Proposed Hub Arrangement

[jmac70]

The hub model is disgusting.. what 4-5 mths away from your family.. you have every right to say 'no'.. so you do say 'no' to being treated like a piece of meat.. so the result is no pay?

If you're not against the hub model.. have you yourself given thought to leaving your family behind.. if you do have a partner and kids.. and expecting them to fend for themselves for 4-5 mths?

You have got to be kidding me.

I can’t see the idea getting off the ground. AFL will just have to wait and accept there is a chance the season might be cancelled.

 

[InsanityInc]

I reckon there's another side to this. Where is the bulk of the AFL's income coming from? Broadcast rights, which the AFL has contracted. Sponsorships that the AFL has contracted. If the season doesn't get underway the AFL takes a HUGE haircut. Sponsorships the clubs have contracted. WHERE should the players' getting paid come from? If the AFL and clubs don't get paid, why should the players expect to get paid? Do they want their employer to survive so they can get paid NEXT season?

 

[magpies42]

The hub model is disgusting.. what 4-5 mths away from your family.. you have every right to say 'no'.. so you do say 'no' to being treated like a piece of meat.. so the result is no pay?

If you're not against the hub model.. have you yourself given thought to leaving your family behind.. if you do have a partner and kids.. and expecting them to fend for themselves for 4-5 mths?

You have got to be kidding me.

I don’t understand how this is so disgusting, many people in Australia and around the world have been stood down and are not being paid currently. That’s the way businesses operate. The AFL is no different. So if you aren’t playing, then it’s reasonable that you don’t get paid.

As for myself, I have kids and a family. It would not be my preference, but if it meant I could make money to send my kids to school, not let the mortgage payments bank up of course I would do it. The difficulty will be players that have sick family and the like, in that case you should consider an alternative.

again, nobody is being forced.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Do we need quarantine hubs to restart the season? Why can’t we wait a few more months - we might even eradicate the virus! - to play shorter games over a more concentrated period? No spectators, but rigorous testing of players and club staff. And lots of cleaning! Who cares if the season finishes in December.

Winter would be the prefered time to play the season when people are looking for a distraction from the inclement weather. Not that hubs are the answer.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

I don’t understand how this is so disgusting, many people in Australia and around the world have been stood down and are not being paid currently. That’s the way businesses operate. The AFL is no different. So if you aren’t playing, then it’s reasonable that you don’t get paid.

As for myself, I have kids and a family. It would not be my preference, but if it meant I could make money to send my kids to school, not let the mortgage payments bank up of course I would do it. The difficulty will be players that have sick family and the like, in that case you should consider an alternative.

again, nobody is being forced.

Nobody is being forced.. please.

It is not reasonable at all..

If you can come up with something that is reasonable.. then you can pose the.. 'should players get paid' question if they refuse. I suspect the AFL is sinister enough to come up with the idea knowing full well the players will refuse..

I think you've structured your last 2 replies to cover all bases in your argument.. I don't think you believe half of what you've written. It's so idealistic.. makes it really quite unrealistic.

Even in times of hardship.. it's quite rare to find someone wanting to leave their families behind for 5 mths.. you battle it out here..

 

[Help My Club]

Gimp

Yes it's a tough ask being away from you family for 20 weeks.

I liken

 

[magpies42]

Nobody is being forced.. please.

It is not reasonable at all..

If you can come up with something that is reasonable.. then you can pose the.. 'should players get paid' question if they refuse. I suspect the AFL is sinister enough to come up with the idea knowing full well the players will refuse..

I think you've structured your last 2 replies to cover all bases in your argument.. I don't think you believe half of what you've written. It's so idealistic.. makes it really quite unrealistic.

Even in times of hardship.. it's quite rare to find someone wanting to leave their families behind for 5 mths.. you battle it out here..

How are the Virgin staff doing, how are the small business owners, and the workforce world wide doing without a steady income stream. I really don’t see why AFL players should be treated any differently in all of this. You don’t work, you don’t get paid. Simple. I’m not hedging my bets at all.

All I am proposing is to allow the players to decide. No pay or play as the league determines works best. Simple.

 

[Help My Club]

Gimp

Yes it's a tough ask being away from your family for 20 weeks. We all understand this.

This maybe a poor analogy but I liken being a professional sports person to investing in shares vs risk free term deposits. As a share investor you (or should) understand that there are risks and you accept that as part of the objective of higher returns. Otherwise you stick to term deposits. The players gleefully accept the upside of significantly higher incomes than average in the good times. And now the industry is in difficult times and like the share market you are subject to negative returns. You can't have it both ways - cherry pick the good times but not be exposed to the difficult times.

Again those players who choose not to play - no problem. However the consequence should be no pay - at least in share market parlance, they can't go below zero into negative territory.

 

[jackcass]

How are the Virgin staff doing, how are the small business owners, and the workforce world wide doing without a steady income stream. I really don’t see why AFL players should be treated any differently in all of this. You don’t work, you don’t get paid. Simple. I’m not hedging my bets at all.

All I am proposing is to allow the players to decide. No pay or play as the league determines works best. Simple.

But what your saying is that if they don't play a competitive game each week then they aren't working, but the 120 minutes game time each week is only a small portion of their work. By far the bigger % (say 4-5 full days at the club) is training and recovery, all of which they are (hopefully) still doing insomuch as the lockdown allows.

 

[JB1975]

But what your saying is that if they don't play a competitive game each week then they aren't working, but the 120 minutes game time each week is only a small portion of their work. By far the bigger % (say 4-5 full days at the club) is training and recovery, all of which they are (hopefully) still doing insomuch as the lockdown allows.

This is a simple truth, but one the 'pay them nothing' brigade seem determined to ignore.

 

[Help My Club]

I reckon there's another side to this. Where is the bulk of the AFL's income coming from? Broadcast rights, which the AFL has contracted. Sponsorships that the AFL has contracted. If the season doesn't get underway the AFL takes a HUGE haircut. Sponsorships the clubs have contracted. WHERE should the players' getting paid come from? If the AFL and clubs don't get paid, why should the players expect to get paid? Do they want their employer to survive so they can get paid NEXT season?

If there is no season and therefore arguably no revenue streams, how do the players get paid? Largely by the AFL drawing down on its debt facility and getting nothing in return? That's even worse than debt funding a holiday (vis a vis a productive asset/investment) where you at least have experience and memories.

 

[JB1975]

I wonder, does the 'hubs' idea even exist? Is it real? Is it a genuine proposal?

Ed suggests that the AFLPA are scaremongering, that the 'war cabinet' are hatching a plan and that the suggestion of 20-week hubs is an extreme version of what's on the table. The AFLPA say that the 20-week hubs idea is the only version of a plan they have been given, that if there is some other plan then they would love to see it. And Buckley suggested the other day that he didn't like the hubs plan, but that he hadn't really seen it in any detail.

The lack of clear information about this seems fitting for these uncertain times, but it also seems a bit strange. Is there a plan to get the season started, what are the details of it, and how much of those details are up for negotiation?

I think that the hubs idea (as I understand it) is shitful, but beyond that I'm baffled by what we're actually arguing about.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

If there is no compulsion to join the hub, which there can't be in the circumstances, and half our side consists of guys who wouldn't otherwise get a game, it's got no more validity as a contest than a pre-season game and is a poverty stricken man's version of the real thing. I am not terribly interested in the pros and cons of paying players who choose to opt out. The hub is a stupid idea and a waste of words to discuss in any detail.

 

[Capital Magpie]

If there is no compulsion to join the hub, which there can't be in the circumstances, and half our side consists of guys who wouldn't otherwise get a game, it's got no more validity as a contest than a pre-season game and is a poverty stricken man's version of the real thing. I am not terribly interested in the pros and cons of paying players who choose to opt out. The hub is a stupid idea and a waste of words to discuss in any detail.

Fair, but the mere fact that the NRL look like kick-starting their season with a version of it means we have to contemplate it ourselves, or find a better alternative.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Fair, but the mere fact that the NRL look like kick-starting their season with a version of it means we have to contemplate it ourselves, or find a better alternative.

Have Andrews look at it from afar as well.. then decide? He's an expert at that re.

 

[BringouttheGimp]

How are the Virgin staff doing, how are the small business owners, and the workforce world wide doing without a steady income stream. I really don’t see why AFL players should be treated any differently in all of this. You don’t work, you don’t get paid. Simple. I’m not hedging my bets at all.

All I am proposing is to allow the players to decide. No pay or play as the league determines works best. Simple.

Is the workforce worldwide going on hubs for half the yr?

You can't see how inhumane these hubs are?

 

[BringouttheGimp]

If there is no compulsion to join the hub, which there can't be in the circumstances, and half our side consists of guys who wouldn't otherwise get a game, it's got no more validity as a contest than a pre-season game and is a poverty stricken man's version of the real thing. I am not terribly interested in the pros and cons of paying players who choose to opt out. The hub is a stupid idea and a waste of words to discuss in any detail.

Great way to create rifs between the players.. fancy half the list go.. and half stay home.. not to mention the multitude of problems having players in hubs for 5 mths can create.. some think it's a case of just connecting the dots.. never mind how much and how many times the shit hits the fan.. what happens to those who do go then do find it unsuitable and want to return.. the list goes on and on and on.

Suggests to me it's a rather sinister plot the AFL have got going on there. The hub idea is f horrible.

 

[Ace It Up]

Fair point. If you choose not to play, no pay. But I reckon the likes of senior players such as Dangerfield and Riewoldt who would threaten to stand down, would still expect to be paid. This is in essence the point I'm trying to make.

I do support any player that elects no to go into a hub. At present, I believe the players should be paid a decent % of their pay as technically they are working(from home). If the hub plan takes off, then those playing have resumed full employment and should be paid accordingly. If a player/s elect to not play, then they have elected not to work. No work, no pay. Regardless of who you are (or think you are), surely that is glaringly obvious even to you(them, the players).

 

[sr36]

For me it all depends on how precarious the AFLs financial position is. Can they survive a cancelled season?

 

[Ace It Up]

Great way to create rifs between the players.. fancy half the list go.. and half stay home.. not to mention the multitude of problems having players in hubs for 5 mths can create.. some think it's a case of just connecting the dots.. never mind how much and how many times the shit hits the fan.. what happens to those who do go then do find it unsuitable and want to return.. the list goes on and on and on.

Suggests to me it's a rather sinister plot the AFL have got going on there. The hub idea is f horrible.

I do believe the hub has not been finalised/committed to yet. And the more comments I read, I too was left wondering what thoughts/plan the AFL have on if after a period of time that a player/s decides this hub life is too much and wants out.

 

[TradeDraft]

Talk is now Hubs might not even be needed now

 

[JB1975]

I see the thread is closed but was seeking to respond to Jmac's question.

Happy to do so but I know whatever I say will fall on deaf ears or be viewed as negative McGuire which is not acceptable in these parts. Also any past disagreements are on relatively minor unimportant issues in the scheme of life ie players, coaches etc.

But here goes. Largely speaking I have no issue with big Ed revving up/spruiking to the members to continue to support the club in these difficult times. That is his job and I have no doubt he is genuinely passionate when going about it. Now the references to the homeless and three quarter time are a little nauseating but let's give him the benefit of the doubt and just agree that that's Ed's passion coming through.

However, reference to a recent horrific incident where a young member policeman lost his life is really beyond the pale, particularly within the narrative of the email. I'm sure Ed was well meaning however if he thinks that such comments were appropriate, well that's very concerning and he is way off the mark. And I'm not really sure how anyone could really come to any other conclusion.

I find your post nauseating. I find it small-minded. I can be pretty cynical about Ed and the age of corporate football, but anyone who can't recognise that he speaks with genuine passion about his club obviously doesn't feel that passion themselves.

 

[Ace It Up]

Yes they should get paid.

This hub has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas to ever to come out of the AFL. I know they're desperate to get it up and running again.. but under these circumstances? Really quite shocking. Away from family. Sub standard facilities. Held there against their own free will.

What a f joke.

Those that say players are soft, sooks etc - totally disagree. Those that say they would jump at the chance, easy to say, but I suspect they will never have to encounter this decision/dilemma. The AFL have named a date the hub must start by. No final plan or decision has been made. I am sure before the final proposal is put to the players, many from every club will have had some say/input for a contingency to be in place to ensure that the players can play(and sustain) football to the best of their ability, much like any other season. I have not heard of players being told they shall play in a hub designed season. If we are soon watching live AFL 2020 season games on TV, it will be being played by players who chose to play, of their own free will.

 

[Help My Club]

I find your post nauseating. I find it small-minded. I can be pretty cynical about Ed and the age of corporate football, but anyone who can't recognise that he speaks with genuine passion about his club obviously doesn't feel that passion themselves.

Each to their own of course.

Outside of the realms of Collingwood, I think you would find that most people would view his comments as inappropriate in the context of the email. The well being of a football club pales into insignificance when compared to the recent passing of a person. There is a line and McGuire has crossed it even inadvertently.

 

[jmac70]

Each to their own of course.

Outside of the realms of Collingwood, I think you would find that most people would view his comments as inappropriate in the context of the email. The well being of a football club pales into insignificance when compared to the recent passing of a person. There is a line and McGuire has crossed it even inadvertently.

What a crock of horse shit!