Priority Pick

[Blue Thunder]

2 weeks ago this was a hot topic. The AFL had knocked back our most recent submission but we were assessing our legal options.

This board needs to increase the momentum on this issue and continue the fight otherwise when Fraser Brown launches his ticket (or possibly another well known candidate) this board wont stand a chance.

How nice it would be to add another 1st round pick to our selection.

 

[matty_hawk]

more handouts???

**casts out**

 

[Blue Thunder]

more handouts???

**casts out**

I know you must be dissapointed and there is not much to read on the Hawthorn board but you will get over it.

Time heals all wounds, or as they say these days "build a bridge".

 

[JeffDunne]

Exactly what "legal" options does the club have in getting a first round PP this year?

I ask that as a serious question because I keep reading it but I can't see the logic in the argument.

 

[matty_hawk]

I know you must be dissapointed and there is not much to read on the Hawthorn board but you will get over it.

Time heals all wounds, or as they say these days "build a bridge".

actually thats why i posted here. bored and i know you guys get hooked so i thought it'd keep me sane. not dissapointed. the bridge isnt needed there is no water. i like your club, my family goes for u guys. my mates go for u. but like u all take bait.

 

[Blue Thunder]

Exactly what "legal" options does the club have in getting a first round PP this year?

I ask that as a serious question because I keep reading it but I can't see the logic in the argument.

I'm like you JD, I keep hearing talk about it but nothing of detail. I know that one of the board members who is a QC believes that the club is in a position to challenge for it but I dont know on what grounds.

However I do think that if there is any chance that this challenge would be successful we MUST go for it. We need all the positive news we can get at the moment us Blues supporters.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Exactly what "legal" options does the club have in getting a first round PP this year?

I ask that as a serious question because I keep reading it but I can't see the logic in the argument.

They are talking about the same proposal the club put to the AFL re the stripped 2002 PP, only going through the courts. I think they have found a legal grey area in regards to the purpose of the PP, precedents prior and the way the penalties were handed down ... or something to that effect.

I think they should have had more of a case for this year so I don't hold out too much hope.

We are just unlucky to be down the bottom when the AFL was under the most pressure to dispense with PPs and start again, with 2006 the only season that a PP wouldn't be a possibility for anyone.

 

[Blue Thunder]

actually thats why i posted here. bored and i know you guys get hooked so i thought it'd keep me sane. not dissapointed. the bridge isnt needed there is no water. i like your club, my family goes for u guys. my mates go for u. but like u all take bait.

Fair enough, actually my in-laws follow the Hawks. A hot topic between my brother-in-law and myself is the Hawks potential relocation to Tassie, what do you think about it?

 

[JeffDunne]

If we are talking about the lost draft picks then I could see Carlton taking action to claim compensation for loses due to unfair penalties. If successful you could probably wipe out the entire club debt and end up with a bank balance the envy of every team in the competition. I don't see how a court could compensate you with another PP through this sort of action.

As for trying to be compensated with another PP based on the rules changes, I can't see the logic or how a court could intervene and award one this year. Sure you could challenge the AFL's rule changes but it would take months to get such a ruling in what would become a complex case. We might end up having the draft in June next year!

 

[HBF]

2 weeks ago this was a hot topic. The AFL had knocked back our most recent submission but we were assessing our legal options.

This board needs to increase the momentum on this issue and continue the fight otherwise when Fraser Brown launches his ticket (or possibly another well known candidate) this board wont stand a chance.

How nice it would be to add another 1st round pick to our selection.

The AFL Will not change it's stance on this. Our picks will be 1,17,19,35,51 and so on and #1 in the PSD

 

[HBF]

If we are talking about the lost draft picks then I could see Carlton taking action to claim compensation for loses due to unfair penalties. If successful you could probably wipe out the entire club debt and end up with a bank balance the envy of every team in the competition. I don't see how a court could compensate you with another PP through this sort of action.

As for trying to be compensated with another PP, I can't see the logic or how a court could intervene and award one this year. Sure you could challenge the AFL's rule changes but it would take months to get such a ruling in what would become a complex case. We might end up having the draft in June next year!

Do you think this is possible at all JD? Sounds like a civil matter to me mate!

 

[Blue Thunder]

If we are talking about the lost draft picks then I could see Carlton taking action to claim compensation for loses due to unfair penalties. If successful you could probably wipe out the entire club debt and end up with a bank balance the envy of every team in the competition. I don't see how a court could compensate you with another PP through this sort of action.

As for trying to be compensated with another PP based on the rules changes, I can't see the logic or how a court could intervene and award one this year. Sure you could challenge the AFL's rule changes but it would take months to get such a ruling in what would become a complex case. We might end up having the draft in June next year!

I guess it is more hope than anything JD, and when a club is in a position like ours hope means everything.

 

[JeffDunne]

Do you think this is possible at all JD? Sounds like a civil matter to me mate!

Of course it's possible.

In fact, I reckon you'd probably win such a case due the arbitrary nature of how penalties for cap breaches have been handled. What the consequences would be is anyone's guess, but I actually think it's a case that could be sucessfully argued. Trying to quantify the losses would be the difficult part.

 

[Silvagnis]

Too late now.

 

[JeffDunne]

I guess it is more hope than anything JD, and when a club is in a position like ours hope means everything.

You're talking to a St Kilda supporter here.

I've seen worse positions.

 

[matty_hawk]

Fair enough, actually my in-laws follow the Hawks. A hot topic between my brother-in-law and myself is the Hawks potential relocation to Tassie, what do you think about it?

not really a potential relocation. infact the deal has been done so we dont have to relocate in the future. hell tassy cant afford anything, how will they be able to support a footy team. the club would need more finacial support and the roos

 

[Blue Thunder]

You're talking to a St Kilda supporter here.

I've seen worse positions.

Fair point - Future looking good now and good times ahead for the Saints - all the best.

 

[Silvagnis]

You're talking to a St Kilda supporter here.

I've seen worse positions.

I've always wondered what Saints fans think about Carlton's whinging.

 

[matty_hawk]

You're talking to a St Kilda supporter here.

I've seen worse positions.

THATS WHAT SHE SAID!!


























**cough**

 

[XXX KINGS]

Exactly what "legal" options does the club have in getting a first round PP this year?

I ask that as a serious question because I keep reading it but I can't see the logic in the argument.

My thoughts are that by removing a priority pick, a precedent is set which is impossible to uphold. If any other club that year had of been penalised for commiting the exact same crime, there would be no priority pick for them to remove. The fact that we had a priority pick was circumstancial, as a result they shouldn't have been allowed to remove it.

Its like two guys are on a tram and get fined for fair evasion, one has more money in their pocket at the time, so as a result gets fined more, regardless of the fact that they both commited the exact same crime.

I'm not a legal expert by any stretch, however, I would think that if Carlton were to argue something along these lines they would have a remote chance of success.

A lot of people laugh at us for bringing this issue up constantly, the reason we do it is because it cost us a quality player. We need all the quality players we can get and even though someone like Wells or Goddard isn't the difference between us winning a grand final, they would certainly make a bigger difference than someone like Deluca who wouldn't get a game at any other club.

 

[JeffDunne]

My thoughts are that by removing a priority pick, a precedent is set which is impossible to uphold. If any other club that year had of been penalised for commiting the exact same crime, there would be no priority pick for them to remove. The fact that we had a priority pick was circumstancial, as a result they shouldn't have been allowed to remove it.

Its like two guys are on a tram and get fined for fair evasion, one has more money in their pocket at the time, so as a result gets fined more, regardless of the fact that they both commited the exact same crime.

I understand where you are coming from but the extension of that argument is that no two teams could be penalised the same since no two teams ever have the same picks.

Again, I think you could argue the arbitrary nature of how penalties have been applied and claim compensation, I'm just not so sure a court would consider awarding a PP this year as suitable compensation if you managed to win the case.

 

[HBF]

Of course it's possible.

In fact, I reckon you'd probably win such a case due the arbitrary nature of how penalties for cap breaches have been handled. What the consequences would be is anyone's guess, but I actually think it's a case that could be sucessfully argued. Trying to quantify the losses would be the difficult part.

Could you email the club on my behalf. They are run by morons, so they probably haven't even thought of this.