Premership only if

[Big Red is back]

We cannot win a flag in the next 5 years unless our drafting improves dramatically. All the sides which are presently looking and winning the 08 flag being the Dogs, Cats and Hawks all have had huge success with drafting selections from 10 to 50.

We simply have not identified a star from outside pick 1 or 2 in the last 5 years and until we find 3 or 4 very good players we are going to lack the depth to be a really good threat.

Our recent post pick 1/2 selections include a number of potentially ok AFL players but no potential stars.

- Grigg , looks ok but no star
- Russell, I have offically given up on him, to many mistakes, not a natural footballer, I am shocked he wasted a first round pick on him. From day 1 never looked a natural player.
- Browne , seems to lack skill is ok
- Armfield, potentially the best but need to see more
- Hampson, understand he was a speculative pick but in the end we used a top 20 pick on him and he seems to at best look to be going to be an ok player

I am sure others can add to the list but the key point is other sides are out drafting us primarily with their 2nd and 3rd round selections and it is killing us

 

[The Grover]

We cannot win a flag in the next 5 years unless our drafting improves dramatically. All the sides which are presently looking and winning the 08 flag being the Dogs, Cats and Hawks all have had huge success with drafting selections from 10 to 50.

We simply have not identified a star from outside pick 1 or 2 in the last 5 years and until we find 3 or 4 very good players we are going to lack the depth to be a really good threat.

Our recent post pick 1/2 selections include a number of potentially ok AFL players but no potential stars.

- Grigg , looks ok but no star
- Russell, I have offically given up on him, to many mistakes, not a natural footballer, I am shocked he wasted a first round pick on him. From day 1 never looked a natural player.
- Browne , seems to lack skill is ok
- Armfield, potentially the best but need to see more
- Hampson, understand he was a speculative pick but in the end we used a top 20 pick on him and he seems to at best look to be going to be an ok player

I am sure others can add to the list but the key point is other sides are out drafting us primarily with their 2nd and 3rd round selections and it is killing us

We have also been unlucky in that the drafts we have had picks in top 5, there hasn't been any standout big guys, so we ended up with.


Walker
Murphy & Kennedy
Gibbs

Compare that to Hawks & Saints

Franklin,Roughead

Kosi,Riewoldt


Luck plays a major part as well.


I think Essendon & Tigers will finish above us, so we may have pick 5 & take Hurley.

 

[Bluebear]

We cannot win a flag in the next 5 years unless our drafting improves dramatically. All the sides which are presently looking and winning the 08 flag being the Dogs, Cats and Hawks all have had huge success with drafting selections from 10 to 50.

Are we not identifying the talent........or have we not developed the talent well enough?

Smpson and Fisher while not superstars, are good AFL players, both pluacked from the stratosphere.

Browne and Armfield look great. How many guys playing under 10 games look that composed?
I've seen plenty of first round picks not look that good.

Jamison looks the goods, he came off the rookie list, as did Thornton. I'd put either of those guys up agaisnt whoever you like in the teams above (not inlcuding F/S selections)

Betts was taken in the PSD as a new player.

Austin continues to develop, and in his second year is starting to consistently beat his man at VFL level. Hampson will probably get there to.
Grigg looks to be a confidence player. He doens't think he belongs out there with Judd and co. When he starts to beleive.......and he has played 18 games.........he has shown some real class.

Players outside the top 10 generally need a strong team to develop in.

I think if you looked back at the first 50 odd games of the players you haven't actually named above, like Mitchell and co, then they would probably not have dominated.

Patience.

Our recruiting has been very good in the last 3-4 years, but the taller timber takes time.

 

[blues4flag]

 

[Big Red is back]

Agreed looks a star...forgot about him.

 

[Silvagnis]

We cannot win a flag in the next 5 years unless our drafting improves dramatically. All the sides which are presently looking and winning the 08 flag being the Dogs, Cats and Hawks all have had huge success with drafting selections from 10 to 50.

We simply have not identified a star from outside pick 1 or 2 in the last 5 years and until we find 3 or 4 very good players we are going to lack the depth to be a really good threat.

Our recent post pick 1/2 selections include a number of potentially ok AFL players but no potential stars.

- Grigg , looks ok but no star
- Russell, I have offically given up on him, to many mistakes, not a natural footballer, I am shocked he wasted a first round pick on him. From day 1 never looked a natural player.
- Browne , seems to lack skill is ok
- Armfield, potentially the best but need to see more
- Hampson, understand he was a speculative pick but in the end we used a top 20 pick on him and he seems to at best look to be going to be an ok player

I am sure others can add to the list but the key point is other sides are out drafting us primarily with their 2nd and 3rd round selections and it is killing us

I don't know who you're referring to, but your thread is a total waste of time.

We'd be in the eight and set if we had picked Jetta, Hislop and Davey ahead of Hampson, Grigg and Austin.

Drafting isn't a sprint, but a marathon because you don't expect them to be stars in their first two years, but show signs they can play and have talent. Hampson is a ruckman and will take three years like Kreuzer to put on the size needed to compete at the highest level.

David Hille is the perfect example of this.

Hawthorn have had success because they traded Thompson, Hay, etc. for draft picks and landed Franklin at pick five.

The Cats drafted most of their stars in the first few rounds of 1999 and 2000 draft and had some luck with the father son rule.

And they brought Ottens across from Richmond and trade Colbert to get more selections.

We refused to trade Whitnall when we had the chance to get a Hurn, Higgins or Birchall.

Steven Browne is a gun with the way he threw himself in against the Sainti and backed back where angels fear to tread to mark.

He did that twice.

Hartlett just hasn't been able to get his body right for football.

 

[Juddanaught]

Our recructing has been excellent in the last few years we now have an A grade midfield and our backline is coming together. Remember we had the worst backline by far and only an average at best centreline we have fixed that now through recruiting. We lost Kennedy unfortunately in the Judd deal otherwise we would have a CHF but I would rather Judd and so would everyone else. This draft we will be recruiting a forward line, we are not that far away people are forgeting how far we have come.

 

[Crippa#9]

Our recructing has been excellent in the last few years we now have an A grade midfield and our backline is coming together. Remember we had the worst backline by far and only an average at best centreline we have fixed that now through recruiting. We lost Kennedy unfortunately in the Judd deal otherwise we would have a CHF but I would rather Judd and so would everyone else. This draft we will be recruiting a forward line, we are not that far away people are forgeting how far we have come.

spot on.

 

[Pie_squasher]

I find it amazing (and slightly bemusing) all the negative threads as soon as we have a loss. I personally think our recruiting has been better than average in last few years....

Players take time to develop, we have a young list and future is looking promising. I would pose this question : At the start of this year would you have been happy with 7 wins, 8 losses up until now? If the answer is yes then lay off the negative posts for a while!!!!

 

[Bluebear]

I find it amazing (and slightly bemusing) all the negative threads as soon as we have a loss. I personally think our recruiting has been better than average in last few years....

You've been on here for nearly two years, and you still find this amazing?

No surprises that the chorus of the emotional and generally ill informed howls after a loss.

 

[Salaryman]

We cannot win a flag in the next 5 years unless our drafting improves dramatically. All the sides which are presently looking and winning the 08 flag being the Dogs, Cats and Hawks all have had huge success with drafting selections from 10 to 50.

We simply have not identified a star from outside pick 1 or 2 in the last 5 years and until we find 3 or 4 very good players we are going to lack the depth to be a really good threat.

Our recent post pick 1/2 selections include a number of potentially ok AFL players but no potential stars.

- Grigg , looks ok but no star
- Russell, I have offically given up on him, to many mistakes, not a natural footballer, I am shocked he wasted a first round pick on him. From day 1 never looked a natural player.
- Browne , seems to lack skill is ok
- Armfield, potentially the best but need to see more
- Hampson, understand he was a speculative pick but in the end we used a top 20 pick on him and he seems to at best look to be going to be an ok player

I am sure others can add to the list but the key point is other sides are out drafting us primarily with their 2nd and 3rd round selections and it is killing us

 

[The Grover]

I find it amazing (and slightly bemusing) all the negative threads as soon as we have a loss. I personally think our recruiting has been better than average in last few years....

Players take time to develop, we have a young list and future is looking promising. I would pose this question : At the start of this year would you have been happy with 7 wins, 8 losses up until now? If the answer is yes then lay off the negative posts for a while!!!!

You also have to consider it seems the bullants were deplorable on the weekend, therefore it seems there are a lot of players recruited who are not going to make it.

 

[Artie Bucco]

I don't know who you're referring to, but your thread is a total waste of time.

We'd be in the eight and set if we had picked Jetta, Hislop and Davey ahead of Hampson, Grigg and Austin.

Drafting isn't a sprint, but a marathon because you don't expect them to be stars in their first two years, but show signs they can play and have talent. Hampson is a ruckman and will take three years like Kreuzer to put on the size needed to compete at the highest level.

David Hille is the perfect example of this.

Hawthorn have had success because they traded Thompson, Hay, etc. for draft picks and landed Franklin at pick five.

The Cats drafted most of their stars in the first few rounds of 1999 and 2000 draft and had some luck with the father son rule.

And they brought Ottens across from Richmond and trade Colbert to get more selections.

We refused to trade Whitnall when we had the chance to get a Hurn, Higgins or Birchall.

Steven Browne is a gun with the way he threw himself in against the Sainti and backed back where angels fear to tread to mark.

He did that twice.

Hartlett just hasn't been able to get his body right for football.

Quality post...after a loss it seems as though the sky is going to fall in.

Two years ago, West Coast's recruiting and developing was 10 miles in front of anybody else....now they lose Judd and Cousins and their other players are being found out for the spuds they are.

 

[Faz 2000]

Sure, a lot needs to happen over the next 3-4 years for us to seriously compete at the pointy end of the ladder... but a lot WILL happen.

Take a look at Geelong last year (or just about every premiership side)... they're not made up of 20yo superstars. They're made up of ~24-27 year old superstars. We will have ups and downs over the next few years, but every team needs to do that while their core of young talent comes into their prime. Murphy, Walker and Gibbs and many others on our list may look good now, and be exciting prospects, but it will take a few more seasons before they are league-recognised superstars. But several of them WILL get there.

 

[Bluebear]

You also have to consider it seems the bullants were deplorable on the weekend, therefore it seems there are a lot of players recruited who are not going to make it.

You also have to consider that the Bullants ARE NOT the Carlton reserves side.

Their form does not reflect directly on whether we are going well in recruiting or not.

You need to look a bit deeper into who played well, and then see how they go in the seniors before making this judgement.

Blackwell is a classic.

He is a very good VFL player. If you had a bunch of guy like him, in varying positions, you might have a very good VFL team, but none of them will necessarily make good AFL footballers.

Austin has been named in the best for many weeks, Hartlett too since his comeback, Hampson......Hille.........these guys are performing in the Ants despite the TEAM not playing well.

The question is whether they can step up and play well in the Carlton senior side or not.

 

[Pafloyul]

I dare not read the rest of this thread yet because I don't think it will be pretty. They are going to look at some of the details instead of thinking of some of the consequences if you happen to be right.

Without nit-picking Wayne Hughes' selections I will say that despite some successes with it I am somewhat disappointed on how we utilise the rookie draft and later selections in general. For some reason we seem reticent to use late selections on speculative genuine talls. That is funny when you consider taller players can take longer to develop and that talented talls can tend to be harder to 'spot' in lesser teams.

Without naming names I can think of three or four recent tall defenders we could have selected or traded for relativity cheaply who look to be worthwhile editions to their respective sides. Except for a few rare exceptions we seem to have rewarded the players who we have asked to train with us and although it's a great gesture to the kids who have applied themselves, it is hardly the most logical or productive method. If you cannot speculate late in the draft where can you do it?

So it is a reserved agreement from me suffice to say that I also hope I am wrong for what might be brewing this year.

 

[Lance]

I'll put my two bob's worth in here, it looks like HUGHES has failed again in his drafting judgement. The best available pick, Pick No 1, it looks like COTCHIN is going to be a gun. KREUZER is going to be a handey player when he learns more and matures, BUT IS HE GOING TO BE A GUN?

 

[Bluebear]

I dare not read the rest of this thread yet because I don't think it will be pretty. They are going to look at some of the details instead of thinking of some of the consequences if you happen to be right.

Without nit-picking Wayne Hughes' selections I will say that despite some successes with it I am somewhat disappointed on how we utilise the rookie draft and later selections in general. For some reason we seem reticent to use late selections on speculative genuine talls. That is funny when you consider taller players can take longer to develop and that talented talls can tend to be harder to 'spot' in lesser teams.

Without naming names I can think of three or four recent tall defenders we could have selected or traded for relativity cheaply who look to be worthwhile editions to their respective sides. Except for a few rare exceptions we seem to have rewarded the players who we have asked to train with us and although it's a great gesture to the kids who have applied themselves, it is hardly the most logical or productive method. If you cannot speculate late in the draft where can you do it?

So it is a reserved agreement from me suffice to say that I also hope I am wrong for what might be brewing this year.

Are you worried that if you name names, people will punch holes in your arguement?

Here's a name from the rookie list - Jamison, IMO one of the better young defenders to come via that route. Will be better than Thornton (actually almost is now).

Here's another speculative tall - Jacobs.......Aisake.

Some work, some don't.

Name your names or be silent.