Discussion Prison Bars debate

[acm21]

Although the jumper is good, sanfl-historic (which has changed heaps since its first use) can we leave it be for at least another 12 months (if not longer) it really feels like there is nothing more to be said on the topic.


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Johnny Bananas Collingwood have worn black and white stripes since their inception in 1892, Port adopted black and white 10 years later in 1902, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in terms of who existed first.

I honestly don't give a toss who existed first. The point is Port have a tradition of wearing the bars, so comparing it to Richmond suddenly wearing red sashes is invalid. It really doesn't matter who existed first or how long they've been in the VFL for. Collingwood need to be told to pipe down.

 

[barrackers]

I honestly don't give a toss who existed first. The point is Port have a tradition of wearing the bars, so comparing it to Richmond suddenly wearing red sashes is invalid. It really doesn't matter who existed first or how long they've been in the VFL for. Collingwood need to be told to pipe down.

Thankfully the AFL begs to differ

AFL 2019: Port Adelaide will wear prison bars outfit in two matches for season 2020

Locked in: Port’s prison bars outfit to return for special 2020 events

www.foxsports.com.au

But the club is unable to make the full-time switch in the AFL, given Collingwood already have the claim to wearing the colours, with AFL chief executive officer Gillon McLachlan confirming an agreement had been reached with the two clubs for 2020.

“(It’s) part of the Port Adelaide licensing agreement, they were coming into the competition that had a club with black and white stripes, that was the agreement entered in to and brokered with Collingwood,” he explained on 3AW’s Sportsday.

 

[MKMatty]

Why is there PB's debate outside of the PB debate thread?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Thankfully the AFL begs to differ

How splendid. I blame the AFL more than anyone for coddling Collingwood and catering to their inflated egos.

 

[magpienato]

Carn, its more like Glenelg trying to use this as their jumper, something in the same colours but a differing design.

Awesome template, mind sending it to me over snapchat


On SM-G960U1 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[bomberclifford]

I don’t think there is a good reason for port to use the pb

So what? There doesn't actually need to be "a good reason". We should be able to wear it whenever we choose to. It's part of our history.

 

[parano1a]

We should be able to wear it whenever we choose to. It's part of our history.

It has a great history in the SANFL. You can wear it in the SANFL.

One club has worn black and white vertical stripes in the VFL/AFL since 1897 and so it shall remain (heritage rounds/special occasions aside).

 

[El_Scorcho]

Thankfully the AFL begs to differ

AFL 2019: Port Adelaide will wear prison bars outfit in two matches for season 2020

Locked in: Port’s prison bars outfit to return for special 2020 events

www.foxsports.com.au

Okay, show us the licence agreement then.

There's always a lot of talk about agreements we've apparently entered into at various stages over the last 23 years. I've never seen a copy of one of those agreements. They're just used as a magic wand against us wearing the PBs when they arguably don't even exist and even if they did, would be trivial for the AFL to ignore, just as they have the 4 other times we've worn the guernsey

 

[El_Scorcho]

I don’t think there is a good reason for port to use the pb or picking up any other aspect of the old sanfl side.

Without meaning to be disrespectful, what would you know about it?

And as has been already stated, a good enough reason as any is simply that we want to. Just like in every other major sports league in the world where teams share colours.

 

[El_Scorcho]

It has a great history in the SANFL. You can wear it in the SANFL.

One club has worn black and white vertical stripes in the VFL/AFL since 1897 and so it shall remain (heritage rounds/special occasions aside).

Nobody is threatening Collingwood's right to wear black and white stripes in the AFL.

Can I ask you, honestly, what you feel would happen to Collingwood if Port were allowed to wear the bars regularly, even for every home game?

How would that affect Collingwood?

 

[parano1a]

Can I ask you, honestly, what you feel would happen to Collingwood if Port were allowed to wear the bars regularly, even for every home game?

How would that affect Collingwood?

Black and white vertical stripes is Collingwood's brand and central to the club's identity. If another team was permitted to wear a similar jumper on a regular basis it would dilute the brand. Port was permitted entry to participate in the competition on the basis that it would not infringe upon Collingwood's emblem, colours or jumper design. Like it or not, Port's AFL brand is based around the colour teal.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Black and white vertical stripes is Collingwood's brand and central to the club's identity. If another team was permitted to wear a similar jumper on a regular basis it would dilute the brand. Port was permitted entry to participate in the competition on the basis that it would not infringe upon Collingwood's emblem, colours or jumper design. Like it or not, Port's AFL brand is based around the colour teal.

"it would dilute the brand"

What would that look like in a practical sense. What would the actual real world effects be?

 

[TimothyJ23]

Okay, show us the licence agreement then.

There's always a lot of talk about agreements we've apparently entered into at various stages over the last 23 years. I've never seen a copy of one of those agreements. They're just used as a magic wand against us wearing the PBs when they arguably don't even exist and even if they did, would be trivial for the AFL to ignore, just as they have the 4 other times we've worn the guernsey

I reckon the agreement would be marked commercial in confidence, much like every other one in the game.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I reckon the agreement would be marked commercial in confidence, much like every other one in the game.

I'm happy for everything else to be redacted, but if people are going to keep raising various agreements that we've apparently entered into which prevent us from wearing the prison bars, what do those specific clauses say, and who signed off on them?

This is a question more directed at the PAFC administration than anyone else.

 

[eddiesmith]

I must be in the minority, but I do prefer to turn on a game and actually know whos playing, soccer is a joke in that regard, but given they play in these champions league etc, you cant really have teams with unique identities.

I was watching one of the MOTY contenders the other day, had to check the scoreboard to see who was actually playing in the game as the jumper looked nothing like any of the 18 teams in the AFL. I know everyone just likes to hate Collingwood and Eddie, but I love the fact we have a president who wants to upheld our image. When Collingwood wears their away strip, its still uniquely Collingwood.

If Port Adelaide start wearing Black and White strips every week, suddenly someone who turns over to watch a game and sees B&W stripes doesn't know whos playing until they take a closer look or see the scoreboard, that would be infringing on our brand.

Fact is Port Adelaide agreed to enter the AFL under these conditions, they clearly felt becoming a part of the biggest league in the country was more important than keeping their SANFL colours, a league where Port fans can still see their beloved prison bars every week as they have for the last 107 years.

 

[RossFC]

I must be in the minority, but I do prefer to turn on a game and actually know whos playing

If Port Adelaide start wearing Black and White strips every week, suddenly someone who turns over to watch a game and sees B&W stripes doesn't know whos playing until they take a closer look or see the scoreboard, that would be infringing on our brand.

Port Adelaide's Prison Bars is a different design to Collingwood's black and white stripes. You should be able to tell the difference straight away.

I've never confused Collingwoods jumper with Ports or thought I was watching Port Adelaide vs West Adelaide when I turned on Collingwood vs Essendon.

 

[parano1a]

I've never confused Collingwoods jumper with Ports or thought I was watching Port Adelaide vs West Adelaide when I turned on Collingwood vs Essendon.

Of course you can easily tell the difference as Collingwood v Essendon is a game of the elite national competition usually played in front of 80,000+ at the MCG, Port Adelaide v West Adelaide is a local state-based league played in front of a few thousand at a suburban oval.

Collingwood has no issue with local league teams wearing black and white vertical stripes, as long as its not in AFL level games. This is not just a Collingwood-Port issue either, if any other new club upon entering the competition wanted to wear red & black, yellow & black, red & white, red white & blue, etc. the response would be the same from the incumbent AFL club that has worn those colours in the competition for 100+ years.

 

[parano1a]

"it would dilute the brand"

What would that look like in a practical sense. What would the actual real world effects be?

Try selling chocolate bars wrapped in Cadbury Dairy Milk's trademark shade of purple and let me know how you go...

 

[RossFC]

Of course you can easily tell the difference as Collingwood v Essendon is a game of the elite national competition usually played in front of 80,000+ at the MCG, Port Adelaide v West Adelaide is a local state-based league played in front of a few thousand at a suburban oval.

I can tell the difference because the Prison Bars is a different jumper to Collingwoods black and white stripes. Nothing to do with crowds.

I didn't get confused in 2014 vs Richmond.

 

[parano1a]

I can tell the difference because the Prison Bars is a different jumper to Collingwoods black and white stripes.

Of course a Port Adelaide supporter or hardcore SANFL/footy supporter could tell the difference, the point is that a large proportion of the general public will not be able to. Now if for example, the yoke was changed from black to teal with the black and white pylons below kept as is Port may have an argument that there is sufficient brand variation.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Try selling chocolate bars wrapped in Cadbury Dairy Milk's trademark shade of purple and let me know how you go...

Good example.

Darrell Lea won exactly this legal battle when challenged by Cadbury over their use of purple.

 

[bomberclifford]

Try selling chocolate bars wrapped in Cadbury Dairy Milk's trademark shade of purple and let me know how you go...

Care to point me in the direction of Collingwood's 'trademark shade' of black and white?

 

[RossFC]

Of course a Port Adelaide supporter or hardcore SANFL/footy supporter could tell the difference, the point is that a large proportion of the general public will not be able to. Now if for example, the yoke was changed from black to teal with the black and white pylons below kept as is Port may have an argument that there is sufficient brand variation.

I'd wear a full teal kit vs Collingwood, that's fine. That's the only major clash of the Prison Bars, vs Collingwood.

But if Port Adelaide are playing at Adelaide Oval against Brisbane, nobody on earth should be thinking it's Collingwood wearing the Prison Bars (A different jumper) vs Brisbane at Adelaide Oval. Footy fans can't be that dumb, if someone thinks that, they are trolling.

 

[parano1a]

Care to point me in the direction of Collingwood's 'trademark shade' of black and white?

AFL is a product, just like Coca-Cola. It is in the league's interests to retain sufficient differentiation between the brand identities of its clubs, with a different mascot/nickname and colour palette each. Any official AFL merchandise in black and white is therefore immediately associated with Collingwood, yellow and black with Richmond and so on. Coca-Cola's different soft drink product lines for example (Coca-Cola, Fanta, Sprite, Lift, Kirks etc) are packaged in completely different colour schemes for the same reason - brand differentiation. If Fanta and Sprite were both sold in Orange cans, of course you could still read the label and tell which is which, but looking over a fridge display as a whole the brand identity of both would be diluted.