves why not? Miller is horrible

Not sure what world you have been living in but Thursfield has been injured for most of the year and Moore is out for the season with a hip injury, and if the rumours are to be believed he will be forced into a early retirement.

And the only player Miller is keeping out is Griffiths, and unless you want to force the kid back in early then Griffiths will be heading for an early retirement as well.

Nice rant though.

 

[strauchy]

Not sure what world you have been living in but Thursfield has been injured for most of the year and Moore is out for the season with a hip injury, and if the rumours are to be believed he will be forced into a early retirement.

And the only player Miller is keeping out is Griffiths, and unless you want to force the kid back in early then Griffiths will be heading for an early retirement as well.

Nice rant though.

Ive known they have both been out injured, im just making the point that we need some defenders and cant be using Deledio as a key position defender.
How careful can we be with Griffiths? he has been playing in the reserves for how many weeks now? im also just making a point that he is actually fit and should be back soon. They're footballers mate, does he need a bandaid too? ye he might end his career lol

Im just saying we need him to come in for miller, even if he stands and does nothing he will be more productive

 

[MightyTiger]

Ive known they have both been out injured, im just making the point that we need some defenders and cant be using Deledio as a key position defender.
How careful can we be with Griffiths? he has been playing in the reserves for how many weeks now? im also just making a point that he is actually fit and should be back soon. They're footballers mate, does he need a bandaid too? ye he might end his career lol

Im just saying we need him to come in for miller, even if he stands and does nothing he will be more productive

I'm so glad we have professionals taking care of things like this.

So wait let me get this right.

You would prefer Griffiths to do nothing at AFL level, and risk him to get another injury then for him to get game time in the Burgers and build his match fitness up and come in when his body is right?

And you do realize that we have 2 more KPP player injuries in Grimes and Astbury who are out for the year also?

EDIT: Also when the heck was Deledio used as a Key Position Defender?

 

[rammbo]

I'm so glad we have professionals taking care of things like this.

So wait let me get this right.

You would prefer Griffiths to do nothing at AFL level, and risk him to get another injury then for him to get game time in the Burgers and build his match fitness up and come in when his body is right?

And you do realize that we have 2 more KPP player injuries in Grimes and Astbury who are out for the year also?

EDIT: Also when the heck was Deledio used as a Key Position Defender?

If griff is playn a full game in the burgers he should come in for sure it doesnt matter if hes got no form because miller is pathetic anyhow.

 

[MightyTiger]

If griff is playn a full game in the burgers he should come in for sure it doesnt matter if hes got no form because miller is pathetic anyhow.

LoL.

 

[strauchy]

I'm so glad we have professionals taking care of things like this.

So wait let me get this right.

You would prefer Griffiths to do nothing at AFL level, and risk him to get another injury then for him to get game time in the Burgers and build his match fitness up and come in when his body is right?

And you do realize that we have 2 more KPP player injuries in Grimes and Astbury who are out for the year also?

EDIT: Also when the heck was Deledio used as a Key Position Defender?

Im actually laughing at this mate..why would i want him to do 'nothing' In the seniors lol! He has been playing games in the reserves. hes been getting his fitness back..why not use him as a Sub in a REAL match?
and that comment you made about him to risk him get another injury.. omg
watch out, lets drop Martin, Cotch and Riewoldt.. they could get injuries :O anyone can get injured.

ye i do realise we have more out, which is terrible. It's a real shame. Lids was playing on Goodes most of the first quarter and i have seen on several occasions this year where he has gone to the oppositions best forward for a short period of time. Maybe Hardwick is trying to teach Deledio to become more of a defensive player? i dont know. Just for your information, how long were you thinking Griffiths should be knitted in cotton wool in the reserves playing on b-graders

 

[TigerTime88]

The injury comment on Griffiths is ridiculous. He is just as likely to pop a shoulder playing AFL as he is VFL. Stupid to suggest we would ruin his career by playing him now lol.

 

[MightyTiger]

Im actually laughing at this mate..why would i want him to do 'nothing' In the seniors lol! He has been playing games in the reserves. hes been getting his fitness back..why not use him as a Sub in a REAL match?
and that comment you made about him to risk him get another injury.. omg
watch out, lets drop Martin, Cotch and Riewoldt.. they could get injuries :O anyone can get injured.

ye i do realise we have more out, which is terrible. It's a real shame. Lids was playing on Goodes most of the first quarter and i have seen on several occasions this year where he has gone to the oppositions best forward for a short period of time. Maybe Hardwick is trying to teach Deledio to become more of a defensive player? i dont know. Just for your information, how long were you thinking Griffiths should be knitted in cotton wool in the reserves playing on b-graders

Rance actually played on Goodes.

At least those players are MATCH fit, Griffiths isn't, if he comes back into the side after doing his stint in the 2s and re-injures himself then that is bad luck.

But forcing a 200CM CHF who has a history of fragile shoulders back into AFL is just asking for trouble while he isn't fit enough.

And as to the highlighted part, for the injury he is recovering from, and taking into consideration his age and position he would play when in the team, anywhere from 4-8 weeks, he has no fitness base, he had no pre-season he had a shoulder reconstruction, and he needs time, and lots of it.

I suggest you have a read up about Chris Dawes, have a look at when he was drafted, what type of injury he had, and how long it took for him to become a regular player in the Collingwood line up and how Collingwood handled him.

 

[santa claws]

Yes we are, you are naming fringe players who can be replaced by other fringe players.

Jackson and Rance will not be going anywhere for at least another 5 years, Rance has improved immensely over the past year and has been holding down FB without much support from others.

And Dimma thinks Jackson is Elite so he will finish his career at Richmond retiring at the age of 32 with 2 Premiership medallions.

so they are all fringe players yet jackson and rance are so highly rated by yourself. cmon mt you can do better than that all the contradictions.
most of those i mentioned have been Regulars this yr so i dont know where the fringe comment comes from. unless of course you think them fringe players as well as me.

seems you and i think the list full of how does it go oh yeah fringe players, but clearly there are plenty of others around here who think otherwise. seems no matter how much the obvious is pointed out there are those who just cant see. im really glad your one who does. it really is simple isnt it.

oh by the way, if hardwick thinks jackson elite all i can say is get used to mediocrity for the next ten yrs rather than premierships. your not one of those who thinks hardwick has not put a foot wrong are you. surely not such a pragmatist as your good self who can see the obvious so well.

any other comments you made in that post are not worthy of reply.

 

[Barnzy]

White is a tool and the only thinh he has. speed, is useless in the wet just like him. His attempted running shot at goal late in the last would have been crucial, but of course he ****ed it up.
Cannot stand him and would not get a game in any other team, bar the GC

Wouldn't say he's a tool but yeah White ain't much chop.

 

[Oh we're from..]

In - McGuane, Post, Gourdis
Out - Miller, Astbury, Batchelor

Tough call on Miller considering he had to go down back but with the short week and a trip to Brissie, might be worth giving Post another run.

Not sure Gourdis has done enough for a game, but might be a chance to come in.

 

[MightyTiger]

so they are all fringe players yet jackson and rance are so highly rated by yourself. cmon mt you can do better than that all the contradictions.
most of those i mentioned have been Regulars this yr so i dont know where the fringe comment comes from. unless of course you think them fringe players as well as me.

seems you and i think the list full of how does it go oh yeah fringe players, but clearly there are plenty of others around here who think otherwise. seems no matter how much the obvious is pointed out there are those who just cant see. im really glad your one who does. it really is simple isnt it.

oh by the way, if hardwick thinks jackson elite all i can say is get used to mediocrity for the next ten yrs rather than premierships. your not one of those who thinks hardwick has not put a foot wrong are you. surely not such a pragmatist as your good self who can see the obvious so well.

any other comments you made in that post are not worthy of reply.

And at some point during the year have they or have they not been replaced by other Fringe players playing in 2s?

All 3 of Conca, Batchelor and Helbig have played games this year, and if it were not for Injury you could add Derickx.

And early on in the year Contin was earmarked to play some games this year, he had a massive pre season but his Form in the 2s hasn't been to great.

When I talk about fringe players I talk about players who don't upset the team structurally, White, Nahas, Edwards, Farmer, Hislop, Browne, Graham and the list goes on, all these players could be replaced by youngsters if they had good form in the 2s or weren't injured.

Let me ask you this, you name the Fringe players that currently are regulars in the side, and then name the players who COULD replace them that aren't getting games and are playing in the 2s.

I don't understand what more you are expecting from the club, most of our new recruits in the past 2 years have gotten games and have played on a regular basis, more players will be weeded out and more youngsters will be given games.

It takes time to clean out the shit that was sitting on our list from the Wallace years.

And to be quite frank, I'm not to sure what you are debating any more, your whole argument for years was we had to many deficient players on our list and the club has gone a long way into rectifying that in the past 2 years, we've recruited something like 15-20 players in the past 2 years, all of whom have gotten regular games in the seniors at some point.

 

[santa claws]

And at some point during the year have they or have they not been replaced by other Fringe players playing in 2s?

All 3 of Conca, Batchelor and Helbig have played games this year, and if it were not for Injury you could add Derickx.

And early on in the year Contin was earmarked to play some games this year, he had a massive pre season but his Form in the 2s hasn't been to great.

When I talk about fringe players I talk about players who don't upset the team structurally, White, Nahas, Edwards, Farmer, Hislop, Browne, Graham and the list goes on, all these players could be replaced by youngsters if they had good form in the 2s or weren't injured.

Let me ask you this, you name the Fringe players that currently are regulars in the side, and then name the players who COULD replace them that aren't getting games and are playing in the 2s.

I don't understand what more you are expecting from the club, most of our new recruits in the past 2 years have gotten games and have played on a regular basis, more players will be weeded out and more youngsters will be given games.

It takes time to clean out the shit that was sitting on our list from the Wallace years.

And to be quite frank, I'm not to sure what you are debating any more, your whole argument for years was we had to many deficient players on our list and the club has gone a long way into rectifying that in the past 2 years, we've recruited something like 15-20 players in the past 2 years, all of whom have gotten regular games in the seniors at some point.

and here i was thinking a fringe player was someone who cannot command a regular game , or is a fill in when circumstance demands.well blow me down i must be wrong..

your asking me the wrong question. you should be asking who are the regular players who should be demoted to fringe status this is what i go crook about.

whos complaining about kids or kids getting games not me sonny.and i dont consider very young development players fringe players.

and of course im still going crook about the number of deficient players we have on the list 20 odd has been a pretty constant call this yr. and every week im forced to pick a lot of those deficient players because the kids are not ready or havent done enough or we just dont have a player to fill the role.

i dunno what you think structure is or even call it but as a general rule for me two big bodied kpfs and a third tall. two big bodied kpds and a third tall.
two ruckmen. and around these players enough big bodies and good skills to compete.its never ever changed, and its all based on what other very good sides have done , with very slight variations from week to week.

 

[Tiger Titus]

i dunno what you think structure is or even call it but as a general rule for me two big bodied kpfs and a third tall. two big bodied kpds and a third tall.
two ruckmen. and around these players enough big bodies and good skills to compete.its never ever changed, and its all based on what other very good sides have done , with very slight variations from week to week.

Sounds a bit outdated to me Santa. Point out the successful clubs playing 2 genuine ruckmen this year. A team should have 1 ruckman, and 1 flexible swingman (Eg, Renouf/Roughead, Jolly/Brown). The exceptions have been Geelong because Ottens can play anywhere, so they have 2 flexible talls, and Essendon who are struggling. Carlton often play just 1 ruckman.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are being fairly liberal with your definition of "big bodied KPDs" as well. Very few teams have more than a couple of genuine talls down back, unless they are above average with the ball intheir hands (Fletcher, Scarlett).

I'll stick my neck out and say I'm a big fan of Alex Rance, I believe he's going to become our General down back, and he is an exceptional asset to have. His size means he can play tall, and his athleticism means he can play smaller as well. His disposal and decision making are rapidly improving. He is the prototype for a modern defender. I certainly don't see him as a fringe player.

I like when we play with 3 tall forwards, but I am not convinced we need 3 tall defenders every week. I think it depends on the build of our opponent's forward line on any given week. I am certain that a backline with just Grimes and Rance as talls could perform admirably for us in the future, but I concede that we will likely play Astbury as well (with a long term view).

 

[santa claws]

Sounds a bit outdated to me Santa. Point out the successful clubs playing 2 genuine ruckmen this year. A team should have 1 ruckman, and 1 flexible swingman (Eg, Renouf/Roughead, Jolly/Brown). The exceptions have been Geelong because Ottens can play anywhere, so they have 2 flexible talls, and Essendon who are struggling. Carlton often play just 1 ruckman.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are being fairly liberal with your definition of "big bodied KPDs" as well. Very few teams have more than a couple of genuine talls down back, unless they are above average with the ball intheir hands (Fletcher, Scarlett).

I'll stick my neck out and say I'm a big fan of Alex Rance, I believe he's going to become our General down back, and he is an exceptional asset to have. His size means he can play tall, and his athleticism means he can play smaller as well. His disposal and decision making are rapidly improving. He is the prototype for a modern defender. I certainly don't see him as a fringe player.

I like when we play with 3 tall forwards, but I am not convinced we need 3 tall defenders every week. I think it depends on the build of our opponent's forward line on any given week. I am certain that a backline with just Grimes and Rance as talls could perform admirably for us in the future, but I concede that we will likely play Astbury as well (with a long term view).

i wont go back 10 yrs but i reckon you will find a constant with few exceptions for sides making gfs over the last 10 yrs, minimum has been two genuine ruckman i will go back as far as 05.
05 syd jolly/ball v wce gardiner/seaby
06 - syd jolly/doyle v wce cox/seaby
07 - geel king/ottens v pa brogan/lade
08 - geel ottens/blake v haw campbell/renouf
09 - geel ottens/blake v stk king/gardiner
10 - coll - jolly/brown v stk renouf gardiner.

sides this yr who play two ruckmen when fit.
wb hudson/minson/roughhead. ess bellchambers/hille/ryder. wce cox naitanui.
you will find carlton will play kruezer and warnock now that kruezer is fit.
brisbane have not had charman all yr but have played all of leuenberger clarke and mccauley either in tandem or all together.
adelaide have played both jacobs and maric
collingwood who are on top of the ladder play jolly and brown mainly because they dont have another ruckman atm of sufficient quality though i believe a couple of their youngsters a very promising you can bet if one jumps up he will partner jolly.
even gcs play fraser and smith.
hawthorn cant keep a tall player injury free atm but they went out and traded for a ruckman forward in hale to partner one of renouf or bailey.
id lay money that says mcintosh and goldstein play in tandem when mcintosh gets fit.

i dont think to many sides are ignoring second ruckmen at all i think the trend has been towrds playing a genuine ruckman who can play forward and take a grab.and yes some sides have played a tall forward who can pinch hit in the ruck i suppose it depends on what you have on your list.
fremantle without sandilands went with both zac clarke and griffen. whats the bet with bradley showing good form as a forward and freo lacking key forwards bradley stays forward and one of griffen or clarke will partner sandilands when he comes back.

to put it simply most sides structure up 3/3/ 2 that is three tall defenders 3 tall forwards and two ruckmen. it seems if there is a variation its two tall forwards with a ruckman forward as the third tall. so it goes 3/2/2

as for defensive talls last yr the wb structured up consistently down back with lake williams morris and hargrave all over 190cm and all except hargrave big bodied.

the premiers have a very tall backline n brown and reid are both 195cm brown in particular big bodied throw in maxwell at 193 goldsack at 193 who played in the replay harry o is 188 toovey 189 and the runt of the litter is shaw at 184.
i wont keep on going thru teams but have a look for yourself you may be surprised.
sydneys named backline on the weekend went
richards 193/92 lrt 195/95 grundy 192/101 johnson 193 keneally 190 and mattner 189 and it makes for a bloody tall backline.
as i said go look for yourself you may be surprised.